I do have to say that while this server is light years better than 15th humans vs bots, that it has amazing and creative scripts/bot types, and it has great admins it has lost something since they made things easier for the defenders. I remember when it first came up and it was hard as hell. We were forming up in little bands, roleplaying, enjoying the challenge. It was so fun getting overrun.
Spoons already answered this complaint and he gave a response that makes perfect sense. Most Humans VS bots players probably aren't looking for a challenge. And i know a few have complained when it did get hard. However, I would counter that the server population has seemed lower as of late, and making it harder would attract alot more veteran players he want a challenge as well as the mindless fun. And i bet besides the few raqequitters, most will appreciate the increased roleplay that is born from the challenge.
I know this is just anecdotal, but maybe the challenge will actually draw players not scare them away. I mean heck when it first got huge it was hard as hell and the numbers were consistent.
Yep, agree with most of this. Too many changes to the standard game are driving players off the server. Watched six games during the early population-building-time this morning.
Just too many player cav made it pointless on some maps - 16 players, 5 of them cav?
Then of 32 bots - 6 flags, 5 musicians - a third of the bots not fighters? Berserkers didn't make any difference as they spent all games chasing player cav. Too many bots that don't fight.
Way too many defence points against 32 bots. Impossible for 2 coms to make any headway.
4 successive bot coms rage quit after trying to get their bots forward to attack. 2 of them were guys ive seen command bots good before. This left nobody commanding bots who just ran around in circles following cav.
Besides the rage quitting coms - All this combined crap led to players on human side getting bored and leaving. Went down to 6 - and 15th went up correspondingly.
On Helms Deep map, 1 player held all bots up by kneeling and stabbing - was all he did the whole game for two rounds in same position - was impossible for coms to get to - so entire 2 round game was pointless - again, coms quit, then most players left shortly after. Admin - there were a couple on at the time - did nothing about it. This happens so often now - its a joke.
Also, it was hard enough with 5 coms if some were not commanding the bots - but now 6? Which means as a com you get maybe 20 bots max now? So if 4 coms are the "I don't know WTF im doing" variety or troll coms, only 40 bots are actively attacking 75 players. There just seems not enough bots now. Too many EZ comments from players that then leave.
I used to bot com a lot on this server - I don't bother now, its just so completely stacked in defenders favour. Players who complain about bot numbers being too high don't realise that being pushed and challenged is what makes good intense games and keeps players on server - all that has gone now, and the players are going too. Which is a damn shame, because for awhile it was bloody good, and really had something.
Magoovian raises good points;
all of the things he has suggested were original characteristics of old humans v bots servers where scripting played little to no part in the game and admins were what drove each server.
Man_vs_Bots_Rebirth is no stranger to this and we underwent the transition from autonomy to scripting after quite a lot of consideration
firstly let me describe the situation we had when we had little to no extra scripting;
our player base was much smaller; on average around 15 with bad days being 0 and good days being 40
we had a manual bot number panel; bot numbers had to be set by admins depending on how they 'felt' the team was coping (x2 and plus a bit was the guideline)
we were a significant underdog; 15th at that time regularly had 4 to 6 times our numbers (being the underdog changes the playerbase - you get more experienced and more involved players on a lower pop server)
we had few maps; the maps were known well by the admins and player base but offered little variation
player base; the old server certainly had a much more 'banterous' player base that was both better at the game and willing to cooperate more
However we have now moved to a more automated model of server without which we wouldn't have anywhere near the numbers we do now - that much is for certain;
the automated bot number adjuster means that players can fluctuate through the day and night and still have vaguely balanced bot numbers
we also have more admins which means that there is more time spent monitoring the coms and general player base
the scripts;
pirate hats
heal station
flag bearers, musicians
berserkers
grenades
horses spawned at troughs
map specifics - eg. helms deep elevator
individual admin uniforms
admin panel shortcuts; (such as 2.5x bots and 50 bot instawave)these have for sure meant that the game has been revitalised for many players and i believe they are the biggest reason we overtook the 15th
However i wonder if the concerns Magoovian raises are simply a symptom of having a
larger player base;
let me explain
when you have 10 or so players on a server on a medium sized map there is no way for all ten to spread themselves evenly to defend particular choke points - and the opposing bots have more places where a charge will result in a breakthrough. On the other end of the spectrum when you have 100 players no point is left undefended, everywhere is covered and so the attacking bots find it more difficult to enter through one point (and communication and coordination for botcoms becomes more difficult the more of them there are)
essentially gameplay doesn't scale up - the constant fluctuations in power at low player numbers where bot charges to the flag and human charges to the bots are common only arise from the smaller numbers. its the law of large numbers;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbersthe decrease in the rp and such isn't necessarily the fault of admins or the new game mechanics - its just a bit of maths.
and we have realised that there is less variation; this is the very reason we have all these extra scripts;
the berserkers mean that bot charges are more difficult to stop - they introduce yet another variable to make things more random
the admin tools such as the 50 bot wave mean that admins have more power to twist and change the course of a gamei personally think the server is as good as it has ever been - all we need is for people to get involved, get RPing and help the admins when they do try to liven up the game for you
despite all of this with so many new introductions to the server; maps, playerbase change ect. there will undoubtably be teething problems and perhaps things that worked in the past won't work now (different maps certainly have different balance points - tonight when i was on; there were 4 consecutive bot wins) - we tread a fine line between proper balance and providing unpredicatable situations. Any objections and suggestions are welcome
yours truly; wombat
