Author Topic: What should children be taught? (History)  (Read 23471 times)

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Offline Colonel Howe

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2014, 03:18:04 am »
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.

This whole belief about our generation being idiots and unprepared to take on the roles of leaders in society... It's... It's just plain incorrect. It is a fact that 99% of people in any society ever were completely inept and utterly unable to make a responsible decision if their life depended on it. This is true today and it will always be true. The thing is, these 99% of people are natural followers. These people are not the ones who rise to positions in government, invent great things in the name of progress, or create great works of art. These are the people who are drafted into the military and die. They do what they're told for the whole life and live their lives poor and unskilled.

Our generation is just like any other - no better and no worse. We will have our great men, our prodigies, our maniacs - this doesn't mean there will be a surplus of any of these. The intelligence of the human race has been increasing consistently with the millennia and we have access to the greatest resources ever available to the average person. To say that this generation is doomed to fail is frankly ridiculous. Sure, many people are uneducated and don't know history, or can't even find their own country on a map, but that's an all time high for the human race. Three hundred years ago 99% of people could expect never to leave their isolated villages a single time in their lives. If they ever left it was to be drafted in the King's army to die a horrible death for a cause they didn't know existed before being called to arms. How could you say this generation is off badly? We have the most potential for smashing success of any generation in human history.

And the thing is, EVERYONE who thinks they're hot shit talks about how bad this generation is. I would think something like 30% of people in the western world have not uttered the words "my gen sucks" or "doomed to failure", or something along those lines. Everyone is thinking the same thing as if they're unique and the only saviors of the human race, but the thing is that simply the fact that so many people agree on the same thing shows that we are set up to achieve the greatest things ever imagined, and probably things that the human mind at this stage in our history cannot even properly comprehend.

Have some optimism - we'll be fine.
While i mostly agree with you and I obviously realize im overreacting. To optimism, i gotta say...
Spoiler
the jews said the same thing before being shoved into death camps cri cri.
[close]

and btw,
Spoiler
i am the savior of the human race, so...like, take that as you will
[close]
Fuck off, Nazi scum

Offline Toffee

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2014, 01:23:48 pm »
I love history (best in my year according to my teacher. Just Bragging to increase my ego :D) and I think that it's a brilliant subject. I agree that a lot of people see it as a boring subject full of dates and facts. In actual fact it can be interesting and help you to learn  lot bout the world we live in today. I also believe that children should learn from the past in order to not repeat the mistakes that have been made as well as to make them proud of their history (obviously where pride is appropriate). The thing about nowadays is that people are more interested in the latest I-phone. Another problem is the way that it is taught. Many teachers give you the facts, get you to write it down and then test you on it. Maybe more kids would get more interested if they have more say in what they are taught. Surveys could be taken or maybe a vote?

Offline joer5835

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2014, 01:33:49 pm »
I'm affraid thats not how it works, usually the government or the school itself set up guidelines at the start of each year what children should be taught. Teachers can manouver a bit with this, but not too much. That's why teachers can't decide for themselfes what periods should be taught.

So yeah, ''these boring facts'' are what the government wants you to know.
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Offline Toffee

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2014, 01:45:39 pm »
It's a shame really. The government should really try to get people more involved in the subject :(

The sad thing is that so many people are so uneducated about it
for example we were watching a video clip in class on the Jacobite rebellion and one of the girls in my glass started here sentence with "So sir, if this was millions of years ago"
I almost died laughing  ;D

Offline Von_Clausewitz

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2014, 03:13:29 am »
I also believe that children should learn from the past in order to not repeat the mistakes that have been made

It is an accepted fact among historians that we do not "learn" from the past. History never repeats itself.  All time periods have had different ways of perceiving the world as we know it, looking back at certain events in the past through how we see the world in the here and now (and trying to learn from them) would be foolish and serves no purpose.

Offline KL4R1N0G4MPR0S

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2014, 10:55:38 am »
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.

This whole belief about our generation being idiots and unprepared to take on the roles of leaders in society... It's... It's just plain incorrect. It is a fact that 99% of people in any society ever were completely inept and utterly unable to make a responsible decision if their life depended on it. This is true today and it will always be true. The thing is, these 99% of people are natural followers. These people are not the ones who rise to positions in government, invent great things in the name of progress, or create great works of art. These are the people who are drafted into the military and die. They do what they're told for the whole life and live their lives poor and unskilled.

Our generation is just like any other - no better and no worse. We will have our great men, our prodigies, our maniacs - this doesn't mean there will be a surplus of any of these. The intelligence of the human race has been increasing consistently with the millennia and we have access to the greatest resources ever available to the average person. To say that this generation is doomed to fail is frankly ridiculous. Sure, many people are uneducated and don't know history, or can't even find their own country on a map, but that's an all time high for the human race. Three hundred years ago 99% of people could expect never to leave their isolated villages a single time in their lives. If they ever left it was to be drafted in the King's army to die a horrible death for a cause they didn't know existed before being called to arms. How could you say this generation is off badly? We have the most potential for smashing success of any generation in human history.

And the thing is, EVERYONE who thinks they're hot shit talks about how bad this generation is. I would think something like 30% of people in the western world have not uttered the words "my gen sucks" or "doomed to failure", or something along those lines. Everyone is thinking the same thing as if they're unique and the only saviors of the human race, but the thing is that simply the fact that so many people agree on the same thing shows that we are set up to achieve the greatest things ever imagined, and probably things that the human mind at this stage in our history cannot even properly comprehend.

Have some optimism - we'll be fine.

+1, finally, a realistic interpretation.

Oh, and also.... Guys, don't be so idealistic. "Not Stimulating", "Bad preparation for life" and "Focused too much on [insert object the lesson focuses too much on]" are just odious bullshit, that D students come up with as an excuse to justify their lack of effort and failure in the academic system.
No one is stopping from learning from other sources, in your own free time, about whatever the fuck you want to learn about (I was reading about Henri Selassie and Abyssinia at the start of the 20th century haha). Face it: School is only about getting you into university; you can bitch about whatever you dislike in a lesson, but one thing is clear: when you find out that you have no offers at Year13/U6/Wtv, and find yourself trying desperately to get into any Uni via UCAS Clearance (UK students), then , well, you kinda failed. The truth. Shouting "OOOOoo why did we learn this" is pointless, as a) the curriculum was designed by professionals at leading universities, who, guess what, are more educated, and intelligent, than you will ever be, and b) they have every right to teach you about your country's history - why are other countries morre important?. So shut up, and study your History, and learn how to excel in the exams (exam technique, practice with past papers, etc). After all, that is what's gonna be seen on your CV in the future, not your insightful remarks on the focus and scope of the educational system.

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Offline Shade

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2014, 07:19:53 pm »
As most people here I also oppose the general opionion of history being boring etc.
But, having to make a statement, the emphasis should lay on teaching history objectively, correctly and as bias free as possible.
What follows is ofcourse to require more than basic repetition of several facts.   
To require the students, in order to achieve good marks, to understand historical backgrounds of certain events or developments in history and make an objective comment or discussion on the topic, is a good way of teaching I believe, but I cannot speak for the UK, in the part of  Germany I live in and in my school (things tend to varie by state and school alot here), at least in the higher grades, it's like this.
Some people already mentioned that the focus should not be on national history, I think it depends  on the country and is ususally not really relevant, it is good to learn more about the history of other countries, but your nationality is an important part of your identity and knowing well about your country's history is of great importance.

I agree with KL4R1N0G4MR0S, even if I wouldn't say it as radically.
You can critizise your education and maybe have to, but don't forget your place and the fact that alot of people who are more educated than you have thought much about putting it the way it is.
I think critizising the "how?" is alot easier than critizising the "what?" in this case.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 07:22:34 pm by Shade »
"Zwei Dinge erfüllen das Gemüt mit immer neuer und zunehmender Bewunderung und Ehrfurcht, je öfter und anhaltender sich das Nachdenken damit beschäftigt: Der gestirnte Himmel über mir und das moralische Gesetz in mir."

- Immanuel Kant

Offline KL4R1N0G4MPR0S

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2014, 08:30:46 pm »
As most people here I also oppose the general opionion of history being boring etc.
But, having to make a statement, the emphasis should lay on teaching history objectively, correctly and as bias free as possible.
What follows is ofcourse to require more than basic repetition of several facts.   
To require the students, in order to achieve good marks, to understand historical backgrounds of certain events or developments in history and make an objective comment or discussion on the topic, is a good way of teaching I believe, but I cannot speak for the UK, in the part of  Germany I live in and in my school (things tend to varie by state and school alot here), at least in the higher grades, it's like this.
Some people already mentioned that the focus should not be on national history, I think it depends  on the country and is ususally not really relevant, it is good to learn more about the history of other countries, but your nationality is an important part of your identity and knowing well about your country's history is of great importance.

I agree with KL4R1N0G4MR0S, even if I wouldn't say it as radically.
You can critizise your education and maybe have to, but don't forget your place and the fact that alot of people who are more educated than you have thought much about putting it the way it is.
I think critizising the "how?" is alot easier than critizising the "what?" in this case.

+1
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Offline Chapston

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2014, 01:05:48 am »
Considering Nipplestockings has cleared most of this up now, I say ''What would you like children to be taught? (History)''


Offline KL4R1N0G4MPR0S

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2014, 01:15:33 am »
Considering Nipplestockings has cleared most of this up now, I say ''What would you like children to be taught? (History)''
Whatever I learned up to Lower Sixth in the UK edu system. Now stop bitching, no-one cares about what your favourite epoch is/was.
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Offline Riddlez

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2014, 10:34:27 am »
History never repeats itself. 

Nothing personal, believe me, please.
But this is seriously the best joke I have ever heard, and this shit is just plain ignorant.
Everything that has been done, has been done before.

In that perspective Arthur Conan Doyle had a nice saying for it (From Sherlock Holmes) "Nothing is ever new, it has all been done before."
I do believe in this, and I think it is most certainly true.
While small details vary, unimportant details, at that, it all has been done before, and will most likely happen again.

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

Offline Toffee

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2014, 12:18:12 pm »
History never repeats itself. 

Nothing personal, believe me, please.
But this is seriously the best joke I have ever heard, and this shit is just plain ignorant.
Everything that has been done, has been done before.

In that perspective Arthur Conan Doyle had a nice saying for it (From Sherlock Holmes) "Nothing is ever new, it has all been done before."
I do believe in this, and I think it is most certainly true.
While small details vary, unimportant details, at that, it all has been done before, and will most likely happen again.

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.
+1 dat shit!

Offline Von_Clausewitz

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 01:41:57 pm »
History never repeats itself. 

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.


What you don't seem to grasp is the fact that nothing ever hapens in the exact same fashion, all historical events differ from one another and therefore are not repeated. Nothing ever happened in the exact same way as before twice. Sure, things might seem similar to eachother in certain ways but that does not mean it repeats itself, ever. But i'd like to see you give proper examples of when a historical event repeated (not closely resembled) itself, if there are any.

Offline Augy

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 01:48:12 pm »
Critical thinking would be a,nice start. Ofcourse there's teachers who stray from what they have to teach and actually try to make students think and ask questions. Mostly you just get shut down if you don't conform.
“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.” -Terence McKenna

Offline KL4R1N0G4MPR0S

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Re: What should children be taught? (History)
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2014, 01:53:45 pm »
Critical thinking would be a,nice start. Ofcourse there's teachers who stray from what they have to teach and actually try to make students think and ask questions. Mostly you just get shut down if you don't conform.
I [presume you have never actually learn the IGCSE/ AS Level History Sullabus
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