"Lincoln was a tyrant"

[Tali]

Now you're just being one sided. Union gunboats were fully ready to begin firing on the Confederates but Lincoln was a cunning politician and waited for the Confederates to fire first. The only reason the entire issue couldn't be solved peacefully was because of this one Union garrison that refused to leave, leading to 600,000 deaths and countless more wounded, missing, and those who died in hospitals and prisons.

The only reason Lincoln didn't fire first was so he could claim that the Confederates were the aggressors. Either side would have fired the first shot eventually, it just so happened that the Confederates didn't have the political cunning of Lincoln on their side.

The South were never a legitimate actor, which I've stated before. They had no right to demand the Union soldiers to vacate the fort, as it was the Union's fort in the first place.

The north would probably have taken to military means to unite the US once again eventually, but that's not how it played out.

[Wismar]

Now you're just being one sided. Union gunboats were fully ready to begin firing on the Confederates but Lincoln was a cunning politician and waited for the Confederates to fire first. The only reason the entire issue couldn't be solved peacefully was because of this one Union garrison that refused to leave, leading to 600,000 deaths and countless more wounded, missing, and those who died in hospitals and prisons.

The only reason Lincoln didn't fire first was so he could claim that the Confederates were the aggressors. Either side would have fired the first shot eventually, it just so happened that the Confederates didn't have the political cunning of Lincoln on their side.

The South were never a legitimate actor, which I've stated before. They had no right to demand the Union soldiers to vacate the fort, as it was the Union's fort in the first place.

The north would probably have taken to military means to unite the US once again eventually, but that's not how it played out.

Although the Union went against the core morale of what they stood for by denying the freedom of the south. The power should be as close to the people as possible and that is the state, not Washington.

[Becker-]

"We just got to find a way to bring Reagan back..."

[Tali]

Now you're just being one sided. Union gunboats were fully ready to begin firing on the Confederates but Lincoln was a cunning politician and waited for the Confederates to fire first. The only reason the entire issue couldn't be solved peacefully was because of this one Union garrison that refused to leave, leading to 600,000 deaths and countless more wounded, missing, and those who died in hospitals and prisons.

The only reason Lincoln didn't fire first was so he could claim that the Confederates were the aggressors. Either side would have fired the first shot eventually, it just so happened that the Confederates didn't have the political cunning of Lincoln on their side.

The South were never a legitimate actor, which I've stated before. They had no right to demand the Union soldiers to vacate the fort, as it was the Union's fort in the first place.

The north would probably have taken to military means to unite the US once again eventually, but that's not how it played out.

Although the Union went against the core morale of what they stood for by denying the freedom of the south. The power should be as close to the people as possible and that is the state, not Washington.

That's what the states tried in the articles of Confederation. This experiment showed the futility of a Confederate (as in political confederation, not the Confederate states of america) system and the need of a strong, centralized authority.

[Rallix]

That's what the states tried in the articles of Confederation. This experiment showed the futility of a Confederate (as in political confederation, not the Confederate states of america) system and the need of a strong, centralized authority.

Because the Centralized authority won? Might is right, I suppose.

The South were never a legitimate actor, which I've stated before.

Because they lost.

barbaric, outdated practices

There will always be barbaric, outdated practices as long as men attempt to rule over one another.
Slavery was the same as any imported labour, just obvious and out in the open. Our new slavery is Chinese factories, and Latino Sweatshops, with millions of workers producing our consumer goods at a cents per hour, and the men in charge of them garnering incredible wealth from it.

What's the difference between a slave, and a wage dependant?
The title.

You can call our forefathers barbarians when we stop being such ourselves.
Listen to your mind, it's telling you that what the Chinese are doing is alright, and to ignore it.
Justify to me the third world labour force, and the incredible part they play in our economy.

Or don't, and shut up about barbarism. Because the difference between then and now is that people were willing to stand in the open about their beliefs, and didn't simply ignore facts of the human condition. They either accepted the evil that was happening as natural, or they tried to stop it.

There was no 'politically correct.' Some Democrat congressman made that up.
Political correctness is as simple as victory, and defeat.
The former correct, and the latter wrong. Victor's justice. Woe to the fallen, for they were wrong.
Was slavery evil? Yes. Have we really changed since then? No.
Was the war therefore fought over slavery? No.

It was fought over the power of the governments. Either at the state level, or the national level. Who has more power?
Gee, let's find out who's right.

[GodsonGuys]

That's what the states tried in the articles of Confederation. This experiment showed the futility of a Confederate (as in political confederation, not the Confederate states of america) system and the need of a strong, centralized authority.

Because the Centralized authority won? Might is right, I suppose.

The South were never a legitimate actor, which I've stated before.

Because they lost.

barbaric, outdated practices

There will always be barbaric, outdated practices as long as men attempt to rule over one another.
Slavery was the same as any imported labour, just obvious and out in the open. Our new slavery is Chinese factories, and Latino Sweatshops, with millions of workers producing our consumer goods at a cents per hour, and the men in charge of them garnering incredible wealth from it.

What's the difference between a slave, and a wage dependant?
The title.

You can call our forefathers barbarians when we stop being such ourselves.
Listen to your mind, it's telling you that what the Chinese are doing is alright, and to ignore it.
Justify to me the third world labour force, and the incredible part they play in our economy.

Or don't, and shut up about barbarism. Because the difference between then and now is that people were willing to stand in the open about their beliefs, and didn't simply ignore facts of the human condition. They either accepted the evil that was happening as natural, or they tried to stop it.

There was no 'politically correct.' Some Democrat congressman made that up.
Political correctness is as simple as victory, and defeat.
The former correct, and the latter wrong. Victor's justice. Woe to the fallen, for they were wrong.
Was slavery evil? Yes. Have we really changed since then? No.
Was the war therefore fought over slavery? No.

It was fought over the power of the governments. Either at the state level, or the national level. Who has more power?
Gee, let's find out who's right.

I must say, you put up a very good/ some very good arguments. Change. The one thing we try to say to ourselves we do. Most countries TREAT some people like slaves, and this was just like our forefathers. We call ourselves civilised, but are we really? Paying a Chinese NIke worker $1.25 a day. I don't really see a difference between a worker and a slave at all. They may be paid, but what exactly does that go to? A place to sleep, and food to eat. Only difference is that some civilisations allow slaves to be free, but these workers are stuck in the cycle.