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Which Nation is the best?

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Author Topic: What is the best Cavalry overall?  (Read 10086 times)

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Offline Nellyx

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2013, 05:54:33 pm »
It all depends against who you are fighting, I guess. If I need to attack a solid block of infantry, give me Carabiniers. Cavalry? Give me lancers with some hussars behind it.

I couldn't agree more, game-wise that is. ;)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 05:38:34 am by Nellyx »

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 05:56:41 pm »
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Burrows

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 06:40:29 pm »
I enjoy the medium cavalry the Cuirassiers they got medium swords medium houses and medium armor they were quick and deadly and they look cool.

medium houses?

Yes they're like the gypsies of the Napoleonic Era

Offline Martastik

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 10:38:26 pm »
Spoiler
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.
[close]

Thank you for pointing out in a rather rude way that my statement was indeed historically inaccurate, when you take the time to read my post again you'll see that I admit to this. Excuse me for trying to reason without historical facts, but i'm not going to indulge myself in facts. Try and be polite when correcting someone, could've made this thread a lot more of a pleasant place to discuss it. That being said, you're probably right, congratulations. I have now lost the will to even look it up.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 10:41:58 pm by 5eMartastik »

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 10:49:12 pm »
Spoiler
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.
[close]

Thank you for pointing out in a rather rude way that my statement was indeed historically inaccurate, when you take the time to read my post again you'll see that I admit to this. Excuse me for trying to reason without historical facts, but i'm not going to indulge myself in facts. Try and be polite when correcting someone, could've made this thread a lot more of a pleasant place to discuss it. That being said, you're probably right, congratulations. I have now lost the will to even look it up.

Well unfortunatly you don't know me that well and have to take offense when i don't take the time to write to you politely, but maybe you shouldn't think it is your right to be written to politely. For all i care you're just some dude on the internet. I could have touched it up a bit an made it nice for you, but i think it would be nice if you and I would mutually understand why i don't take the time to do that, and that i don't mean to offend you but, for lack of better terms, i am just lazy.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Martastik

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 10:51:22 pm »
Spoiler
Spoiler
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.
[close]

Thank you for pointing out in a rather rude way that my statement was indeed historically inaccurate, when you take the time to read my post again you'll see that I admit to this. Excuse me for trying to reason without historical facts, but i'm not going to indulge myself in facts. Try and be polite when correcting someone, could've made this thread a lot more of a pleasant place to discuss it. That being said, you're probably right, congratulations. I have now lost the will to even look it up.

Well unfortunatly you don't know me that well and have to take offense when i don't take the time to write to you politely, but maybe you shouldn't think it is your right to be written to politely. For all i care you're just some dude on the internet. I could have touched it up a bit an made it nice for you, but i think it would be nice with you and I would mutually understand why i don't take the time to do that, and that i don't mean to offend you but, for lack of better terms, i am just lazy.
[close]

It takes more of an effort to be rude than just neutral (in most cases neutral=polite). But anyway, doesn't matter.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 10:55:01 pm »
Spoiler
Spoiler
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.
[close]

Thank you for pointing out in a rather rude way that my statement was indeed historically inaccurate, when you take the time to read my post again you'll see that I admit to this. Excuse me for trying to reason without historical facts, but i'm not going to indulge myself in facts. Try and be polite when correcting someone, could've made this thread a lot more of a pleasant place to discuss it. That being said, you're probably right, congratulations. I have now lost the will to even look it up.

Well unfortunatly you don't know me that well and have to take offense when i don't take the time to write to you politely, but maybe you shouldn't think it is your right to be written to politely. For all i care you're just some dude on the internet. I could have touched it up a bit an made it nice for you, but i think it would be nice with you and I would mutually understand why i don't take the time to do that, and that i don't mean to offend you but, for lack of better terms, i am just lazy.
[close]

It takes more of an effort to be rude than just neutral (in most cases neutral=polite). But anyway, doesn't matter.

If you find it rude i'm sorry you experience it that way. Just simply mentioning that it didnt have those rude intentions.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Martastik

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 10:59:33 pm »
Spoiler
Spoiler
Even though it sounds rather one-sided being the 2nd in charge of a heavy cavalry regiment, but to me it seems logical that heavy cavalry is, in the view of utilitarianism, the best cavalry (or 'was', either way). This because of the advantages they have. heavy cavalry would in most occasions beat infantry and cavalry alike when engaged 1on1 (of course in an ideal situation; a perfect 1on1 situation). Of course one could argue that having light cavalry is more useful because of faster movement & hit and run situations, adding a tactical advantage, and that lancers have the advantage that they can deal heavy blows in a charge vs cavalry and infantry. But in the end the heavy cavalry is that which can fend most for itself, granted not entirely, you'd always need support in a cavalry charge, but they can take the hardest hit, were in most cases most intimidating and dealt the heaviest blows because of their main (obvious) aspect, being heav(ily armed).

Of course it can always depend on the situation that you have, when odds aren't ideal you might require other cavalry. But I can only imagine that if you had a perfect 1on1 situation, heavy cavalry would be the most effective.
Having said that, I am aware that an ideal tactical situation nearly never occurred, so historically speaking i'm probably wrong, practically speaking though, that is my reasoning behind it.

It is rather apparent that you lack historical knowledge when it comes to cavalry, i take it you are basing your statement off of ingame knowledge.

It is well known that, no matter the size of the sword or being dressed in iron like a turtle, that to wininning a cavalry engagement it is all about organization during the charge. The side who keeps it's ranks the best dressed in the highest speed during the charge is the side that will win. This is apparent when you have 2 squadrons of (Hungarian) Hussars beating two regiments of Carabiniers at Leipzig 1813.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 99% of the time when infantry formed a square, that square would hold and the cavalry would run off. Only if you caught the infantry out of square were you able to rout them with cavalry, but by that stage it doesn't matter what kind of cavalry you have, whether it be light or heavy. However light cavalry often had much more gifted riders, and had could travel faster (albeit not by much), giving them an advantage when it came to exploitation and surprise.

Further defiecencies in heavy cavalry is that it cost a load for horses an equipment when compared to a dragoon, or even a hussar, despite their fashion needs. Lancers are the cavalry that have the most advantages, however it is difficult to get a sufficient amount of well trained lancers since a lance is a weapon that requires a great deal of time to master. However when you get people who have mastered the weapon, you will end up with a force that can be used for reconnaissance and scouting, doesn't cost much for equipment and horses, has better mobility and range on the battlefield. Another thing i wanted to point out is that, by rolling your greatcoat and putting it over your torso, you have essentially made a cuirasse that is invunerable to sabre slashes.

So even in your perfect 1v1 situation, if heavy cavalry was pitched against lancers they would have no advantages since: Lancers will have superior shock on the charge which is all that matters, the side who deals the most damage in those first few seconds has almost always won the engagement.
[close]

Thank you for pointing out in a rather rude way that my statement was indeed historically inaccurate, when you take the time to read my post again you'll see that I admit to this. Excuse me for trying to reason without historical facts, but i'm not going to indulge myself in facts. Try and be polite when correcting someone, could've made this thread a lot more of a pleasant place to discuss it. That being said, you're probably right, congratulations. I have now lost the will to even look it up.

Well unfortunatly you don't know me that well and have to take offense when i don't take the time to write to you politely, but maybe you shouldn't think it is your right to be written to politely. For all i care you're just some dude on the internet. I could have touched it up a bit an made it nice for you, but i think it would be nice with you and I would mutually understand why i don't take the time to do that, and that i don't mean to offend you but, for lack of better terms, i am just lazy.
[close]

It takes more of an effort to be rude than just neutral (in most cases neutral=polite). But anyway, doesn't matter.

If you find it rude i'm sorry you experience it that way. Just simply mentioning that it didnt have those rude intentions.

Maybe i'm having a bit of a bad day, my apologies.

Offline Erik le Rouge

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 12:15:46 am »
In my opinion, there is no way for one to point out which type of cavalry is the 'best'.

As the French General De Brack said,

Quote
"The most important thing in a cavalry charge is the spirit about. The conditions of a good charge are:
- To surprise the enemy.
- To take the stronger, then the weaker of the enemy when they are in a lack of confidence, or when they engaged a bad manœuvre.
- To meet the enemy with your horsemen more united, and with horses more fresh than him.
- To fight them harsher than they do."

From this quote, we have many examples showing that a type of cavalry can destroy another one in one situation, but can also be heavily beaten in another situation.

I'll take for example the cavalry charge of the 'Hellish Brigade' (5e + 7e Hussards) at Zehdenick, where General Lasalle and his two hussar regiments (~400 men) faced the cavalry Brigade of Prussian General Schimmelpenning, with his 3000 men from the elite Prussian Cavalry, such as the Leib-Husaren, the Queen's Dragoons, or the Prussian Gendarmes. Yet, Lasalle will give a powerful and unexpected charge right in front of the Prussians. Schimmelpenning will be killed at the very beggining of the charge, and the Prussian will be beaten and routing after 1 or 2 minutes of fight.

So we can say that, no matter which type of cavalry you lead, everything is useful in a way or another. Hussars are made for scouting, but they can be useful for quick and deadly attacks on rifles, artillery, or even infantry or enemy cavalry (as I said with Lasalle's charge on the Prussians).

There is no class better than another, every type of cavalry is deadly, as long as you put them into the right hands :)
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Offline Wibpaint

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 12:19:16 am »
In my opinion, there is no way for one to point out which type of cavalry is the 'best'.

As the French General De Brack said,

Quote
"The most important thing in a cavalry charge is the spirit about. The conditions of a good charge are:
- To surprise the enemy.
- To take the stronger, then the weaker of the enemy when they are in a lack of confidence, or when they engaged a bad manœuvre.
- To meet the enemy with your horsemen more united, and with horses more fresh than him.
- To fight them harsher than they do."

From this quote, we have many examples showing that a type of cavalry can destroy another one in one situation, but can also be heavily beaten in another situation.

I'll take for example the cavalry charge of the 'Hellish Brigade' (5e + 7e Hussards) at Zehdenick, where General Lasalle and his two hussar regiments (~400 men) faced the cavalry Brigade of Prussian General Schimmelpenning, with his 3000 men from the elite Prussian Cavalry, such as the Leib-Husaren, the Queen's Dragoons, or the Prussian Gendarmes. Yet, Lasalle will give a powerful and unexpected charge right in front of the Prussians. Schimmelpenning will be killed at the very beggining of the charge, and the Prussian will be beaten and routing after 1 or 2 minutes of fight.

So we can say that, no matter which type of cavalry you lead, everything is useful in a way or another. Hussars are made for scouting, but they can be useful for quick and deadly attacks on rifles, artillery, or even infantry or enemy cavalry (as I said with Lasalle's charge on the Prussians).

There is no class better than another, every type of cavalry is deadly, as long as you put them into the right hands :)

Here here! Listen to the French man :) I completely agree with him in this one

Offline Duuring

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2013, 01:25:02 am »
Are you very sure the 5e and 7e counted just 400 men together? Brigades usually counted around 1000 to 1400 men.

Offline Erik le Rouge

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2013, 01:34:31 am »
Are you very sure the 5e and 7e counted just 400 men together? Brigades usually counted around 1000 to 1400 men.

You are right on the fact that Cavalry Brigades counted around 1000 men (1400 is a bit too much though).

But at Zehdenick, yes, the 5e and 7e together had only 400 men. The reason of it is that the rest of the two regiments was divided and spread all around the land, into several patrols. In fact, the Hellish Brigade was the scout, the eyes and the ears of Murat's Corps in Prussia, so Lasalle always had to send many patrols around, to keep the contact with Murat, and to give him useful and fresh informations.

So yes, at Zehdenick, Lasalle did charge with 400 men indeed :)
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Offline Cara

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2013, 01:41:01 am »
Lasalle during the First Italy Campaign charge more than 100 Austrian horsemens and defeat them with only 18 chasseurs !

Offline Duuring

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2013, 01:48:40 am »
Theoretically a regiment counted four squadrons of two companies with over just over a 100 men each, bringing the number to as high as (over) 1.600. Regiments usually had less (sometimes more) squadrons, and squadrons were never really on full strength (Around 125-160 men). 1.400 was not common, in fact it barely ever occurred, but it is the realistic maximum. If I were to put it on what number occurred the most, 800-1200 would be better.

Lasalle during the First Italy Campaign charge more than 100 Austrian horsemens and defeat them with only 18 chasseurs !

It's all just a matter of where you hit them. Above that, Lasalle was a good horseman and used that to his advantage. He was famous for keeping his men at a trot until the very last yards, maybe 10 to twenty, which meant the horses would be totally fresh and bulk trough the tired horses of the enemy. Murat was the guy that would charge for hundreds of yards in a full galop.

Leadership was a deciding factor in the quality of cavalry regiments, even more important then in the infantry or artillery. If you find accounts of big failures, it's often the fault of the commander and not just of the men. The charge of the Nr. 6 at Quatre-bras being my personal favorite.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 01:51:36 am by Duuring »

Offline Cara

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Re: What is the best Cavalry overall?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2013, 01:51:20 am »
Murat was the guy that would charge for hundreds of yards in a full galop.

Haha yeah he has never been a great tactician ^^

btw most beautiful, strong and proud moment of Lasalle is here

During the Battle of Golymin, General Lasalle led his legendary "Hellish Brigade" against a Russian battery of 12-15 guns. The hussars charged with vigor but were abruptly seized with panic, turned about and, in disorder, stampeded back to the rear. Of the whole brigade only the elite company of the 7th Hussars, placed immediately behind Lasalle himself, remained firmly at their posts. Lasalle was furious. He rode after them, screamed "Halt!", and brought them back. Lasalle kept them within a short range from the Russian guns as punishment for their behavior, standing 20 paces in front of his men, remaining motionless and calm, although under enemy fire. He then finally rallied his troops and commanded "Break the ranks!", and with the support of Klein’s dragoon division charged the enemy from the flank. The Russians were routed and fled under the cover of artillery as Lasalle pursued until the battle was won.