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The Lounge => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: MagicTeatowel on June 22, 2014, 10:51:39 pm

Title: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: MagicTeatowel on June 22, 2014, 10:51:39 pm
Greetings All!

After watching this discussion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaNLN7Tjf8) that shares the same name as the thread title, I would like to ask you your thoughts on the subject.

The way I feel is that History is largely seen as learning a set of facts and truths in class, and then churning out a carbon copy in an exam with little interpretation skill or originality needed. Furthermore it often perceived as mundane as it largely associated with white men of a certain age with bushy beards and generic WW2 documentaries. This has ultimately led to the conclusion of many students that History is a boring subject, whereas I believe the complete opposite.

To me, history is about firstly, discovering the past with the goal being to find what makes us who we are and why the world is the way it is . . . and secondly to interpret past so we can see what was good, what was bad, learn from our mistakes, and make better decisions in the future. The association with history as a synonym for boring has resulted with less and less people taking it, which is quite sad  :'( (sheds tear). In the first minutes Niall Ferguson himself says that more people take D&T at GCSE than History and more people take psychology at college than History (nothing against you psychologists). This has resulted in some interesting facts.

Nial Ferguson also says in the first few minutes these facts about candidates for a welsh university . . .

In my eyes . . . . everyone walks out of secondary school knowing loads about the Rise of Hitler and the Tudors + nothing else!
(It is also worth noting that this is not the fault of the teachers, they are fantastic, but of the learn-for-the-exam mentality and national curriculum).

If I were to be in charge  ;) it would work like this . . . . 45% on learning the past . . . . . 30% on interpreting the past . . . . . and 25% on skills (critical reasoning, judgements, source analysis etc.) I think 40% home history and 60% foreign history is a good mix.

There would also be equal time spent on ancient, medieval, early modern history with a little bit more emphasis on modern history. There should also be opportunities to specialise in History at school e.g. archaeology. + MOAR DEBATES  :D

So I ask you, A: what do you think about history and the way its taught at your education institution? B: If it could be, how would you improve it?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Mr T on June 22, 2014, 10:56:31 pm
Theres far to much focus of the World Wars in British schools/society.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on June 23, 2014, 12:08:21 am
What we need in the UK is less focus on Empire and the wars, and more focus on world history. So basically the opposite way Gove's going
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: TWking on June 23, 2014, 05:56:19 pm
For me it should be getting people interested in history in the early years.
Schools can not teach students everything. Pre GCSE should be about the fun stuff with skills mingled.
In GCSE students should pick a topic and learn independently, using laptops and books etc- this will sort the historians from the rest. Teaching during GCSE have more focus on skills. Near the end of the year/s there should be some course work on the the students chosen subject.

Giving the students a choice will ensure that they enjoy History(key to success) because in my opinion it is too diverse a subject to be one school subject.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: John Price on June 23, 2014, 06:07:44 pm
I agree, For too much time in school is put into learning about world war 1 and world war 2, When there are many other things we could go into the worlds history, If teachers must focus on wars, Then there is the Crusades, Singoku Jidai and the american civil war which is hardly touched by our school which are truly fascinating.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: AeroNinja on June 23, 2014, 06:08:53 pm
I agree, For too much time in school is put into learning about world war 1 and world war 2, When there are many other things we could go into the worlds history, If teachers must focus on wars, Then there is the Crusades, Singoku Jidai and the american civil war which is hardly touched by our school which are truly fascinating.
<3
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: TWking on June 23, 2014, 09:45:46 pm
I agree, For too much time in school is put into learning about world war 1 and world war 2, When there are many other things we could go into the worlds history, If teachers must focus on wars, Then there is the Crusades, Singoku Jidai and the american civil war which is hardly touched by our school which are truly fascinating.

but even then they barely even touch the war part. It is usually the homefront or how it started/ended (interesting in its own right). That is one of the major factors. People are told that they will learn about world war 2. Instantly they thing about the epic battles, equipment, commander and the ton of footage that they will watch. They are then let down when all we are taught are the "boring" parts
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on June 24, 2014, 02:07:52 am
To be fair, I just did an entire year on the Development of Warfare from 1792 - 1945, Napoleon right through to Hitler, quite a blast I can tell you
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: John Price on June 24, 2014, 02:22:59 am
I agree, For too much time in school is put into learning about world war 1 and world war 2, When there are many other things we could go into the worlds history, If teachers must focus on wars, Then there is the Crusades, Singoku Jidai and the american civil war which is hardly touched by our school which are truly fascinating.

but even then they barely even touch the war part. It is usually the homefront or how it started/ended (interesting in its own right). That is one of the major factors. People are told that they will learn about world war 2. Instantly they thing about the epic battles, equipment, commander and the ton of footage that they will watch. They are then let down when all we are taught are the "boring" parts
Very true, but that proves my point, personally the 1st and 2nd world war was all they taught throughout my years of school, Thats the reason it being boring, Not the fact that people wont learn about the "epic battles", More the fact that we spend 5 years minimum on it, So what would be the harm in learning about things that are actually interesting, the WW's are a major part to our history, but 5 years being told the same thing over and over again? This shows what little imaginations teachers have, just following the code's set to them by the union.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Friedrich on June 24, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
pls can you add to the subject that this is mainly a british discussion?  :P

In german school you learn following:

greek philosphy & olympics - roman empire - medieval society - french revolution 1789-1793 (rarely Glorious Revolution and American War of Independence as foreplay) - Congress of Vienna & European (French & German) Restoration - british & german industrial revolution (sometimes including the British Empire in general) - Otto von Bismarck's diplomacy & forming of the German Empire (Reichsgründung) - Emperor Wilhelm II & causes of World War 1 - WW1 aftermath (including October Revolution) & struggle (Treaty of Versailles) of the first German Republic (Weimarer Republik) - seizure of power of the Nazis (Machtergreifung) - Nazi terror (mainly Holocaust/Shoah) & causes of World War 2 - Germany 1945-1990 (including Cold War & Iron Courtain in Europe) & German Democratic Republic (DDR) - Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany 1990 & German reunification (Wiedervereinigung)

In german classes you do not learn about wars or warfare. More about the causes and reasons of them. You learn about treaties & societies.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on June 24, 2014, 02:26:39 pm
very German focused, would an international slant not be better?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Friedrich on June 24, 2014, 02:41:14 pm
To be fair, you can't talk about world politics between the mid 19th century and the Cold War without talking about Germany. The forming of the German Empire in 1871 is one of the reasons of the imbalance of powers in Europe until 1945, a main cause for WW1 and the main cause for WW2. But yes, more focus on the Russo-Japanese War as foreplay for WW1, Colonial Empires outside British, French & Germany, especially the end of the British & French colonial empires in the aftermath of WW2 or the Japanese & American colonial empires), or the Korean War and its aftermath compared to the german partition would have been nice. But outside the 19th and 20th century, the focus in history classes in germany is allready not in germany. We rarely talk about the Thirty Years' War or Seven Years' War. Maybe sometimes the Peace of Westphalia, but that's it. Main focus is in this time period the French Revolution as the mother over every following revolution.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on June 24, 2014, 03:04:50 pm
Pff. The Batavian Revolution was years earlier.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: The Nutty Pig on June 24, 2014, 03:07:06 pm
There is not really enough time in History classes to focus on a lot. I think that maybe when it comes to GCSE's there should be different types of history that focus on different things, like ancient medicines, governments etc. One thing people forget is that there is a lot more to history then just wars.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Friedrich on June 24, 2014, 03:22:22 pm
Pff. The Batavian Revolution was years earlier.
Errrr... WAT? plz mark irony next time.

There is not really enough time in History classes to focus on a lot. I think that maybe when it comes to GCSE's there should be different types of history that focus on different things, like ancient medicines, governments etc. One thing people forget is that there is a lot more to history then just wars.
But wars produces world politics & treaties (or the other way around). So wars are a part of world politics. It's something different to talk about the causes and reasons of a war or what happened in the war.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on June 24, 2014, 03:29:58 pm
Pff. The Batavian Revolution was years earlier.
Errrr... WAT? plz mark irony next time.

Nah. The Dutch Republic was in an undeclared civil war between 1783 and 1787, with the anti-Orangists (or Patriots, as they called themselves) effectively taking over the country in '87, only to be kicked out by a Prussian intervention. They fled the country and settled in France, where they rather enthusiastically joined the French Revolution which some people claim was 'inspired' by the Batavian Revolution. To be honest, I consider that unlikely, but it's still not true that the first 'anti-monarch' revolution happened in France in 1789.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on June 24, 2014, 04:12:28 pm
The French weren't the first european nation to depose it's king, kill him and declare a republic.

Just look at the English civil War, nuff said. But that is completely offtopic.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Friedrich on June 24, 2014, 04:58:46 pm
The French weren't the first european nation to depose it's king, kill him and declare a republic.

Just look at the English civil War, nuff said. But that is completely offtopic.
Dis.

But these prior revolutions did not really export to europe. French one did, you can't deny that.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on June 24, 2014, 05:07:02 pm
The first revolution involved within the Enlightenment period, then? I dunno. You're right anyway.

No, the American Revolution doesn't count because that wasn't a revolution, at all.

But these prior revolutions did not really export to europe. French one did, you can't deny that.

That's true. It was sorta 'imported' into the Netherlands. The Batavian Republic was declared with the French army at the doorstep of the capital, pretty much.
"Mon ami, we are giving your freedom!" "Aah, thanks, but we already took it yesterday. Have a nice trip back home!".
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Bruin on July 02, 2014, 07:40:11 pm
I just know this from my experience through school. (American standpoint) Also many schools in America have different curriculum so my school might of thought different units and different subjects at different times or did or didn't teach us something another school did. But this is what my High School-Middle School thought me.

1st Grade-7th Grade is very vague all I remember is learning of other nations culture's, religion, Government, and a little bit of Politics.

8th Grade American History- Colonization of America, The Pilgrims, 7 Years War (French & Indian), American Revolution, Lee's Rebellion, and American Civil War.

9th Grade (Freshman)- I took Humanities- Post WWII, Modern, Classical Babylon, Classical Greece, Classical Rome, and Religion.

10th Grade (Sophmore)- Modern European History- I believe we started around 1400's with Absolutism, Protestant Reformation, Italian Renascence, Sale of Indulgences, Martin Luther, Industrialization, Unification of Italy, Franco-Prussian War, Bismark, Kaiser Wilhelm, Unification of Germany, WWI, Propaganda, WWII, Cold War, and then the Establishment of the EU.

11th Grade (Junior) American History- Started around late 1800's after the Civil War (Because we "learned" about the Civil War and Revolutionary War in 8th Grade) then moved up the ladder towards Womens Suffrage, Child Labor, Industrialization with JP Morgan and the Rockefeller's, Texaco, Railway system, Teddy Roosevelt, and then took a break and started learning about Laws, Politics, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other misc. things like that. Then wen't back to WWI (which was mainly about Europe's point of view didn't learn much about the early parts with America) Then the Great depression and the trickle down effect. Then we jumped to Modern Times with learning about Terrorism with the Mujaheddin and al Qaeda; with their roots and how they formed. Then a bit of Osama Bin Laden and his hatred towards the Western World, how he got his money, where did he train and stuff like that. Then moved towards our mistakes in Afghanistan and how we could of and should of gotten Bin Laden at Torah Borra and that we relied on the Afghans and Pakistan's when we shouldn't have. Then talked a little on how we should have went to war with Al Qaeda after the bombing of the USS Cole and the Kenyan Embassy Attack. All within the 90's and how if Bill Clinton wasn't an idiot and worried about his public ego for being cough cheating on his wife we probably could of prevented 9/11. Then we moved down to the 80's with the movements like Women Rights and other things. We ran out of time and didn't get to learn/talk about Vietnam, Korea, or WWII.

12th Grade (Senior) Government- Just talk about the U.S. Government and how we can prevent inflation, checks and balances, and other stuff.

Now I probably left out a lot of things but I think I got a lot down.

But I truly do think majority of American's don't know much about what their history is or the USA history, or are able to point Ukraine out on a map. But I think the school curriculum here does get the job done. Now yes we may be more bias when it come to war like the Civil War because I live in the North; my school is gonna lean more to the Union the rather a southern school is gonna lean more to the Confederacy.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Millander on July 15, 2014, 06:47:49 pm
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 15, 2014, 08:21:39 pm
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Allasaphore on July 16, 2014, 02:41:00 am
Honestly, I believe students should have a moderate understanding of global history and a considerable understanding of their own history so that they might learn from the past and better their world and nation. This is idealistic, of course.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Menelaos on July 17, 2014, 08:08:29 pm
National history is always slanted with a patriotic touch, we don't need to be creating more nationalists in this day and age. If people need history, then they also need more humanities which people here would consider useless.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on July 21, 2014, 07:52:17 pm
National history is always slanted with a patriotic touch, we don't need to be creating more nationalists in this day and age. If people need history, then they also need more humanities which people here would consider useless.

Words of wisdom, you can see that especially in the UK with the increasingly heavy emphasis on "British values" in education, particularly history. Broader humanities are vital, though even these can be subjected to nationalistic tendencies.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Turin Turambar on July 22, 2014, 09:28:03 am
National history is always slanted with a patriotic touch, we don't need to be creating more nationalists in this day and age. If people need history, then they also need more humanities which people here would consider useless.

Words of wisdom, you can see that especially in the UK with the increasingly heavy emphasis on "British values" in education, particularly history. Broader humanities are vital, though even these can be subjected to nationalistic tendencies.
In Germany we have the opposite of that happening. ::)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Augy on July 22, 2014, 10:07:02 am
My high school History teacher kicked me out after the 3rd day and told me to sit in study hall I had an A for the semester. She told me that at 16, I knew more about World History than she did. I had her later for Government class and she gave it a day before doing the same thing.

I certainly am not "gifted". I just put in a lot of effort to learn theory and perspective. Overall, I think she just wasn't prepared for a 16-17yo that read Chomsky on a regular basis.

Most things you learn in life are achieved in an idependent capacity.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Desert Thunda on July 22, 2014, 10:32:42 am
That Hitler was right.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 23, 2014, 06:57:11 pm
That Hitler was right.
Hey man, different strokes for different folks
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on July 23, 2014, 07:25:46 pm
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.

This whole belief about our generation being idiots and unprepared to take on the roles of leaders in society... It's... It's just plain incorrect. It is a fact that 99% of people in any society ever were completely inept and utterly unable to make a responsible decision if their life depended on it. This is true today and it will always be true. The thing is, these 99% of people are natural followers. These people are not the ones who rise to positions in government, invent great things in the name of progress, or create great works of art. These are the people who are drafted into the military and die. They do what they're told for the whole life and live their lives poor and unskilled.

Our generation is just like any other - no better and no worse. We will have our great men, our prodigies, our maniacs - this doesn't mean there will be a surplus of any of these. The intelligence of the human race has been increasing consistently with the millennia and we have access to the greatest resources ever available to the average person. To say that this generation is doomed to fail is frankly ridiculous. Sure, many people are uneducated and don't know history, or can't even find their own country on a map, but that's an all time high for the human race. Three hundred years ago 99% of people could expect never to leave their isolated villages a single time in their lives. If they ever left it was to be drafted in the King's army to die a horrible death for a cause they didn't know existed before being called to arms. How could you say this generation is off badly? We have the most potential for smashing success of any generation in human history.

And the thing is, EVERYONE who thinks they're hot shit talks about how bad this generation is. I would think something like 30% of people in the western world have not uttered the words "my gen sucks" or "doomed to failure", or something along those lines. Everyone is thinking the same thing as if they're unique and the only saviors of the human race, but the thing is that simply the fact that so many people agree on the same thing shows that we are set up to achieve the greatest things ever imagined, and probably things that the human mind at this stage in our history cannot even properly comprehend.

Have some optimism - we'll be fine.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 26, 2014, 03:18:04 am
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.

This whole belief about our generation being idiots and unprepared to take on the roles of leaders in society... It's... It's just plain incorrect. It is a fact that 99% of people in any society ever were completely inept and utterly unable to make a responsible decision if their life depended on it. This is true today and it will always be true. The thing is, these 99% of people are natural followers. These people are not the ones who rise to positions in government, invent great things in the name of progress, or create great works of art. These are the people who are drafted into the military and die. They do what they're told for the whole life and live their lives poor and unskilled.

Our generation is just like any other - no better and no worse. We will have our great men, our prodigies, our maniacs - this doesn't mean there will be a surplus of any of these. The intelligence of the human race has been increasing consistently with the millennia and we have access to the greatest resources ever available to the average person. To say that this generation is doomed to fail is frankly ridiculous. Sure, many people are uneducated and don't know history, or can't even find their own country on a map, but that's an all time high for the human race. Three hundred years ago 99% of people could expect never to leave their isolated villages a single time in their lives. If they ever left it was to be drafted in the King's army to die a horrible death for a cause they didn't know existed before being called to arms. How could you say this generation is off badly? We have the most potential for smashing success of any generation in human history.

And the thing is, EVERYONE who thinks they're hot shit talks about how bad this generation is. I would think something like 30% of people in the western world have not uttered the words "my gen sucks" or "doomed to failure", or something along those lines. Everyone is thinking the same thing as if they're unique and the only saviors of the human race, but the thing is that simply the fact that so many people agree on the same thing shows that we are set up to achieve the greatest things ever imagined, and probably things that the human mind at this stage in our history cannot even properly comprehend.

Have some optimism - we'll be fine.
While i mostly agree with you and I obviously realize im overreacting. To optimism, i gotta say...
Spoiler
the jews said the same thing before being shoved into death camps cri cri.
[close]

and btw,
Spoiler
i am the savior of the human race, so...like, take that as you will
[close]
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on July 30, 2014, 01:23:48 pm
I love history (best in my year according to my teacher. Just Bragging to increase my ego :D) and I think that it's a brilliant subject. I agree that a lot of people see it as a boring subject full of dates and facts. In actual fact it can be interesting and help you to learn  lot bout the world we live in today. I also believe that children should learn from the past in order to not repeat the mistakes that have been made as well as to make them proud of their history (obviously where pride is appropriate). The thing about nowadays is that people are more interested in the latest I-phone. Another problem is the way that it is taught. Many teachers give you the facts, get you to write it down and then test you on it. Maybe more kids would get more interested if they have more say in what they are taught. Surveys could be taken or maybe a vote?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on July 30, 2014, 01:33:49 pm
I'm affraid thats not how it works, usually the government or the school itself set up guidelines at the start of each year what children should be taught. Teachers can manouver a bit with this, but not too much. That's why teachers can't decide for themselfes what periods should be taught.

So yeah, ''these boring facts'' are what the government wants you to know.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on July 30, 2014, 01:45:39 pm
It's a shame really. The government should really try to get people more involved in the subject :(

The sad thing is that so many people are so uneducated about it
for example we were watching a video clip in class on the Jacobite rebellion and one of the girls in my glass started here sentence with "So sir, if this was millions of years ago"
I almost died laughing  ;D
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Von_Clausewitz on July 31, 2014, 03:13:29 am
I also believe that children should learn from the past in order to not repeat the mistakes that have been made

It is an accepted fact among historians that we do not "learn" from the past. History never repeats itself.  All time periods have had different ways of perceiving the world as we know it, looking back at certain events in the past through how we see the world in the here and now (and trying to learn from them) would be foolish and serves no purpose.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 06, 2014, 10:55:38 am
To be honest I cant complain about my high school history classes. Yes its basic and just gives an overview but its effective in giving a general flow to history. To be honest and I doubt many will agree on this but I believe history really isnt all that important in schools. Yes it must be taught but I would rather see more effort go into more practical skills. So what if a good amount of people arent good at history or cant point out Ukerain on a map? Were a completely functioning society without that.
While it is important to learn practical, everyday skills, I would argue having a decent to great knowledge on historical subjects is even more important. Its a cliche but I'll be damned if it isn't true: those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Children are the future (another cliche huehuehue) and they are taking over the future governments and future problems. The majority of my peers (and not to sound smug or euphoric) are complete idiots in history who have paid little attention to the subject. Hell, I have been insulted many times using the American slur "communist" and when I try to explain my ideological differences, it goes over their goddamn head. And these are people who want to be functional members of society. It is an ignorance of past events (such as governmental manipulation, fabricated claims for imperialistic goals) that leads to...sheeple. This allows an easy manipulated people who are, of course, soft targets for any megalomaniac who does know his/her history. I honestly feel if a teacher isn't teaching history to his students in a way that creates some sort a massive passion (anger/sadness--like myself. Or, something on the complete other side on the spectrum--cold, calculated justification for past horrors) then you end up with a mob of neutral, happy little lambs.

But hey, it's just me.

This whole belief about our generation being idiots and unprepared to take on the roles of leaders in society... It's... It's just plain incorrect. It is a fact that 99% of people in any society ever were completely inept and utterly unable to make a responsible decision if their life depended on it. This is true today and it will always be true. The thing is, these 99% of people are natural followers. These people are not the ones who rise to positions in government, invent great things in the name of progress, or create great works of art. These are the people who are drafted into the military and die. They do what they're told for the whole life and live their lives poor and unskilled.

Our generation is just like any other - no better and no worse. We will have our great men, our prodigies, our maniacs - this doesn't mean there will be a surplus of any of these. The intelligence of the human race has been increasing consistently with the millennia and we have access to the greatest resources ever available to the average person. To say that this generation is doomed to fail is frankly ridiculous. Sure, many people are uneducated and don't know history, or can't even find their own country on a map, but that's an all time high for the human race. Three hundred years ago 99% of people could expect never to leave their isolated villages a single time in their lives. If they ever left it was to be drafted in the King's army to die a horrible death for a cause they didn't know existed before being called to arms. How could you say this generation is off badly? We have the most potential for smashing success of any generation in human history.

And the thing is, EVERYONE who thinks they're hot shit talks about how bad this generation is. I would think something like 30% of people in the western world have not uttered the words "my gen sucks" or "doomed to failure", or something along those lines. Everyone is thinking the same thing as if they're unique and the only saviors of the human race, but the thing is that simply the fact that so many people agree on the same thing shows that we are set up to achieve the greatest things ever imagined, and probably things that the human mind at this stage in our history cannot even properly comprehend.

Have some optimism - we'll be fine.

+1, finally, a realistic interpretation.

Oh, and also.... Guys, don't be so idealistic. "Not Stimulating", "Bad preparation for life" and "Focused too much on [insert object the lesson focuses too much on]" are just odious bullshit, that D students come up with as an excuse to justify their lack of effort and failure in the academic system.
No one is stopping from learning from other sources, in your own free time, about whatever the fuck you want to learn about (I was reading about Henri Selassie and Abyssinia at the start of the 20th century haha). Face it: School is only about getting you into university; you can bitch about whatever you dislike in a lesson, but one thing is clear: when you find out that you have no offers at Year13/U6/Wtv, and find yourself trying desperately to get into any Uni via UCAS Clearance (UK students), then , well, you kinda failed. The truth. Shouting "OOOOoo why did we learn this" is pointless, as a) the curriculum was designed by professionals at leading universities, who, guess what, are more educated, and intelligent, than you will ever be, and b) they have every right to teach you about your country's history - why are other countries morre important?. So shut up, and study your History, and learn how to excel in the exams (exam technique, practice with past papers, etc). After all, that is what's gonna be seen on your CV in the future, not your insightful remarks on the focus and scope of the educational system.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shade on August 06, 2014, 07:19:53 pm
As most people here I also oppose the general opionion of history being boring etc.
But, having to make a statement, the emphasis should lay on teaching history objectively, correctly and as bias free as possible.
What follows is ofcourse to require more than basic repetition of several facts.   
To require the students, in order to achieve good marks, to understand historical backgrounds of certain events or developments in history and make an objective comment or discussion on the topic, is a good way of teaching I believe, but I cannot speak for the UK, in the part of  Germany I live in and in my school (things tend to varie by state and school alot here), at least in the higher grades, it's like this.
Some people already mentioned that the focus should not be on national history, I think it depends  on the country and is ususally not really relevant, it is good to learn more about the history of other countries, but your nationality is an important part of your identity and knowing well about your country's history is of great importance.

I agree with KL4R1N0G4MR0S, even if I wouldn't say it as radically.
You can critizise your education and maybe have to, but don't forget your place and the fact that alot of people who are more educated than you have thought much about putting it the way it is.
I think critizising the "how?" is alot easier than critizising the "what?" in this case.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 06, 2014, 08:30:46 pm
As most people here I also oppose the general opionion of history being boring etc.
But, having to make a statement, the emphasis should lay on teaching history objectively, correctly and as bias free as possible.
What follows is ofcourse to require more than basic repetition of several facts.   
To require the students, in order to achieve good marks, to understand historical backgrounds of certain events or developments in history and make an objective comment or discussion on the topic, is a good way of teaching I believe, but I cannot speak for the UK, in the part of  Germany I live in and in my school (things tend to varie by state and school alot here), at least in the higher grades, it's like this.
Some people already mentioned that the focus should not be on national history, I think it depends  on the country and is ususally not really relevant, it is good to learn more about the history of other countries, but your nationality is an important part of your identity and knowing well about your country's history is of great importance.

I agree with KL4R1N0G4MR0S, even if I wouldn't say it as radically.
You can critizise your education and maybe have to, but don't forget your place and the fact that alot of people who are more educated than you have thought much about putting it the way it is.
I think critizising the "how?" is alot easier than critizising the "what?" in this case.

+1
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Chapston on August 20, 2014, 01:05:48 am
Considering Nipplestockings has cleared most of this up now, I say ''What would you like children to be taught? (History)''

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 20, 2014, 01:15:33 am
Considering Nipplestockings has cleared most of this up now, I say ''What would you like children to be taught? (History)''
Whatever I learned up to Lower Sixth in the UK edu system. Now stop bitching, no-one cares about what your favourite epoch is/was.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on August 20, 2014, 10:34:27 am
History never repeats itself. 

Nothing personal, believe me, please.
But this is seriously the best joke I have ever heard, and this shit is just plain ignorant.
Everything that has been done, has been done before.

In that perspective Arthur Conan Doyle had a nice saying for it (From Sherlock Holmes) "Nothing is ever new, it has all been done before."
I do believe in this, and I think it is most certainly true.
While small details vary, unimportant details, at that, it all has been done before, and will most likely happen again.

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on August 20, 2014, 12:18:12 pm
History never repeats itself. 

Nothing personal, believe me, please.
But this is seriously the best joke I have ever heard, and this shit is just plain ignorant.
Everything that has been done, has been done before.

In that perspective Arthur Conan Doyle had a nice saying for it (From Sherlock Holmes) "Nothing is ever new, it has all been done before."
I do believe in this, and I think it is most certainly true.
While small details vary, unimportant details, at that, it all has been done before, and will most likely happen again.

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.
+1 dat shit!
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Von_Clausewitz on August 20, 2014, 01:41:57 pm
History never repeats itself. 

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.


What you don't seem to grasp is the fact that nothing ever hapens in the exact same fashion, all historical events differ from one another and therefore are not repeated. Nothing ever happened in the exact same way as before twice. Sure, things might seem similar to eachother in certain ways but that does not mean it repeats itself, ever. But i'd like to see you give proper examples of when a historical event repeated (not closely resembled) itself, if there are any.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Augy on August 20, 2014, 01:48:12 pm
Critical thinking would be a,nice start. Ofcourse there's teachers who stray from what they have to teach and actually try to make students think and ask questions. Mostly you just get shut down if you don't conform.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 20, 2014, 01:53:45 pm
Critical thinking would be a,nice start. Ofcourse there's teachers who stray from what they have to teach and actually try to make students think and ask questions. Mostly you just get shut down if you don't conform.
I [presume you have never actually learn the IGCSE/ AS Level History Sullabus
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on August 20, 2014, 02:41:45 pm
The more Augy writes about Dutch Education, the more I wonder to what kind of schools he went.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on August 20, 2014, 04:48:03 pm
The more Augy writes about Dutch Education, the more I wonder to what kind of schools he went.

This.

History never repeats itself. 

As I said in another thread, we are living in a time period which closely resembles the interbellum.
History not repearing itself, is just a bad joke.


What you don't seem to grasp is the fact that nothing ever hapens in the exact same fashion, all historical events differ from one another and therefore are not repeated. Nothing ever happened in the exact same way as before twice. Sure, things might seem similar to eachother in certain ways but that does not mean it repeats itself, ever. But i'd like to see you give proper examples of when a historical event repeated (not closely resembled) itself, if there are any.

I understand your point, but I may have discovered where our disagreement lies: We stand by different definitions of repeating.

What I meant, and have said,, though not quite stressed, that the minor details (what I think as minor), are differen. Differences such as the country, the leaders and perhaps even the ideology.

A proper example which I already called was the time we currently live in, and the interbellum (1918-1933).

Problem with this is that you can't really come up with examples when you have to, but do think of plenty when you're doing something completely different.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 20, 2014, 06:41:16 pm
why is everyone from the cesspit that is Dutchland. go back to ur coins, navies, and congo
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Marceaux on August 20, 2014, 07:33:52 pm
Children should be taught to learn for themselves. Form their own ideas and own opinions, but not only about their countrymen but the world. Children should love all races and nationalities without question. To many are raised with bias and negativity towards humans they don't even know.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on August 20, 2014, 07:37:04 pm
Children should be taught to learn for themselves. Form their own ideas and own opinions, but not only about their countrymen but the world. Children should love all races and nationalities without question. To many are raised with bias and negativity towards humans they don't even know.
+1
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on August 20, 2014, 10:55:59 pm
Children should be taught to learn for themselves. Form their own ideas and own opinions, but not only about their countrymen but the world. Children should love all races and nationalities without question. To many are raised with bias and negativity towards humans they don't even know.

I really hope we're only talking about history here.
If we are, which I assume, then I wholehearedly agree.

I, for one, dropped history for I was able to learn all I know by myself. Acual history classes didn't teach me much.
Only politics. God I hate political history.

I wanted military history. Never got that one.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 21, 2014, 12:15:23 am
Children should be taught to learn for themselves. Form their own ideas and own opinions, but not only about their countrymen but the world. Children should love all races and nationalities without question. To many are raised with bias and negativity towards humans they don't even know.

I really hope we're only talking about history here.
If we are, which I assume, then I wholehearedly agree.

I, for one, dropped history for I was able to learn all I know by myself. Acual history classes didn't teach me much.
Only politics. God I hate political history.

I wanted military history. Never got that one.
My school recently created one that I'm taking this year.

Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 21, 2014, 01:08:33 am
Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"

Lol you cant indoctrinate the ideal of "democracy" and "freedom" into the inbreds by just the media, you need to affect their education as well.
I remember Greece had a similiar controversy concerning who the actual propagators and supporters of the ideas behind the 1821 Greek Revolution agaisnt the Ottomans were, and their "true" motives.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2014, 01:15:17 am
Nope. Not biased at all.
I mean we all know that the British were evil, barbaric monsters who liked to shoot the wounded and burn down churches!
I mean we can all learn something from the various Mel Gibson movies out there like the patriot (100% accurate btw.)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 21, 2014, 01:27:48 am
Nope. Not biased at all.
I mean we all know that the British were evil, barbaric monsters who liked to shoot the wounded and burn down churches!
I mean we can all learn something from the various Mel Gibson movies out there like the patriot (100% accurate btw.)
Lol the bad guy in that movie (Tavington? Can't remember his name) was so b@d@$$.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2014, 01:30:04 am
Yeah that was him :D
He was such a dick.
At the end of the day though as much as I loved the film, I couldn't get over the fact that it was completely inaccurate. Being British myself I was really quite offended and the way we were portrayed. It ends up turning into American propoganda..
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Conway on August 21, 2014, 01:42:29 am
Yeah that was him :D
He was such a dick.
At the end of the day though as much as I loved the film, I couldn't get over the fact that it was completely inaccurate. Being British myself I was really quite offended and the way we were portrayed. It ends up turning into American propoganda..

I liked it when I was eight and thought that the British were big meanies who killed prisoners and our American overlords were true and just. And although Braveheart is my favourite movie and the patriot is still good in my books I kinda think the British depiction was a bit over the top.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2014, 01:47:15 am
Yeah that was him :D
He was such a dick.
At the end of the day though as much as I loved the film, I couldn't get over the fact that it was completely inaccurate. Being British myself I was really quite offended and the way we were portrayed. It ends up turning into American propoganda..

I liked it when I was eight and thought that the British were big meanies who killed prisoners and our American overlords were true and just. And although Braveheart is my favourite movie and the patriot is still good in my books I kinda think the British depiction was a bit over the top.
Yeah. I mean don't get me wrong, the British are responsible for huge amounts of pain and suffering throughout history but what really irritates me is when some American people ( not all, I love Americans <3) think that everyone else has done so much wrong and get on their high horse thinking that they are "the land of justice and liberty" and all that shit. 
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 21, 2014, 02:27:32 am
Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"

Lol you cant indoctrinate the ideal of "democracy" and "freedom" into the inbreds by just the media, you need to affect their education as well.
I remember Greece had a similiar controversy concerning who the actual propagators and supporters of the ideas behind the 1821 Greek Revolution agaisnt the Ottomans were, and their "true" motives.
Yeah I've prepared to be penetrated by nationalism's salty cock. I plan to argue. Michael Parenti the shit out of the teacher. Alas, I am but an edgy and arrogant youth, and my facts are but an attempt of misanthropic rebellion.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 21, 2014, 02:50:18 am
Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"

Lol you cant indoctrinate the ideal of "democracy" and "freedom" into the inbreds by just the media, you need to affect their education as well.
I remember Greece had a similiar controversy concerning who the actual propagators and supporters of the ideas behind the 1821 Greek Revolution agaisnt the Ottomans were, and their "true" motives.
Yeah I've prepared to be penetrated by nationalism's salty cock. I plan to argue. Michael Parenti the shit out of the teacher. Alas, I am but an edgy and arrogant youth, and my facts are but an attempt of misanthropic rebellion.

Mmm... Salty cock.... (no homo)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on August 21, 2014, 10:36:19 am
Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"

Lol you cant indoctrinate the ideal of "democracy" and "freedom" into the inbreds by just the media, you need to affect their education as well.
I remember Greece had a similiar controversy concerning who the actual propagators and supporters of the ideas behind the 1821 Greek Revolution agaisnt the Ottomans were, and their "true" motives.
Yeah I've prepared to be penetrated by nationalism's salty cock. I plan to argue. Michael Parenti the shit out of the teacher. Alas, I am but an edgy and arrogant youth, and my facts are but an attempt of misanthropic rebellion.
Read my mind.

You're going to end up doing extra hours for your interference with education, for you are not entitled to have an unbiased opinion, hell, I notice that everywhere up here, in school that is.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 21, 2014, 01:06:15 pm
Tell me if this sounds biased:

Class name: "Americans at War: the Price of Freedom"

Lol you cant indoctrinate the ideal of "democracy" and "freedom" into the inbreds by just the media, you need to affect their education as well.
I remember Greece had a similiar controversy concerning who the actual propagators and supporters of the ideas behind the 1821 Greek Revolution agaisnt the Ottomans were, and their "true" motives.
Yeah I've prepared to be penetrated by nationalism's salty cock. I plan to argue. Michael Parenti the shit out of the teacher. Alas, I am but an edgy and arrogant youth, and my facts are but an attempt of misanthropic rebellion.
Read my mind.

You're going to end up doing extra hours for your interference with education, for you are not entitled to have an unbiased opinion, hell, I notice that everywhere up here, in school that is.
"Don't mess with the system, it's only there to get you into college."
 - A Wise Man.

:P
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on August 21, 2014, 05:10:07 pm
Get to college/University.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 04, 2014, 02:16:55 am
Well, me being a student in American high school has given me a lot of insight on some failures of American history classes. I've been in multiple high schools in 2 separate parts of the country, extremely different areas. My view is that there is not enough real world history being taught. I love American history, but having it 3-4 years in a row doesn't really expand my knowledge, especially when we cover the same thing over and over again. We need to stop using outdated books,etc too. I swear to you that some teachers still think Russia is Communist and I don't blame them necessarily, they teach what they are given to teach. I don't remember one class where I learned about European history, but there was always a section in the book about Europe, but it was fairly small. We were jam-packed with the histories of Asia, Africa, and North America, but not Europe. Why wouldn't we need to be taught about one of the most important continents on the face of this Earth? It always amazed me that a lot of students could name every country in North America and a lot of countries in Asia, yet had no idea where a lot of countries were in Europe. It's a real shame that we are hardly taught about Europe.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: PoWder on December 04, 2014, 02:35:32 am
i wana learn aboiyt the blacks
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 04, 2014, 02:42:05 am
i wana learn aboiyt the blacks

I thought you were scared of those darker than you?  :o
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 04, 2014, 03:45:36 am
Well, me being a student in American high school has given me a lot of insight on some failures of American history classes. I've been in multiple high schools in 2 separate parts of the country, extremely different areas. My view is that there is not enough real world history being taught. I love American history, but having it 3-4 years in a row doesn't really expand my knowledge, especially when we cover the same thing over and over again. We need to stop using outdated books,etc too. I swear to you that some teachers still think Russia is Communist and I don't blame them necessarily, they teach what they are given to teach. I don't remember one class where I learned about European history, but there was always a section in the book about Europe, but it was fairly small. We were jam-packed with the histories of Asia, Africa, and North America, but not Europe. Why wouldn't we need to be taught about one of the most important continents on the face of this Earth? It always amazed me that a lot of students could name every country in North America and a lot of countries in Asia, yet had no idea where a lot of countries were in Europe. It's a real shame that we are hardly taught about Europe.

I think it depends on who you get as a teacher and where you are taught. I live in the cold and desolate North and Western European History is a requirement along with Global, Civics, and American. I was in the Honors West Euro class and had a very passionate teacher who I would hang out before class sometimes just talking about certain historical events, good historians, and great historical movies. He also took a USSR History class in college and was able to deliver a more balanced and less slanderous view of guys like Marx and Lenin. He was an awesome teacher who just brightened up my passion for history because of his. We also called the same teacher mean names because she took Roman history out of the Western Euro curriculum. For kids to really get excited about history, the teacher has to be equally or even more excited about it.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 04, 2014, 04:01:18 am
Well, me being a student in American high school has given me a lot of insight on some failures of American history classes. I've been in multiple high schools in 2 separate parts of the country, extremely different areas. My view is that there is not enough real world history being taught. I love American history, but having it 3-4 years in a row doesn't really expand my knowledge, especially when we cover the same thing over and over again. We need to stop using outdated books,etc too. I swear to you that some teachers still think Russia is Communist and I don't blame them necessarily, they teach what they are given to teach. I don't remember one class where I learned about European history, but there was always a section in the book about Europe, but it was fairly small. We were jam-packed with the histories of Asia, Africa, and North America, but not Europe. Why wouldn't we need to be taught about one of the most important continents on the face of this Earth? It always amazed me that a lot of students could name every country in North America and a lot of countries in Asia, yet had no idea where a lot of countries were in Europe. It's a real shame that we are hardly taught about Europe.

I think it depends on who you get as a teacher and where you are taught. I live in the cold and desolate North and Western European History is a requirement along with Global, Civics, and American. I was in the Honors West Euro class and had a very passionate teacher who I would hang out before class sometimes just talking about certain historical events, good historians, and great historical movies. He also took a USSR History class in college and was able to deliver a more balanced and less slanderous view of guys like Marx and Lenin. He was an awesome teacher who just brightened up my passion for history because of his. We also called the same teacher mean names because she took Roman history out of the Western Euro curriculum. For kids to really get excited about history, the teacher has to be equally or even more excited about it.

You see? That's a great teacher. My teachers like history, they get excited about it, but they don't teach it well enough in depth. I would like to learn more about the 1800's other than slavery and more about the '60s other than segregation. Not saying those things shouldn't be taught, they most definitely should be taught, but to overshadow the other parts of that era is really not expanding my knowledge of that time period. I had teachers up North that really showed American history bias. They called the South racist in every situation in which they could, they refused to acknowledge that the Union had slave states during the Civil War, etc. I noticed it a lot, me being from the South and all. Every single topic that involved racism had something to do with the South and not the North. Why don't they mention the treatment of the Irish, Germans, Italians, Blacks, Jews, and Poles in the North?  :P
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Millander on December 04, 2014, 06:04:04 am
Taking all these shots at general ed History classes is like taking guitar class and only be taught tab. Its a general education class which caters to general ed students. A majority of kids obviously dont have the same passions or interest in history as most people on this forum. As with any subject once you go into college the caliber of your classes will increase greatly because it does not have to cater to a general student body.

So stop expecting your teacher to be Howard Zin and your basic US history textbook to be completely unbiased.

To be honest history really is one of the least important subjects anyways. Its not going to get you far in the real world.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on December 04, 2014, 06:34:40 am
I'd disagree personally. Sure, the content has little practical application, but the skills of analysis and research are applicable to a lot of jobs, particularly things like law and civil service. Even with practical or scientific subjects you tend to get people going into unrelated fields and being accepted because of the skills they teach, not the content. That being said the hope that I won't have to go on the dole probably makes me a bit biased in my opinions, so there's that.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 04, 2014, 09:06:00 am
To be honest history really is one of the least important subjects anyways. Its not going to get you far in the real world.
UK Law (this is from Cambridge): Good applicants tend to have taken subjects at A Level (or equivalent) that develop a careful, analytical approach to reading and which require them to present information in a way which is well structured and thoughtfully argued. In our experience, applicants with backgrounds in Mathematics and science subjects perform as well as those whose background is in humanities subjects.

This is for Russell Group in the UK:
The Russell Group, which represents 24 leading UK universities, has defined facilitating subjects as:
English literature
History
Modern Languages – e.g. French, German, Spanish etc…
Classical languages – e.g. Latin, Ancient Greek
Maths & Further Maths
Physics
Biology
Chemistry
Geography
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 04, 2014, 10:40:27 am
Classical languages aren't even important anymore. They aren't even so incredibly widely used in medicine either.

It isn't as if all universities give their lectures in Latin anymore. It's nearly all in either native or English and when you are in the more technical area in Europe, you'll get away with German as well.


I don't even know why they'd even teach Greek anymore...
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Turin Turambar on December 04, 2014, 11:37:57 am
Every Romanic language is highly based on Latin.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 04, 2014, 03:27:08 pm
Every Romanic language is highly based on Latin.

So?
Doesn't mean their roots are good to learn. As I said: useless.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 04:53:17 pm
I went to an independant Gymnasium (for the non-Dutchies, that's the highest level of secondary education+Latin/Greek, and 'independent' means that's the only level they teach.) and I don't regret going to a school where I had to learn useless things in exchange for not having to intermix with the plebians.

No, really, I was a pretty sensitive kid and I don't think I've done well having to cope with the usually a lot 'tougher' kids of lower education levels. I'm not elitist, I swear  :P
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 04, 2014, 04:54:48 pm
I went to an independant Gymnasium (for the non-Dutchies, that's the highest level of secondary education+Latin/Greek, and 'independent' means that's the only level they teach.) and I don't regret going to a school where I had to learn useless things in exchange for not having to intermix with the plebians.

No, really, I was a pretty sensitive kid and I don't think I've done well having to cope with the usually a lot 'tougher' kids of lower education levels. I'm not elitist, I swear  :P
Oh I like them sensitive
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 04:56:21 pm
Was, Howe. Was.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 04, 2014, 04:57:13 pm
Was, Howe. Was.
Oh I like em tough
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 04, 2014, 05:02:16 pm
Classical languages aren't even important anymore. They aren't even so incredibly widely used in medicine either.
It isn't as if all universities give their lectures in Latin anymore. It's nearly all in either native or English and when you are in the more technical area in Europe, you'll get away with German as well.
I don't even know why they'd even teach Greek anymore...
Cuz #GreekMasterRaceLanguage   8)

But, on a serious note, even though greek terminology is used extensively in science and english, I believe that it's extremely useful within the context of the lesson. But I would prioritise, say, French over Greek if I had no ties to Greece itself and was just looking for a useful foreign language to learn.

About Latin, many British independent schools (the old ones) still use Latin on formal occassions, even though most have moved on :)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 05:04:09 pm
The Greek we are tought is Ancient Greek. Not that much use when you intend to learn Modern Greek.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 04, 2014, 05:09:06 pm
The Greek we are taught** is Ancient Greek. Not that much use when you intend to learn Modern Greek.
Ancient Greek best Greek. (And understanding Ancient Greek, which is the root of modern Greek, is incredibly useful if you then want to also learn M.Greek)
But if you're not a linguist, then I doubt that you'll find it very interesting.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 05:22:39 pm
I stopped with Greek classes after two years, but from what I've been told, it's actually not that useful because the language changed a lot throughout the centuries. That is, if you consider all the different dialects they spoke in Ancient Greek a single language.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 04, 2014, 06:00:03 pm
I stopped with Greek classes after two years, but from what I've been told, it's actually not that useful because the language changed a lot throughout the centuries. That is, if you consider all the different dialects they spoke in Ancient Greek a single language.
Indeed, but I have no idea which version they teach in Greek or English schools :( Gotta ask around
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Cara on December 04, 2014, 06:05:21 pm
I went to an independant Gymnasium (for the non-Dutchies, that's the highest level of secondary education+Latin/Greek, and 'independent' means that's the only level they teach.) and I don't regret going to a school where I had to learn useless things in exchange for not having to intermix with the plebians.

Thought I was done with Latin after Highschool... Came back with it in Law School :D
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 06:26:36 pm
That's just certain words and verses.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Cara on December 04, 2014, 06:28:50 pm
That's just certain words and verses.

Sure but it's still Latin as "Lex posterior non derogat priori" for a basic one  :)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 06:31:33 pm
Which is just Latin for a concept in a modern language. You get the translation right next to it, and people who learned the language might be like 0.01% better off. Yay.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 04, 2014, 06:43:12 pm
The upside of learning Latin is that you understand your own language better, and you have an easier time learning others. True, Latin itself has little practical application as a language nowadays, but it's just a useful thing to know for countless situations. Not that you'll ever need it, but it sets you up to excellent in certain situations where you may have had more trouble without it.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Chosen1 on December 04, 2014, 06:55:55 pm
The upside of learning Latin is that you understand your own language better, and you have an easier time learning others. True, Latin itself has little practical application as a language nowadays, but it's just a useful thing to know for countless situations. Not that you'll ever need it, but it sets you up to excellent in certain situations where you may have had more trouble without it.

It's good to know if you study medicine/physiology or theology
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 04, 2014, 07:04:14 pm
Once again, if you study medicine or physiology, you don't need to have any knowledge of Latin. Just because they use a couple of Latin words, doesn't mean you have to know the fucking language.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Chosen1 on December 04, 2014, 07:18:33 pm
 ::)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on December 04, 2014, 07:26:12 pm
I do enjoy bragging during my ancient history classes that I know all those Latin words and pronounciations. But yeah, it has no practical use though.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 05, 2014, 01:33:50 am
American schools aren't exactly good at teaching other languages  :-\ .I am currently taking French and I must say it's interesting and I love France and the French, but the instructor is annoying in her teaching style. She would be good for someone who needs to grow up (5-6 year old child) speaking a 2nd language, but not for my age group. We can't even form conversations with that language. We aren't focusing on speech AT ALL! We are not learning how to speak French, we are learning how to say a few things, and write a whole bunch of fucking grammar rules,etc and never actually learn the language. This pattern even extends into the higher grades, it's ridiculous! I personally took it upon myself to learn some languages myself, and I can say it works better than a classroom teacher. But that's just my opinion and for some it might be different.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Chosen1 on December 05, 2014, 01:55:47 am
I think that American schools aren't good at teaching languages other than english because they don't think it's important enough.. in the government's eyes, we need to learn how to be efficient workers and contributors to our own country's industry and economy, whilst in Europe, they want everyone to learn english because most european countries' economies are based on trade, not really manufacturing and producing goods like America does. Let's be honest, English is the only language you need to know to be able to communicate with pretty much everybody in the first-world, so schools just don't really want to spend that much time and effort teaching us a language like Spanish or French when the only one we need to know is English.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 05, 2014, 02:05:14 am
J'avais deux profs et ils étaient géniaux. Désolé pour toi, quand même bonne chance à toi et tes études.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 05, 2014, 02:13:06 am
I think that American schools aren't good at teaching languages other than english because they don't think it's important enough.. in the government's eyes, we need to learn how to be efficient workers and contributors to our own country's industry and economy, whilst in Europe, they want everyone to learn english because most european countries' economies are based on trade, not really manufacturing and producing goods like America does. Let's be honest, English is the only language you need to know to be able to communicate with pretty much everybody in the first-world, so schools just don't really want to spend that much time and effort teaching us a language like Spanish or French when the only one we need to know is English.
Jesus Christ  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Ofc it's completely irrelevant that Europe is not a country, and that it has a certain heterogeneity when it comes to languages... Or maybe "European Governments" focus more on linguistics for the sake of language rather than trying to prepare students for some vague generalised expectation that they will be involved in "trade" in the future?

Took me 3 secs to find this about Murica
"The country is among the top three global importers and exporters."

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 05, 2014, 02:19:16 am
J'avais deux profs et ils étaient géniaux. Désolé pour toi, quand même bonne chance à toi et tes études.

Merci :3

J'ai besoin de pratiquer mon français.  :P
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Turin Turambar on December 05, 2014, 02:28:38 am
Oh, cool, are we allowed to speak our own language?

Das finde ich toll! Wir sollten sowas überall im Forum einführen.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 05, 2014, 02:32:44 am
Merci :3

J'ai besoin de pratiquer mon français.  :P

Moi aussi, j'ai donné une présentation sur une poèm aujourd'hui. ^.^ Quel cours tu suis? (combien d'ans?)

Oh, cool, are we allowed to speak our own language?

Das finde ich toll! Wir sollten sowas überall im Forum einführen.

Lol good job, but it's not technically my language if it's learning it for three years in an American classroom.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Turin Turambar on December 05, 2014, 03:06:47 am
Oh, cool, are we allowed to speak our own language?

Das finde ich toll! Wir sollten sowas überall im Forum einführen.

Lol good job, but it's not technically my language if it's learning it for three years in an American classroom.
Je learned it dans l'ecole for deux années mais je ne suis très bon pas as toi can see. :(
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 05, 2014, 03:17:10 am
Ah, mais vois, tu sais l'allemand et l'anglais, où comme moi je ne sais pas de mot d'allemand.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 05, 2014, 03:20:23 am
Merci :3

J'ai besoin de pratiquer mon français.  :P

Moi aussi, j'ai donné une présentation sur une poèm aujourd'hui. ^.^ Quel cours tu suis? (combien d'ans?)

Oh, cool, are we allowed to speak our own language?

Das finde ich toll! Wir sollten sowas überall im Forum einführen.

Lol good job, but it's not technically my language if it's learning it for three years in an American classroom.

1 année


Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 05, 2014, 03:55:00 am
Wow, really great job then. I'll quit typing in FR for all those working themselves over to comprehend, but if there's any place to practice, the NW community is full of francophones.

I've met so many, and honestly I've been around it more than Spanish, the language everyone kind of pushes you to for practicality's sake.

Hope your class works out, French for me has been a fun class that I've had every year with the same teacher and students. If you ever want to practice I'm always open. ;D
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 05, 2014, 04:16:37 am
Wow, really great job then. I'll quit typing in FR for all those working themselves over to comprehend, but if there's any place to practice, the NW community is full of francophones.

I've met so many, and honestly I've been around it more than Spanish, the language everyone kind of pushes you to for practicality's sake.

Hope your class works out, French for me has been a fun class that I've had every year with the same teacher and students. If you ever want to practice I'm always open. ;D
Teach me your language of love
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 05, 2014, 04:20:05 am
Is there an underlying message to that
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 05, 2014, 04:21:20 am
Is there an underlying message to that
There can be anything underlying that you want there to be
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on December 05, 2014, 01:08:22 pm
As a Dutchman, we are expected from our birth onwards to speak multiple languages. I can speak Dutch, English, French, German and a bit of Latin.

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 05, 2014, 03:53:51 pm
We are expected to LEARN. I only speak Dutch and English and have a basis understanding of French and German, because I was taught it. I don't speak it.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on December 05, 2014, 03:58:40 pm
Alright, you're right on that.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on December 06, 2014, 09:50:37 am
We don't do the whole language thing much in the UK, which is a bit of a shame. Everyone has to do a language at secondary school but no one bloody uses it so everyone loses it. Kinda lucky that my uni offers a minor program in a language of your choice, so I'm picking up some Russian, but we really kinda need it to be more widespread so we're not the stereotypical cunt tourists saying thing slowly and loudly in English.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2014, 12:45:41 pm
Russian?

I see you're planning on collaborating after the invasion. 
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KurassierNixon on December 06, 2014, 06:04:59 pm
Children should be taught the reality of the first world war instead of focusing on all the great "military innovations and new technology." American schools should also focus on America's involvement in the more in much more detail which is usually overshadowed by the various other allies and central powers.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 06, 2014, 06:47:22 pm
Children should be taught the reality of the first world war instead of focusing on all the great "military innovations and new technology." American schools should also focus on America's involvement in the more in much more detail which is usually overshadowed by the various other allies and central powers.
Well wasn't the new military innovation and tech mixed with ye olde honor and tactics the sad reality of the First World War

Also, from personal experience, in my western class we focused on exclusive and intricate detail on the European side of the war. While in U.S., we focused briefly on America's involvement. Made sense
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 07, 2014, 12:00:47 am
Like the way my statement turned into the first non-hatred-filled discussion about culture for the first time in FSE history.

Keep it up!
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 07, 2014, 12:43:06 am
Like the way my statement turned into the first non-hatred-filled discussion about culture for the first time in FSE history.

Keep it up!

Which statement?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 07, 2014, 03:05:57 am
Like the way my statement turned into the first non-hatred-filled discussion about culture for the first time in FSE history.

Keep it up!

Which statement?
Fuck you you worthless piece of shite

That one

You're welcome Riddlez
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 07, 2014, 03:50:24 am
Like the way my statement turned into the first non-hatred-filled discussion about culture for the first time in FSE history.

Keep it up!

Which statement?
Fuck you you worthless piece of shite

That one

You're welcome Riddlez

Wow Riddlez, why are you such a cunt?

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holytaco.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2Ffunny-gifs-jim-derpy.gif&hash=96ed01deb50a522e6c7d8a6018cb8087a51dfda8)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Captain America on December 07, 2014, 04:30:03 pm
Russian?

I see you're planning on collaborating after the invasion.

At the end of this day, better red than dead
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 07, 2014, 07:11:05 pm
Like the way my statement turned into the first non-hatred-filled discussion about culture for the first time in FSE history.

Keep it up!

Which statement?
Fuck you you worthless piece of shite

That one

You're welcome Riddlez

Wow Riddlez, why are you such a cunt?


hey, I am balancing the force.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 07, 2014, 07:25:26 pm
Not really. You're mostly bringing this thread off-topic.

Love you, Riddlez
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 07, 2014, 07:38:23 pm
Not really. You're mostly bringing this thread off-topic.

Love you, Riddlez
Love you, Duuring. I don't hide anything
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: PoWder on December 07, 2014, 10:30:31 pm
9/11 was an inside job
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: PoWder on December 07, 2014, 10:32:12 pm
jet fuel cant melt steel beams
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 07, 2014, 10:33:44 pm
I saw a documentary on conspiracy theories for that and even if you don't believe it it is quite interesting.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 07, 2014, 11:07:47 pm
I am of the opinion that some lies and cover ups of WW2 should be taught, but me saying what they are would likely lead to me being banned/muted for supposedly being anti-semitic some how so I will just leave you with that ambiguity.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 07, 2014, 11:17:44 pm
I am of the opinion that some lies and cover ups of WW2 should be taught, but me saying what they are would likely lead to me being banned/muted for supposedly being anti-semitic some how so I will just leave you with that ambiguity.

Things about the holocaust? Merely accepting that there are still many things we don't know and that the information we have available to us may not be entirely accurate or valid is a perfectly fine action, from an academic standpoint. Hell, we're still only 70 years past the second world war. Think of how long it took for us to uncover a lot of what we know about Roman civilization and other things from thousands of years ago. We're still digging up artifacts and discovering ancient manuscripts that completely redefine the way we think of life back then. Who's to say the same won't happen with the holocaust and other events of the 20th century? One important aspect of historical research is operating under the assumption that all we know is what we've discovered so far. People need to understand that difficult events in the past should not be left forgotten and untouched just because they are painful to think about.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 07, 2014, 11:24:24 pm
I am of the opinion that some lies and cover ups of WW2 should be taught, but me saying what they are would likely lead to me being banned/muted for supposedly being anti-semitic some how so I will just leave you with that ambiguity.

Things about the holocaust? Merely accepting that there are still many things we don't know and that the information we have available to us may not be entirely accurate or valid is a perfectly fine action, from an academic standpoint. Hell, we're still only 70 years past the second world war. Think of how long it took for us to uncover a lot of what we know about Roman civilization and other things from thousands of years ago. We're still digging up artifacts and discovering ancient manuscripts that completely redefine the way we think of life back then. Who's to say the same won't happen with the holocaust and other events of the 20th century? One important aspect of historical research is operating under the assumption that all we know is what we've discovered so far. People need to understand that difficult events in the past should not be left forgotten and untouched just because they are painful to think about.
I got this for posting an image -some- users have parodies of as their avatar, accompanied by text that has also seen many variations on this forum -without punishment, might I add-. They got it out for me man, I ain't taking no chances unless I'm given permission. #GodBlessOlafson

muh 6 million warnings
(https://i.imgur.com/s604hAE.png)
[close]

subtle breadcrumbs
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 08, 2014, 12:01:52 am
Telling user to kill themselves. lolollo...

The moderators should read Fahrenheit 451.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 08, 2014, 12:03:02 am
Telling user to kill themselves. lolollo...

The moderators should read Fahrenheit 451.

Shouldn't everybody?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 08, 2014, 12:08:42 am
Telling user to kill themselves. lolollo...

The moderators should read Fahrenheit 451.
I even said please too ):
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: PoWder on December 08, 2014, 09:17:09 pm
i dont think the holocaust happened
you cant kil people that fast
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 08, 2014, 09:27:13 pm
Are you just here to say controversial things?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Conway on December 08, 2014, 10:09:58 pm
I can't take history next year my school does not offer it :(
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 08, 2014, 10:11:03 pm
i dont think the holocaust happened
you cant kil people that fast
You're close to being partially correct. Poor bait though.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 08, 2014, 11:39:25 pm
I can't take history next year my school does not offer it :(
what  :o
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 09, 2014, 12:38:25 am
I can't take history next year my school does not offer it :(
what  :o

Erm, well, stay dumb and isolated is your school's policy, I guess?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 09, 2014, 12:43:39 am
I can't take history next year my school does not offer it :(
what  :o

Erm, well, stay dumb and isolated is your school's policy, I guess?
Your school probably has more people than the population of my town :P
Its not a subject that is provided because no one takes it.

It's not mandatory????!?!?!?!?!??!?!  :o
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 09, 2014, 01:07:11 am
You only need 3 years of science here lolol
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 09, 2014, 01:12:58 am
Hey, at least you don't take courses based around ending "white privilege" like the kids here in the good ol' US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ8Nr3_2724
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 09, 2014, 01:39:31 am
We have social studies instead and that's generally the mandatory thing until after this year I believe. It has history but a lot more to it. However just the subject history is what I want if not I'd probably settle for world geography.

Also I've kinda been teaching myself because I just have a general interest in the subject so much so most of the thing we learn concerning world history I could teach better than the teacher.

Are you in middle school?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 09, 2014, 02:50:37 am
We have social studies instead and that's generally the mandatory thing until after this year I believe. It has history but a lot more to it. However just the subject history is what I want if not I'd probably settle for world geography.

Also I've kinda been teaching myself because I just have a general interest in the subject so much so most of the thing we learn concerning world history I could teach better than the teacher.

Are you in middle school?
My last social studies class was 5th grade so taking in account the changes made for the declining intelligence of the youth I'd say 7th or 8th grade. Assuming they live in the US, I know it's not high school.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 09, 2014, 03:11:10 am
Do you go to a school for retards or something? I don't know of any implementation of the public education system in the US (maybe Canada does things differently) that lumps all history into 'social studies' and has a core class called world geography. Should be pretty straightforward.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 09, 2014, 03:12:17 am
Do you go to a school for retards Canadians or something? I don't know of any implementation of the public education system in the US that lumps all history into 'social studies' and has a core class called world geography. Should be pretty straightforward.

Pretty sure he lives in Canada
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 09, 2014, 03:14:41 am
Do you go to a school for retards Canadians or something? I don't know of any implementation of the public education system in the US that lumps all history into 'social studies' and has a core class called world geography. Should be pretty straightforward.

Pretty sure he lives in Canada

Realized that a second after I posted. Still, that's pretty unconventional for a high school level education system.

Quote
I live in Newfoundland m8. I could go to another school that has history because it has more people but the one I'm at does not have history as a subject.

Is it a private school?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 09, 2014, 03:21:36 am
No these are public schools but it depends on population as to what subjects/ courses you can chose. I've gone to one school up until now and the last was in the town were I live. Now I have two choices of schools and one has more courses but I have no way of traveling there atm and the other has less but I can get a bus ride. Majority of courses (including physics) are taken online and I don't know what the situation on online History is. It offers the core subjects English, Math Academic,Basic and online Advanced) and Science (Chem and Bio)
You better start reading, history + english > everything else. World history and english are the only classes in high school that didn't feel like a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 09, 2014, 03:23:16 am
They might seem like that, I get. But to be honest I've come to use my French a lot, and I know that science and math will be very helpful later.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 09, 2014, 04:02:18 am
They might seem like that, I get. But to be honest I've come to use my French a lot, and I know that science and math will be very helpful later.
They won't, they will teach you the exact same classes when you go to college.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 09, 2014, 04:06:24 am
They might seem like that, I get. But to be honest I've come to use my French a lot, and I know that science and math will be very helpful later.

When was math above basic algebra and geometry levels ever useful in everyday life?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 09, 2014, 04:10:46 am
I find it interesting on a personal level. Kinda like history, it's not necessarily directly relevant but it gives you a greater sense on your place in the world and how stuff works or has worked.

I mean, physics in of itself is designed to go in-depth on everyday situations. It's the variety of problems you see there that transfer over to life.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 09, 2014, 04:46:25 am
Science is pretty useful for everyday life. Hell, physics is one of my favorite subjects. Far more useful than math.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 09, 2014, 04:55:42 am
Anyone have a specific opinion on Common Core? (American students should know what this is.)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 09, 2014, 05:01:19 am
From what I know of it, it's a good idea poorly produced. I like the idea of nationally standardizing curriculum so certain states can't avoid touchy topics, but it focuses too much on mass producing standardized tests to make profits for the printing/producing companies. From what I hear teachers don't have enough input to the test makeup.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: PoWder on December 09, 2014, 06:09:18 am
u dont need to konw history for any reason prove me wrong
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 09, 2014, 09:00:40 am
u dont need to konw history for any reason prove me wrong
...
Spoiler
l2tr0llm9
[close]
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 09, 2014, 01:22:40 pm
Anyone have a specific opinion on Common Core? (American students should know what this is.)
Made by 60 year old SJW shits who still have Mom's nipple in their mouth. It's basically trash and is ruining the education system.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 10, 2014, 07:51:54 pm
http://huffpost.com/us/entry/6050456

Welp, there go our standards even further.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 10, 2014, 09:49:45 pm
I keep clicking and I get 404 errors with dog pics
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 10, 2014, 09:58:42 pm
There is a link under the picture which takes you to the actual site  ;D
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 10, 2014, 10:02:36 pm
Yeah, it takes me back to the original Huffpost, I thought Nipple was pointing out a specific article.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 10, 2014, 10:03:55 pm
oh
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 10, 2014, 10:45:43 pm
Whoops, sorry. I'll fix that.

Here's the article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/common-core-history-exams_b_6050456.html

Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Crescent Glow on December 10, 2014, 10:56:57 pm
Wow, I'm lucky I guess.

I go to a private school so we don't have common core. Right now we are studying the ancient Greeks and Romans, much more interesting then the same stuff about civil rights that I've learned 3 times already.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Gordon_ on December 10, 2014, 10:58:32 pm

Wow, I'm lucky I guess.

I go to a private school so we don't have common core. Right now we are studying the ancient Greeks and Romans, much more interesting then the same stuff about civil rights that I've learned 3 times already.

Rich boi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 10, 2014, 10:59:52 pm
Anyone tried the class survey? Last year the BBC took a survey to see what class brackets people fit into. Just interesting to see what everyone gets.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Crescent Glow on December 10, 2014, 11:03:33 pm

Wow, I'm lucky I guess.

I go to a private school so we don't have common core. Right now we are studying the ancient Greeks and Romans, much more interesting then the same stuff about civil rights that I've learned 3 times already.

Rich boi

Pls no

Didn't mean to brag
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 10, 2014, 11:09:14 pm
Anyone tried the class survey? Last year the BBC took a survey to see what class brackets people fit into. Just interesting to see what everyone gets.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973
Ermmm... established middle class (25% of UK)? Idk this survey does seem to not addresss quite a few things... such as University degree, current profession, etc :)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 10, 2014, 11:52:19 pm
American education is so weird... Every school seems to be solely based around preparing kids for the next level. Instead of actual....like....learning...
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Crescent Glow on December 11, 2014, 12:10:13 am
American education is so weird... Every school seems to be solely based around preparing kids for the next level. Instead of actual....like....learning...
Yes, it can be very linear...depending on the subject
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 11, 2014, 12:32:21 am
Duuring if you ask half the kids in my school, they won't be able to pick out your country on a map lol.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Akko on December 11, 2014, 12:39:48 am
Duuring if you ask half the kids in my school, they won't be able to pick out your country on a map lol.

Have to say that is the thing I hate the most about American education. We don't teach fucking geography well at all. I can point out every country in Europe on a map and yet I see others that can't even point out Germany or the UK.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 11, 2014, 12:41:32 am
A lot of people can't even find America on a map.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Shredder on December 11, 2014, 12:45:42 am
Geography is optional in high school here, with certain history classes as alternatives. I haven't taken it but know most of my knowledge from either international news or here from NW.

PS I can't either so don't feel bad haha.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Death by EMP on December 11, 2014, 12:55:19 am
A lot of people can't even find America on a map.
Found it

(https://i.imgur.com/AYUet59.jpg)

Yes I know Iceland is EU, too lazy to fix it.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Nipplestockings on December 11, 2014, 12:57:20 am
A pioneer in intellectual accomplishment!
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Conway on December 11, 2014, 03:18:36 am
I could name the capital of every province in Canada since I was five and there are still people in my class who can't name the Capital :P
Again I've kinda taught myself history.
I belive I was either 5 or 6 when I became obsessed with the Titanic....then I got obsessed with Ancient Egypt. I believe I was eight when I fell in love with D-day then the Second WW in general......then all wars.............And two years ago I became obsessed with the Napoleonic Wars and everything about it so much that I've wasted over 65 days of my life on a game about it! 
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: The Rebel on December 11, 2014, 03:59:30 am
I know all Modern and Old western history dating back to Romans. Know all states capitals and history of US. Ye
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 11, 2014, 04:08:02 pm
Shall we just end the bragging contest here?


For the people who said maths and geometry aren't used at all in real life and therefor are useless should get their minds straight and ask their teachers. Jesus fucking Christ: It is god damned useful already.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: joer5835 on December 11, 2014, 04:51:38 pm
Those are lies Riddlez, DAMN LIES.

You don't need maths, I am perfectly able to renovate my house without using it!
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 11, 2014, 05:08:56 pm
For the people who said maths and geometry aren't used at all in real life and therefor are useless should get their minds straight and ask their teachers. Jesus fucking Christ: It is god damned useful already.

Those inbreds can go live in their miserable lives in their ghetto and use manual labour as a key skill in their shit low-paid profession. But then I wont give up my tax money to pay their benefits.
Just the analytical skills you get from Maths and the need to slowly and clearly work out a solution (especially at the higer levels where you have to exhibit a clear chain of reasoning) is beneficial as an skill in general (I've seen it influence my argumentation in Literature and debating as well). There is a reason why Maths is considered a facilitating subject at all UK Universities by industry leaders and professionals far more intelligent and experienced than those bitching about it at school.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 11, 2014, 05:24:48 pm
Did I really need 6 years of math to learn logical thinking?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 11, 2014, 05:45:05 pm
Did I really need 6 years of math to learn logical thinking?
Yes. Because you only apply logical thinking properly when you are more mature, in the later stages of maths. 2+2 is a very basic form of thinking, and maths can be expanded further than that. Muuuch further, as I realised when I did FP1
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 11, 2014, 06:08:28 pm
Anyone tried the class survey? Last year the BBC took a survey to see what class brackets people fit into. Just interesting to see what everyone gets.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973
Ermmm... established middle class (25% of UK)? Idk this survey does seem to not addresss quite a few things... such as University degree, current profession, etc :)
lel posh boi  ;D :P
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on December 11, 2014, 06:18:25 pm
lel posh boi  ;D :P
haha :P I still however think that many important factors are still not included lol
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 11, 2014, 06:22:16 pm
I agree :)
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Colonel Howe on December 11, 2014, 06:22:32 pm
Traditional working class

Rool BRITANNIA
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Toffee on December 11, 2014, 06:23:01 pm
Niceeeee
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Riddlez on December 12, 2014, 08:56:39 pm
Did I really need 6 years of math to learn logical thinking?

Logical thinking is only one of the quite some more things maths teach you.

And, most of maths are used in other subjects such as physics, chemistry and economics.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Duuring on December 13, 2014, 01:31:06 pm
I got rid of physics and chemistry as subjects and economics just had a bunch of simple calculations.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: hardcorefreestyleboy on December 28, 2014, 09:41:12 am
Here in germany its like this: ancient cultures up to french revolution: 1 year, ww1+russian revolution (ridiculous amount of ww1 lessons) 1/2 year, NAZIS  3 1/2 years

THAT is bullshit right there
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: SherlockCat on December 28, 2014, 01:09:52 pm
Here in germany its like this: ancient cultures up to french revolution: 1 year, ww1+russian revolution (ridiculous amount of ww1 lessons) 1/2 year, NAZIS  3 1/2 years

THAT is bullshit right there
Well we can't have you remotely proud of your heritage for one second can we, ya damn nazis.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: InUrBase, EatingUrBacon on December 29, 2014, 11:17:10 pm
Here in germany its like this: ancient cultures up to french revolution: 1 year, ww1+russian revolution (ridiculous amount of ww1 lessons) 1/2 year, NAZIS  3 1/2 years

THAT is bullshit right there
Well we can't have you remotely proud of your heritage for one second can we, ya damn nazis.

What do German textbooks say about WWI and the rise of the Nazis?
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: hardcorefreestyleboy on December 31, 2014, 12:02:09 pm
Schützt das Reich! What else??
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: [98th]Ripa on January 01, 2015, 09:07:19 am
Schützt das Reich! What else??
You poor Germans :c
I wish Prussia was still here to make you all proud
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Turin Turambar on January 01, 2015, 01:29:00 pm
I did not get to know any person filled up with more retarded stupidity than my history teacher I had in the senior classes.
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: Josh Faraday on January 25, 2015, 05:14:23 pm
I did not get to know any person filled up with more retarded stupidity than my history teacher I had in the senior classes.
k
Title: Re: What should children be taught? (History)
Post by: SamTheZamER on January 31, 2015, 04:57:41 pm
I'm in College Prep History in my High School class here in America, we mainly get a broad specter of history from 1000-1960's. Every year it gets more in depth but besides that little is known about anything outside of Europe or America