Flying Squirrel Entertainment

Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on May 21, 2017, 04:10:58 pm

Title: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on May 21, 2017, 04:10:58 pm
The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.picasion.com%2Fpic81%2Fd5526bc9839a1a83a310c8a7ba99e0cf.gif&hash=855236d4e1410a8addd7d4bb5a4dd774273bda63)
MnB Experts have conducted a study whether ping can predict combat performance. We used a data set from tropical paradise and concluded that an increase in ping by one unit, is (on average) equivalent to K/D decrease of 0.4%.

You can read the whole study here: https://www.docdroid.net/dbo4V0w/expertsss.pdf.html (https://www.docdroid.net/dbo4V0w/expertsss.pdf.html)

We are open for suggestions.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: bobertini on May 23, 2017, 10:39:53 pm
That referencing is shite. Use harvard next time.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Alator on May 23, 2017, 10:40:55 pm
That referencing is shite. Use havard next time.

Harvard* At least get the name right you poorly educated scrub!
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: AeroNinja on May 23, 2017, 10:41:15 pm
fuck mathematics
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: bobertini on May 23, 2017, 10:42:55 pm
That referencing is shite. Use harvard next time.

Harvard* At least get the name right you poorly educated scrub!

At least quote the truth, you poor educated scrub!
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on May 24, 2017, 10:05:02 am
tropical paradise seemsgood
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: SpicyDwarf on May 29, 2017, 01:14:46 am
Imagine doing your dissertation on this
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Piercee on May 29, 2017, 01:15:37 am
12th | SpicyDwarf 🐍: sceience
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Duuze on May 29, 2017, 01:20:12 am
NW science
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on May 29, 2017, 09:38:34 am
Now, consider this:

So the data wasw collected from the Tropical Paradise server. TP is hosted in Europe. That means that non-europeans were by far the largest group of high-pingers (the amount of people with a really shitty connection excluded, they're an insignificant group).

Now, those non-euro's will, for the large majority, be Americans.

You haven't then ruled out another explanation to the performance difference. It might be that the Americans are just not very good at the game? One would have to compare the K/D of TP with a comparable All-american server and see if the K/D's differ.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on May 29, 2017, 10:42:13 am
EU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NA

© fungi
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dark_Knight on May 29, 2017, 12:34:50 pm
i don't know if it's still available, but in old times, with more than 60 ping, you have ability to downblock and kick in the same move.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on May 29, 2017, 04:10:31 pm
You haven't then ruled out another explanation to the performance difference. It might be that the Americans are just not very good at the game? One would have to compare the K/D of TP with a comparable All-american server and see if the K/D's differ.

Good point. This does also mean that my sample is biased in a sense that more Europeans than Americans were included. However, I do not see a compelling reason why Americans should necessarily perform worse than Europeans in this game. I regard it as more likely that "player skill" is distributed rather randomly accross nations. Nonetheless, I agree that there might be some unobserved causality that creates a bias.

Correcting for such an issue might be difficult. We would never find out whether Americans are worse because of high ping, or because of being American (while having a high ping). One would need to bring a group of Americans to Europe in order to test their skills in a low ping environment and vice versa. Unfortunately, Mount and Blade ExpertSSSS are currently too underfunded to conduct a project of this magnitude (https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/avs/avatar_15989_1419603906.png). 

Great inputs so far.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Cazasar on May 29, 2017, 04:37:36 pm
Maybe do the same test on Groupfighting? Results would certainly be interesting.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: bobertini on May 29, 2017, 04:41:03 pm
Maybe do the same test on Groupfighting? Results would certainly be interesting.

I think the results would depend on skill, perhaps why they chose Tropical Paradise  ::)
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on May 29, 2017, 07:11:37 pm
TP does include a rather wide range of skill, not so much on GF.

I'd say TP has a more average of player skill:  good testing grounds
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Haze on May 30, 2017, 01:54:11 pm
Ping and X Factor.
As as specialist of ping i can say that, i do play with the best ping you can dream of and i did with the worse too (on na servers), yet i have to say something more is involved, an X factor which mainly influence the server reactivity, it always happen  when your really far from the country the server is hosted in, you don't just have 120 ping, the x factor apply too, generally players call it "bad server, laggin", sometime the server just suck then it's not the x factor that provoke the damages but sometime you're  havin quite good pings on it yet still the server got trouble, so what happen exactly there ? We don't know, it's not just a matter of good or bad server, for most player it's all about good or bad server but for example , it can be decisive on how i'm playing especially with chambers or some momentum/timing that can end up a lot more dangerous than usual,  you can feel this factor that change servers mechanics if you're experienced enough, move and feint a bit.

NA vs EU
As for americans better or not that europeans, i know the answer, before i tell you i must say riddlez that comparing eu and na servers data won't bring you anything close to truth.
So as for me i think most of the community is about the same level both EU and NA, for 90% of the people i don't think all that really matters, na noobs equal eu noobs, same goes with mid-skilled people, they are about the same, one way or another as long as your not really focused on your skill (so a good or compet player)  you'll keep being a "no-reliable player" that can die quite easily, napoléonic wars is about situation, what you do at what moment, we all feel like we can ez rape noobs in 1v5, either you are a decent or  a top player on your community, you can do that 1v5 easily but when it's come to people that block and answer precisely, 2 of them is enouh to kill  you easily either your skill is decent, good or top.
So what i want to tell you is that all that bounce a lot, there's a big hole between 90% of the people that mostly play on lb or public servers and the remaining 10%.
1)do you compare competitive communities  ? 2) do you compare overall communities ?

1)10% comp players?
 from my experience, i often watch NA players videos, challonge or play against some, looking how they play, and well NA guys are clearly weaker than EU, your best 1v1 player wouldn't pass any EU 1v1 tournament quarter-final and let's not talk about your groupfighting community, it's even worse, you just don't know how to play groupfighting  ???
Why ? :'(  don't be mad at me, i don't do that to disrepect you at all, thats why (i give some quick theme) : you have way less players/country/regiments in NA comparing to EU,  you don't have developed custom and tactics when its come to groupfighting, not much amount of tournaments , gf teams and competitive players,  you need the most possible of theses to get better or some very rare environment like NBA is.
You got some  great ping differentials, North America is big, that doesn't fit well with internet (Weast Coast, East Coast, Canada vs Mexican,etc..) doesn't give you good conditions to play or to train at european level where we can fight each other with pretty nice differentials of ping that allow us to actually analyze  and discuss it in having a good record of what is actually going on, the ping doesn't alter the game as much as it does in na , all this has given european competitive community a nice and prolific environment for players and teams to develop pushing competitions further.

2)Overall?
there's not really a better community.

I end this post by saying something important,  all this is not about NA being untalented,  you guys have as much potential as EU.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on May 30, 2017, 05:37:17 pm
Ping and X Factor.
As as specialist of ping i can say that, i do play with the best ping you can dream of and i did with the worse too (on na servers), yet i have to say something more is involved, an X factor which mainly influence the server reactivity, it always happen  when your really far from the country the server is hosted in, you don't just have 120 ping, the x factor apply too, generally players call it "bad server, laggin"

A big (N=2000+) multi-server data set in combination with a model, which controlls for every server, might be able to solve this issue (but there remains uncertainty and given the few servers with an active community, it is also impractical).  Furthermore, some public server data set is probably unable to provide valuable results that apply for the competitive scene. So you are right to draw a line between these segments. I totally agree on your NA/EU comparison.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Theodin on May 30, 2017, 06:03:15 pm
Your use of econometric equations delights me
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on May 30, 2017, 06:07:15 pm
i smell a troll
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on May 30, 2017, 07:15:08 pm
About my comments on NA vs EU
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgingesbecray.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F06%2Fmakejoke.gif&hash=f92c96a7e109a2362815cc6d83dfbbfb63ff1420)
[close]
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: bobertini on May 30, 2017, 07:29:10 pm
About my comments on NA vs EU
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgingesbecray.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F06%2Fmakejoke.gif&hash=f92c96a7e109a2362815cc6d83dfbbfb63ff1420)
[close]

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bajiroo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Ffunny-kids-joke-meme.jpg&hash=660cc1af782ed679141070bd25bfadf127d1281e)
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on May 30, 2017, 08:21:56 pm
Spoiler
Ping and X Factor.
As as specialist of ping i can say that, i do play with the best ping you can dream of and i did with the worse too (on na servers), yet i have to say something more is involved, an X factor which mainly influence the server reactivity, it always happen  when your really far from the country the server is hosted in, you don't just have 120 ping, the x factor apply too, generally players call it "bad server, laggin", sometime the server just suck then it's not the x factor that provoke the damages but sometime you're  havin quite good pings on it yet still the server got trouble, so what happen exactly there ? We don't know, it's not just a matter of good or bad server, for most player it's all about good or bad server but for example , it can be decisive on how i'm playing especially with chambers or some momentum/timing that can end up a lot more dangerous than usual,  you can feel this factor that change servers mechanics if you're experienced enough, move and feint a bit.

NA vs EU
As for americans better or not that europeans, i know the answer, before i tell you i must say riddlez that comparing eu and na servers data won't bring you anything close to truth.
So as for me i think most of the community is about the same level both EU and NA, for 90% of the people i don't think all that really matters, na noobs equal eu noobs, same goes with mid-skilled people, they are about the same, one way or another as long as your not really focused on your skill (so a good or compet player)  you'll keep being a "no-reliable player" that can die quite easily, napoléonic wars is about situation, what you do at what moment, we all feel like we can ez rape noobs in 1v5, either you are a decent or  a top player on your community, you can do that 1v5 easily but when it's come to people that block and answer precisely, 2 of them is enouh to kill  you easily either your skill is decent, good or top.
So what i want to tell you is that all that bounce a lot, there's a big hole between 90% of the people that mostly play on lb or public servers and the remaining 10%.
1)do you compare competitive communities  ? 2) do you compare overall communities ?

1)10% comp players?
 from my experience, i often watch NA players videos, challonge or play against some, looking how they play, and well NA guys are clearly weaker than EU, your best 1v1 player wouldn't pass any EU 1v1 tournament quarter-final and let's not talk about your groupfighting community, it's even worse, you just don't know how to play groupfighting  ???
Why ? :'(  don't be mad at me, i don't do that to disrepect you at all, thats why (i give some quick theme) : you have way less players/country/regiments in NA comparing to EU,  you don't have developed custom and tactics when its come to groupfighting, not much amount of tournaments , gf teams and competitive players,  you need the most possible of theses to get better or some very rare environment like NBA is.
You got some  great ping differentials, North America is big, that doesn't fit well with internet (Weast Coast, East Coast, Canada vs Mexican,etc..) doesn't give you good conditions to play or to train at european level where we can fight each other with pretty nice differentials of ping that allow us to actually analyze  and discuss it in having a good record of what is actually going on, the ping doesn't alter the game as much as it does in na , all this has given european competitive community a nice and prolific environment for players and teams to develop pushing competitions further.

2)Overall?
there's not really a better community.

I end this post by saying something important,  all this is not about NA being untalented,  you guys have as much potential as EU.
[close]
That's it. We are having a LAN on a boat
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on June 01, 2017, 12:13:06 pm
I suggest a ship. Try Holland-America Lines.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on June 01, 2017, 12:44:46 pm
I suggest a ship. Try Holland-America Lines.
Nah my guy. We're doing it in a sub so it's a boat.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on June 01, 2017, 01:03:26 pm
Subs don't have internet...
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on June 01, 2017, 01:12:05 pm
Subs don't have internet...
Not yet but they will
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Riddlez on June 01, 2017, 05:48:19 pm
Really... they won't. Unless you attatch a beacon with a wired cable that has a floating comm buoy at the surfcae... otherwise Subs will not have internet.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Havoc on June 01, 2017, 10:05:56 pm
First, this post makes me happy.

Second, I've noticed that high ping or low ping doesn't particularly make a difference in how well you play. Having consistent ping is far more important as skilled players can adjust their timing accordingly to the ping they're playing with. Example: Colonys22, consistent 90 ping and a top fragger in groupfights.

Third, NA is best NW, let's do a LAN!
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on June 01, 2017, 11:33:15 pm
Really... they won't. Unless you attatch a beacon with a wired cable that has a floating comm buoy at the surfcae... otherwise Subs will not have internet.
Who said we would submerge the sub? I wouldn't want to be trapped in a metal tube with me let alone some of the mouth breathers in NW
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Bob_The_Drunken_Villager on June 02, 2017, 12:31:58 am
Second, I've noticed that high ping or low ping doesn't particularly make a difference in how well you play. Having consistent ping is far more important as skilled players can adjust their timing accordingly to the ping they're playing with. Example: Colonys22, consistent 90 ping and a top fragger in groupfights.

I've noticed the same thing actually. That's probably why my NA Gf K/D was at a time (~1 month, as I used to play on the NA gf 2~3 years ago) higher than my K/D on the european Gf.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Knightmare on June 12, 2017, 04:02:13 am
I play with 150+ ping on EU servers and it isn't really that bad to be honest.
On NA it can get around to 225-275 and the only bad part is the attack delay.
On top of that kicking and blocking is ez this way
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Dark_Knight on June 12, 2017, 12:23:48 pm
ping sucks  >:(
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on June 15, 2017, 10:02:08 am
13 ping is useless
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Phillyz on July 07, 2017, 05:09:43 pm
Ping spikes... :'(
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Suns on July 08, 2017, 03:34:28 am
100 ping is a .2 second delay, it adds up and makes quite the difference.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: USMC_Vicious on August 15, 2017, 12:18:26 am
Now, consider this:

So the data wasw collected from the Tropical Paradise server. TP is hosted in Europe. That means that non-europeans were by far the largest group of high-pingers (the amount of people with a really shitty connection excluded, they're an insignificant group).

Now, those non-euro's will, for the large majority, be Americans.

You haven't then ruled out another explanation to the performance difference. It might be that the Americans are just not very good at the game? One would have to compare the K/D of TP with a comparable All-american server and see if the K/D's differ.

https://i.imgur.com/a/vEpzF

I top frag all the time on TP lol even with shit ping the skill level on there is shitty
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: junedragon on August 16, 2017, 03:44:11 pm
Now, consider this:

So the data wasw collected from the Tropical Paradise server. TP is hosted in Europe. That means that non-europeans were by far the largest group of high-pingers (the amount of people with a really shitty connection excluded, they're an insignificant group).

Now, those non-euro's will, for the large majority, be Americans.

You haven't then ruled out another explanation to the performance difference. It might be that the Americans are just not very good at the game? One would have to compare the K/D of TP with a comparable All-american server and see if the K/D's differ.

https://i.imgur.com/a/vEpzF

I top frag all the time on TP lol even with shit ping the skill level on there is shitty

Exactly lol a solid 80% couldnt block a projected held up stab let alone feints and shit. If you really want to gauge combat performance look at the groupfighting server.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: USMC_Vicious on August 17, 2017, 09:22:49 am
Now, consider this:

So the data wasw collected from the Tropical Paradise server. TP is hosted in Europe. That means that non-europeans were by far the largest group of high-pingers (the amount of people with a really shitty connection excluded, they're an insignificant group).

Now, those non-euro's will, for the large majority, be Americans.

You haven't then ruled out another explanation to the performance difference. It might be that the Americans are just not very good at the game? One would have to compare the K/D of TP with a comparable All-american server and see if the K/D's differ.

https://i.imgur.com/a/vEpzF

I top frag all the time on TP lol even with shit ping the skill level on there is shitty

Exactly lol a solid 80% couldnt block a projected held up stab let alone feints and shit. If you really want to gauge combat performance look at the groupfighting server.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Skipper on December 11, 2017, 02:37:01 am
A few things.

1. Why did you choose Tropical Paradise as the server?

No offence to anyone who regularly plays on there, but they can't fight for shit. As far as most in the community (EU at least) are concerned, the only non-duel, infantry based public server that has any real melee talent is the Groupfighting Server.

I'd estimate that about 80% of all people on Tropical Paradise, at any given time, are incapable of blocking 3 out of 3 basic attacks (no feints or anything involved, just basic attacks). The average person on this server is so incompetent that you could walk up to them, hold down attack for 5 seconds, release the attack and they would still either stand completely still or sideblock. When ever I go on the server (usually when i'm up in the middle of the night, when nobody is on Groupfighting) I tend to set myself challenges such as 'get 25 kills without dying', etc. NOBODY on this forum would have any difficulty dispatching of hordes of players on that server.

When you're that incompetent, ping isn't going to have an impact. When it's a closer match between two people who can fight, however, such as you see on duel servers or Groupfighting, ping is more likely to have an impact because all of the other potential factors leading to death are minimised through sheer ability.



2. Ping does have an impact, but only under the correct conditions.

I can only speak from my own experience. I got the game in 2012 and between then and September of 2016 I was playing with terrible internet. I think i'd come close to having the worse internet out of the active members of the community. Between this period I was finishing secondary school/sixth form and so living with my parents who have the luxury of living in a rural area. As nice as the area is, the infrastructure is severly neglected and so the internet speed was so bad that my download speed was roughly 50kb/s on Steam.

So I spent 4 years on the game with terrible ping. My ping was, on average, around 100 and every few seconds it would spike to 200/250. I was forced to accept these conditions and I managed to cope as well as players with half my ping. I learnt to chamber with this ping and it really wasn't an issue.

In September of 2016 I moved to Uni and so I have spent just over a year with far greater internet. My internet, now, is one of the best in the community. I downloaded the test for PUBG earlier today (just under 20GB) in less than 30 mins. Usually, I have the lowest ping on whichever server I go on (just hovering around 10 ping usually on Groupfighting, on other servers it can be even less, on Teamspeak it is usually about 2).

Because I have gone from one absolute extreme to the other, I have, of course, noticed a difference. Chambering is *so* much easier. It's actually become insanely easy. This includes chambering with fists as well as bayonets. Further, the ability to respond quicker to attacks and to counter much faster does play an impact. Not to mention, feinting is far more precise.

Essentially, all of the flair and style that can be brought into fighting has become much easier to access with lower ping.

On the downside, i've noticed that whilst my ability to attack has improved, my defensive capabilities have actually declined. With so much more emphesis on fancy attacking techniques, I no longer have the patient build up play or the rythmic dueling capabilities that I had before. An example: When faced with multiple opponents, I tended to put much more emphasis on both movement and blocking. I'd use w and spin a lot before blocking, slowly trying to move the opposition into a line of sorts before even considering attacking. Now I do much simpler things that often don't pay off. For example, when facing 2 or 3 opponents, the thing I do most commonly is simply chamber the first person who stabs at me but direct the chamber towards the second person (second hand chamber? Idk what you'd call this). No blocking or movement necessary.

So, for me, ping has made a big difference.

And just to top it off and prove that it genuinely is the ping, and not simply me getting better through experience over the past year, my playing time is ridiculously unproportioned.

Between 2012 and 2016 I spent just under 2,500 hours on the game. Between 2016 and 2017 I have certainly not reached 100 hours and probably haven't even reached 50. No longer running a regiment, plus finally being able to have a real life, mean that I no longer dedicate much time to the game.

One thing I will say, however, is that I am an extreme case. The jump in ping quality, from atrocious to amazing, is not the sort of numbers most people on this thread will be discussing. Naturally, if you are used to terrible ping and suddenly get amazing ping, or visa versa, you are going to feel the difference far more than somewhere in the middle (which is where most people are). My ping got well over 10x better, whilst i'd imagine most people on here are contemplating whether ping getting 2x better or worse makes a difference.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Fwuffy on December 11, 2017, 07:24:20 am
Agree with everything you said Skipper, and yes it's easier to range and (block) chamber with lower ping, and it prompts more initiative / risks.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Knightmare on December 11, 2017, 07:39:40 am
i should be an expert in this
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: ~Midnight~ on December 11, 2017, 03:29:23 pm
i should be an expert in this
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Vincenzo on December 11, 2017, 03:52:40 pm
There are many factors at play here.

Ping, this is the time a packet takes to be send from your pc, to the server, and send back to your pc again. in miliseconds.

Most important for the game to feel smooth is having both the player and the server with a very solid connection, no wifi (very very important!) because the problem is not ping.. the problem is fluctuation in ping.

Lets say you have an average value of 20, it sounds awesome, but if your internet is unstable and it fluctuates +- 10 milliseconds... that is shit. and can create prediction and timing problems for the player and the server. so for sure don't play on wifi, and try to see if you have ping fluctiations by doing a ping to the server your playing on, and see if any ping spikes..
Regulary restarting your router can fix most of these delays, also some switches in your house might be shit, or the router is just bad and you should replace it with a high performance model.

On top of that high fps is important, though with a limit, in my experience don't let your client have a higher fps than 200. Because it can create timing inaccuracies.
The game is mostly CPU limited nowadays, so you can even crank the graphics settings up full, makes no difference anyway, on my laptop i even have 500 fps if I don't limit it :P
But by all means see how your system reacts to the settings.

For the server, it is running on about 111-124 fps depending on intervals at the moment. it is a hardcoded fps limit. and hopefully the server is very fast and not loaded heavily, a full server with a lot of players or bots will run on a lower FPS, because the CPU is loaded.. and thus all things will be affected and register less good. which you probably experience in big events.
Important in this case is having a extremely fast server CPU, single threaded that is, think about like a core i7 at overclocked 5 ghz, that will register great!.


How warband combat works, on click your client sends a message to server, which sends it on to the other players, there is no server side prediction or ping compensation, lower ping player is always on advantage, he can see what the other players are doing faster, and he can faster get a reaction to it to the server, for instance getting a block in just in time, whilst a player with higher ping won't be in time.

The physics engine of warband is running on 0.025 interval, meaning 40 times per second it is doing all physics calculations, for hit detection and much more, in that same interval it is also sending packages,  data gets collected and send off in those intervals.


If you have any questions please ask them.

If you have any suggestions to make the combat better then say so. :)
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: tired on December 11, 2017, 05:41:14 pm

I think ping is huge. I can barely block anything with my 175 ping on EU servers, in fact, I just have to pre-guess a bit on what a player typically does if I'm going to try to block a good player.

It's not that hard to melee on Tropical Paradise, due to the skill level there. But I might go 1-10 on EU Groupfighting, and I can sometimes (rarely) top frag in NA GF.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/3cdd070a15bda0e21e5375482d7baf26.jpg)
In TP

(https://i.gyazo.com/f5c09018ef9627eeb30b8908782e6cfc.jpg)

(https://i.gyazo.com/f6720980ac1622b9ec72c103cc4fb4ff.jpg)

(https://i.gyazo.com/c57a7b92c08c9e3b816d1823dfba2d02.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: ~Midnight~ on December 11, 2017, 06:20:01 pm
I concur with tired. When I get like my usual 30-50 ping on most NA servers on Warband I can perform really well when it comes to melee. Though the moment I switch to EU servers where I can get 85-120+ ping I instantly feel the effects of combat being a lot slower on my end with people going through me or doing a neo matrix movement to get around my block which makes it look like they went through it.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on December 11, 2017, 06:36:07 pm
EU is too hard for u scrubs 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Ledger on December 11, 2017, 06:37:40 pm

How warband combat works, on click your client sends a message to server, which sends it on to the other players, there is no server side prediction or ping compensation, lower ping player is always on advantage, he can see what the other players are doing faster, and he can faster get a reaction to it to the server, for instance getting a block in just in time, whilst a player with higher ping won't be in time.

The physics engine of warband is running on 0.025 interval, meaning 40 times per second it is doing all physics calculations, for hit detection and much more, in that same interval it is also sending packages,  data gets collected and send off in those intervals.


If you have any questions please ask them.

If you have any suggestions to make the combat better then say so. :)

Just to clarify. The client does the calculation thus causing people with lower ping to send / retrieve the information faster resulting in inconsistencies between clients?

Edit : Larger inconsistencies than usual. Compared to server side calculations.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Vincenzo on December 11, 2017, 06:54:56 pm


Just to clarify. The client does the calculation thus causing people with lower ping to send / retrieve the information faster resulting in inconsistencies between clients?

Edit : Larger inconsistencies than usual. Compared to server side calculations.

No all calculations are done on server, the clients only send what they want to the server, and the server checks if it is even possible what they want and does it.

It means that one client that has a much better connection can react much faster, for instance, if one player has 200 ping and the other 10, the player that has 200 ping would only know about an incoming swing  0.1 seconds after the server already started to swing that thing into his face. whilst the player with 10 ping would know about an incoming attack after 0.01 seconds it reached the server.. so he can block it more easy. and the player with high ping could block something on his screen, but his blocking packet takes 0.1 seconds to arrive to the server, and by then the server decided that he is hit already.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Lone on December 16, 2017, 06:06:15 pm
As a player who has a spiking ping more than 50 % of the time, I guess I can say that the main effect is the stability of the ping. Of course you perform better with lower pings, but spiking ping is the worst to happen since you can´t really adapt the time difference.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on December 19, 2017, 01:48:25 am
First of all, I truly appreciate that this discussion is still going on. For I believe that a lot of players
are interested in this topic.

Furthermore, I want to thank you all for your insightful criticism and suggestions.
Vincenzo, your input was especially valuable, because I understand the mechanics much better now.

Updates
Server
Some have suggested that the tropical paradise server is not the best data source. I am happy to announce that we have already
started to collect a new data set, featuring observations from the groupfighting server (We aim at 300+ observations).

Fluctuations
I was always aware that the measured"Ping" in our data set is only a crude snap-shot. Seeing that fluctuations appear to be
much more important than previously suspected, we already discussed some adjustments. Currently, we try to model ping
as a stochastic process and we are also experimenting with certain probabilistic assumptions that we might impose on the point measurements.

Future Outlook
As you can see, we  try to conduct a way more comprehensive study on this issue. However, given that the gf server is not as frequented as the
tropical paradise server and the technical difficulties, this might take a very long time.

Yours truly,
g0ldenroman
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F97nxfq.png&hash=2fcdf1f9961f29260edf337c05b338f1ee8856fc)


 
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Fwuffy on December 19, 2017, 01:53:34 am
dafak
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Piercee on December 19, 2017, 05:19:39 am
As a player who has a spiking ping more than 50 % of the time, I guess I can say that the main effect is the stability of the ping. Of course you perform better with lower pings, but spiking ping is the worst to happen since you can´t really adapt the time difference.

I have it all the time aswell and you have to adjust your playstyle constantly when your ping spikes, can happen mid-chamber. Mid everything and it fucks up the momentum quite hard.
Especially since my ping can go to 1.6k..
Got some vids of me spiking to about 600 mid-fight aswell and the melee just becomes a clown fiesta.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Harford on December 20, 2017, 01:33:38 am
lol 1.6K ping noob

Spoiler
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/541803706141357949/9BBAAD0117D30B697AAC6DE03BEB55171145B1C2/)
[close]

but yea ping is pretty bad nothing to add about what lone and pierce already said
thx cpt obv
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: ~NickCole~ on December 21, 2017, 09:08:32 am
EU is too hard for u scrubs 8) 8) 8)
Ur bad kiddo
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Suns on December 23, 2017, 10:25:55 pm
1v4 on EU gf with 180 ping yawn.
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Piercee on December 24, 2017, 05:11:42 am
which autismos were you fighting
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: Nero_ on December 24, 2017, 10:56:41 am
4 randoms
Title: Re: The Effect of Ping on Combat Performance
Post by: MnB_ExpS_g0ldenroman on October 06, 2019, 08:56:11 pm
Don't worry, we are still working on it!