Cannons on Schooners (Moving ships)- Why not? [Added Poll]

[Artaxias]

First off, I know, people blame the game engine.

Now onto the topic, I think cannons would be a great addition to the schooners, and we could make the schooners either take a certain amount of hits to sink or they must be hit in certain areas.

The question is though, how do we do this? Having moving cannons surely generates too much lag and it must be impossible. However I was messing around seeing what I could do with cannons on ships, and here's what I got what we can do right now. While the ship is moving, a cannon must be limbered to an arty horse, then the cannon will move with the ship fine. If the ship is completely stopped you can unlimber the cannon and fire.

Now, here is where I thought to myself, why can't we limber the cannons to the ships? Even one cannon on each side of the ship (or even one side), is preferable to none. In order to have this work, the cannons must be able to be fired while limbered.

We could also have the cannons automatically unlimber when the boat is stopped and re-limber when it is moving. This way isn't as fun, but as said earlier I think it's preferable to none (at least we can have it in organized events).

This also would only apply to naval cannons (though it almost goes without saying).

Now I'm sure there will be some who will shoot this idea down instantly. Please provide a good, technical reason. Don't dumb it down. These are my thoughts, if anyone else has some ideas or has something outside the box to add, feel free to comment.

**Edit** New Idea
Cannons on ships don't need to be an individual piece, persay, but perhaps the cannon is literally part of the ship model. Then all we need is a load point for the artillery class to use. Now, instead of the cannon being another model moving with the ship, it is literally part of the ship, all one model.

The only things added are the load/fire points. Animations for the cannons such as smoke and pushing the cannon are preferred but not required.

Also, since there is also the issue of ammo moving with the ship, why not have the naval artillery class spawn with some ammo?

***
If you have your own idea, even if you think it won't work, post it! If we all chime in with our ideas it could give FSE a fresh perspective. Though they understand the game best, they still may have simply not thought of an idea. They are only human!

[WhiteEagle]

I agree 100%, would love to see something like this actually happen.

There wouldn't have to be an animation for limbering or unlimbering, and it would be instant (the only reason you do it is to satisfy the game engine so you don't need to wait nor reanimate the cannon).

I'm sure they will come on here and just say "it can't be done" though.

Anyways, cool idea mate

[Maroon]

Sounds like a doable solution. Good thinking mate!

[SeanBeansShako]

It is a pretty interesting idea. Some modder should give it a go and record a video of it.

[Riddlez]

First off, I know, people blame the game engine.

Not just 'people', developpers.

Now I'm sure there will be some who will shoot this idea down instantly. Please provide a good, technical reason. Don't dumb it down. These are my thoughts, if anyone else has some ideas or has something outside the box to add, feel free to comment.

Happy to be of service:

It is just a theory though, I am not sure if the engine actually works this way:


When you have a cannon limbered to a horse, it isn't a cannon, or at least, that's what I like to think.
It looks like a cannon, but it's only texture, and turning wheels...

Once you unlimber it, it becomes as what we speak of is a cannon. Now, it is interactable, and causes the lag.

In short: If you would make a cannon able to fire when limbered to an artillery horse, it will cause just as much lag as it would do unlimbered, only now it's also moving.

Now, apply that to a ship, and I think you may have the proof why it wouldn't work.



If it would work though, it would be awesome.

[Artaxias]

You bring up a valid point, but also triggered another thought of mine. Cannons on ships don't need to be an individual piece, persay, but perhaps the cannon is literally part of the ship model. Then all we need is a load point for the artillery class to use. Now, instead of the cannon being another model moving with the ship, it is literally part of the ship, all one model.

The only things added are the load/fire points. Animations for the cannons such as smoke and pushing the cannon are preferred but not required.

I think this idea is probably more doable than my original one. Anyone else have something to chime in?

**Edit**
If moving ammo is also an issue, have the naval artillery class spawn with it.

OP updated

[WhiteEagle]

First off, I know, people blame the game engine.

Not just 'people', developpers.

Now I'm sure there will be some who will shoot this idea down instantly. Please provide a good, technical reason. Don't dumb it down. These are my thoughts, if anyone else has some ideas or has something outside the box to add, feel free to comment.

Happy to be of service:

It is just a theory though, I am not sure if the engine actually works this way:


When you have a cannon limbered to a horse, it isn't a cannon, or at least, that's what I like to think.
It looks like a cannon, but it's only texture, and turning wheels...

Once you unlimber it, it becomes as what we speak of is a cannon. Now, it is interactable, and causes the lag.

In short: If you would make a cannon able to fire when limbered to an artillery horse, it will cause just as much lag as it would do unlimbered, only now it's also moving.

Now, apply that to a ship, and I think you may have the proof why it wouldn't work.



If it would work though, it would be awesome.

Man, even if we just get cannons that automatically and instantly unlimber when the ship stops we would be happy. It would be useful for bombarding forts on land and such. Then when it gets moving again, they can become limbered objects (no animation required, just can't be fired) until it re-positions and stops.

[Artaxias]

Like WhiteEagle said, I rather have something than nothing.

I really do think my newer idea would work though, as technically ship and cannon are one object, which solves the lag issue. Only other thing you need on the ship would be a point where the cannon part of the ship is that you can load/reload and fire. Even just one cannon on the ship would be amazing!

Also, since we are on the topic of schooners, I think they should be able to take more hits than longboats. They are much bigger and if cannons are added on them they will need more durability to have a fun round.

[Maroon]

When you have a cannon limbered to a horse, it isn't a cannon, or at least, that's what I like to think.
It looks like a cannon, but it's only texture, and turning wheels...

That's where you're wrong, though. An unlimbered cannon theoratically causes this lag because it is made of multiple objects. You have the cannon itself, the firing trigger, and the wheels it stands on. However, as soon as a cannon is limbered, it turns into 3 objects. The cannon itself, attached to the limber thing behind the horse, and the 2 wheels it stands on.
Now, I'm pretty sure that if you place a horse, with a rider, and a limbered cannon behind it adds up to 5 objects. A cannon plus shooter consists of 6 objects (also countng the ammo box), and the shooter isn't even attached to the cannon. If a horse with rider and cannon can stand on a moving ship, why can't a cannon? Sure, it is more prone to lag than a person, but it's doable, I think.

[nilloc93]

just a thought, not sure if i understand this well enough but i'll give it a go.
why not make the whole ship "limberable" so that there is a hold toggle that allows you to stop the ship (taking away the moving issue) and makes the ships guns able to shoot?
is it possible to have multiple cannons on the same object so that they will fire individually? I came up with this thought to cut down on lag, where instead of having the cannon attached to the ship as a separate object (or objects) it could simply be 1 texture with multiple load points.

[Artaxias]

just a thought, not sure if i understand this well enough but i'll give it a go.
why not make the whole ship "limberable" so that there is a hold toggle that allows you to stop the ship (taking away the moving issue) and makes the ships guns able to shoot?
is it possible to have multiple cannons on the same object so that they will fire individually? I came up with this thought to cut down on lag, where instead of having the cannon attached to the ship as a separate object (or objects) it could simply be 1 texture with multiple load points.

An interesting idea, thanks for the input! I think that the cannon's being added and only able to be used while the ship is still is very possible. So now I'm coming up with ideas while the ship is moving.

As you've gotten at, the cannons could all be part of one texture/model with the ship. To cut down on lag, we make some sacrifices on visuals and a bit on the cannon mechanic parts (if necessary). **Edit** You probably wouldn't have to sacrifice the mechanics. We could still have the push cannon just have no animation methinks** This way, there is no need for animation, as I've said before, all there needs to be is a load/fire point for the cannons. Naval artillery guys spawn with ammo, if moving ammo will cause lag, to cut down on lag once again.

Animations and stuff would be great, but I think it is more than worth sacrificing to have a fun game with cannons. If this is a possibility, I think this should be implemented! As well as adding more shots the schooners can take.

I wish I could code!

When you have a cannon limbered to a horse, it isn't a cannon, or at least, that's what I like to think.
It looks like a cannon, but it's only texture, and turning wheels...

That's where you're wrong, though. An unlimbered cannon theoratically causes this lag because it is made of multiple objects. You have the cannon itself, the firing trigger, and the wheels it stands on. However, as soon as a cannon is limbered, it turns into 3 objects. The cannon itself, attached to the limber thing behind the horse, and the 2 wheels it stands on.
Now, I'm pretty sure that if you place a horse, with a rider, and a limbered cannon behind it adds up to 5 objects. A cannon plus shooter consists of 6 objects (also countng the ammo box), and the shooter isn't even attached to the cannon. If a horse with rider and cannon can stand on a moving ship, why can't a cannon? Sure, it is more prone to lag than a person, but it's doable, I think.

Oh that's how it works? Thanks for the information!

[WhiteEagle]

Its definitely doable. Its just a matter of how much time they are willing to put into it. And that's where I think the problem is, they won't be adding anything else...

Let's face it, as nice as the last update was, it was mostly just new skins and a few new boat designs.

[Riddlez]

When you have a cannon limbered to a horse, it isn't a cannon, or at least, that's what I like to think.
It looks like a cannon, but it's only texture, and turning wheels...

That's where you're wrong, though. An unlimbered cannon theoratically causes this lag because it is made of multiple objects. You have the cannon itself, the firing trigger, and the wheels it stands on. However, as soon as a cannon is limbered, it turns into 3 objects. The cannon itself, attached to the limber thing behind the horse, and the 2 wheels it stands on.
Now, I'm pretty sure that if you place a horse, with a rider, and a limbered cannon behind it adds up to 5 objects. A cannon plus shooter consists of 6 objects (also countng the ammo box), and the shooter isn't even attached to the cannon. If a horse with rider and cannon can stand on a moving ship, why can't a cannon? Sure, it is more prone to lag than a person, but it's doable, I think.

Nope, I am quite sure a limbered cannon consists of few parts, and that when unlimbered, the cannon becomes multiple parts.

[Maroon]

Then can you tell me what other parts a cannon would consist of? This is counting a field cannon by the way, which has wheels, not the wall cannons or ship cannons.
A field cannon is made of the body, the trigger, and 2 wheels. A wall cannon (if I may call it that) is made of a body, a trigger, and a base which it moves up and down on.
I can't see how a cannon is made out of more objects.

[Artaxias]

Well, even if the cannon exists of 8 parts, if we all make it one model with the ship with fire/load points that problem no longer exists. Only thing that moves with the ships are the load/fire points.

What I don't understand is that if the ship can hold a bunch of randomly moving players and it's playable, why can't a cannon move with the ship?

**Edit** I just realize I can go into scening mode and see what the cannons are made of. I can't get on the computer until tomorrow, so I'll post the results then.