Cavalry 2v2 Tournament

[Lightning.]

Great tournament, gg to the winners and thanks for hosting. Next month again??

No

Your opinion is invalid. Try again.

Be quiet Frey

[Grozni]

Thanks for hosting, it was very fun and went fairly well considering the amount of matches that were involved.

One issue that could be improved on is that on some occasions both the players and the referees couldn't agree exactly on what the current score of the matches was. It seems score tracking was left to the players, which is not a great solution as those focusing on the fight can easily lose track, and the score was decided by general consensus. There were probably no errors in the end, but still it doesn't feel very competitive that referees have to consult with players on score, seeing how sometimes the players couldn't agree among themselves as well.

A bigger issue is that referees allowed rule breaking in our round 1 elimination match vs Gimps, at the crucial moment when score was 4:4 (as far as we can agree that this is what the score was), where Shadey dismounted his horse, gaining the advantage of 2 dismounted vs 1 mounted. Since some referees (or those with admin rights, can't remember exactly) went as far as to say "it wasn't an early dismount" I can only presume they witnessed this and chose to do nothing, or at least were ignorant of the meaning of the rule that forbids this. While players may be forgiven not knowing all the rules, referees really shouldn't be. We hold no grudges against Gimps, who were a good team and had a fair chance to go to next stage without cheating, but ending our involvement in tourney with the referees' failure to be fair kind of tainted the tourney experience for us.

Those with referee tags present in spec when this happened: Thorvic, CokeTail, Treiz, OuRaNos
+ some players with admin rights, who need not be named as they weren't the ones who applied to do referee duty with diligence.

Again, thanks organizers for hosting this ambitious and fun event, this definitely wasn't your fault.

[SirNelsonGOE]

Gracias Soar and Bedo, was bonito turnamento

[Ciiges]

A tactical dismount near the end of a round shouldn't be counted as cheating. Shadey was in his right there because rule isn't specific enough. For the next tournament just make the rule more specific so nobody can question the decision.

[Soartex]

Spoiler

Thanks for hosting, it was very fun and went fairly well considering the amount of matches that were involved.

One issue that could be improved on is that on some occasions both the players and the referees couldn't agree exactly on what the current score of the matches was. It seems score tracking was left to the players, which is not a great solution as those focusing on the fight can easily lose track, and the score was decided by general consensus. There were probably no errors in the end, but still it doesn't feel very competitive that referees have to consult with players on score, seeing how sometimes the players couldn't agree among themselves as well.

A bigger issue is that referees allowed rule breaking in our round 1 elimination match vs Gimps, at the crucial moment when score was 4:4 (as far as we can agree that this is what the score was), where Shadey dismounted his horse, gaining the advantage of 2 dismounted vs 1 mounted. Since some referees (or those with admin rights, can't remember exactly) went as far as to say "it wasn't an early dismount" I can only presume they witnessed this and chose to do nothing, or at least were ignorant of the meaning of the rule that forbids this. While players may be forgiven not knowing all the rules, referees really shouldn't be. We hold no grudges against Gimps, who were a good team and had a fair chance to go to next stage without cheating, but ending our involvement in tourney with the referees' failure to be fair kind of tainted the tourney experience for us.

Those with referee tags present in spec when this happened: Thorvic, CokeTail, Treiz, OuRaNos
+ some players with admin rights, who need not be named as they weren't the ones who applied to do referee duty with diligence.

Again, thanks organizers for hosting this ambitious and fun event, this definitely wasn't your fault.

[close]

The rule states that early dismounting is forbidden, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.
The rule does not say : No dismounting, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.

We just didnt want people to complain if someone managed to dismount the 2 opponents right in the begining of the round and then dismount, because that would be early yet should be allowed.

I will try to make every rule as clear as possible for next time to avoid any problem like that again.

[Jesu04]

Spoiler

Thanks for hosting, it was very fun and went fairly well considering the amount of matches that were involved.

One issue that could be improved on is that on some occasions both the players and the referees couldn't agree exactly on what the current score of the matches was. It seems score tracking was left to the players, which is not a great solution as those focusing on the fight can easily lose track, and the score was decided by general consensus. There were probably no errors in the end, but still it doesn't feel very competitive that referees have to consult with players on score, seeing how sometimes the players couldn't agree among themselves as well.

A bigger issue is that referees allowed rule breaking in our round 1 elimination match vs Gimps, at the crucial moment when score was 4:4 (as far as we can agree that this is what the score was), where Shadey dismounted his horse, gaining the advantage of 2 dismounted vs 1 mounted. Since some referees (or those with admin rights, can't remember exactly) went as far as to say "it wasn't an early dismount" I can only presume they witnessed this and chose to do nothing, or at least were ignorant of the meaning of the rule that forbids this. While players may be forgiven not knowing all the rules, referees really shouldn't be. We hold no grudges against Gimps, who were a good team and had a fair chance to go to next stage without cheating, but ending our involvement in tourney with the referees' failure to be fair kind of tainted the tourney experience for us.

Those with referee tags present in spec when this happened: Thorvic, CokeTail, Treiz, OuRaNos
+ some players with admin rights, who need not be named as they weren't the ones who applied to do referee duty with diligence.

Again, thanks organizers for hosting this ambitious and fun event, this definitely wasn't your fault.

[close]

The rule states that early dismounting is forbidden, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.
The rule does not say : No dismounting, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.

We just didnt want people to complain if someone managed to dismount the 2 opponents right in the begining of the round and then dismount, because that would be early yet should be allowed.

I will try to make every rule as clear as possible for next time to avoid any problem like that again.

10 min circling around is early if you compare it to the age of the universe, rules are not clear!! 

[Grozni]

Spoiler

Thanks for hosting, it was very fun and went fairly well considering the amount of matches that were involved.

One issue that could be improved on is that on some occasions both the players and the referees couldn't agree exactly on what the current score of the matches was. It seems score tracking was left to the players, which is not a great solution as those focusing on the fight can easily lose track, and the score was decided by general consensus. There were probably no errors in the end, but still it doesn't feel very competitive that referees have to consult with players on score, seeing how sometimes the players couldn't agree among themselves as well.

A bigger issue is that referees allowed rule breaking in our round 1 elimination match vs Gimps, at the crucial moment when score was 4:4 (as far as we can agree that this is what the score was), where Shadey dismounted his horse, gaining the advantage of 2 dismounted vs 1 mounted. Since some referees (or those with admin rights, can't remember exactly) went as far as to say "it wasn't an early dismount" I can only presume they witnessed this and chose to do nothing, or at least were ignorant of the meaning of the rule that forbids this. While players may be forgiven not knowing all the rules, referees really shouldn't be. We hold no grudges against Gimps, who were a good team and had a fair chance to go to next stage without cheating, but ending our involvement in tourney with the referees' failure to be fair kind of tainted the tourney experience for us.

Those with referee tags present in spec when this happened: Thorvic, CokeTail, Treiz, OuRaNos
+ some players with admin rights, who need not be named as they weren't the ones who applied to do referee duty with diligence.

Again, thanks organizers for hosting this ambitious and fun event, this definitely wasn't your fault.

[close]

The rule states that early dismounting is forbidden, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.
The rule does not say : No dismounting, unless there are no remaining mounted opponents.

We just didnt want people to complain if someone managed to dismount the 2 opponents right in the begining of the round and then dismount, because that would be early yet should be allowed.

I will try to make every rule as clear as possible for next time to avoid any problem like that again.

If you say so, I just couldn't help but believe that the rule was misinterpreted at the time by clinging onto the word "early". In this unclear form, "early" should by default mean "before you get dismounted by an opponent" and not an "undefined amount of time decided by referees on the spot". So I hope you will define the rule better, for if this margin is decided by referees on the spot, the players will not really know if they are allowed to dismount or not, and the final decision will be down to who is in referee's favor or not.

But imho, giving the option to dismount vs mounted opponents seems an abusable loophole, that will make this less of a cavalry showdown and allow more tactics than needed. For example in this case, we ended up with two dismounted vs one mounted. That one mounted will not dismount as he will be in clear disadvantage of having to ground melee two opponents at the same time. Rather, he will be forced into the most patient cavalry play, in order to kill at least one of the two dismounted enemies. This may bring on accusations of "delaying", when in fact that lone cavalrymen is just trying to be as tactical as his opponents were when they chose to be a dismounted pair. This rule really needs some more thought.

10 min circling around is early if you compare it to the age of the universe, rules are not clear!! 

You are just shit talking now, the whole circling thing didn't last more than couple minutes top, and as explained above the one mounted guy has all the right in the world to take his time if his sneaky opponents decide to become a pair of dismounts, especially considering he spent some time writing in chat about what seemed a clear case of rule breaking.

[Lightning.]

Its cool that its your opinion but I dont get what your problem is. Not that hard to imagine what an early dismount is.

[Ciiges]

I can't believe you constantly believe in your own deluded mentality Grozni

[Grozni]

Its cool that its your opinion but I dont get what your problem is. Not that hard to imagine what an early dismount is.

It is indeed very easy to imagine what anything means. But can you explain what an early dismount really means? In your own words?

[Lightning.]

Its cool that its your opinion but I dont get what your problem is. Not that hard to imagine what an early dismount is.

It is indeed very easy to imagine what anything means. But can you explain what an early dismount really means? In your own words?

Dismounting at the start of the round. One of you got killed? Easy the round has progressed far enough to dismount if you want to.

[Grozni]

Its cool that its your opinion but I dont get what your problem is. Not that hard to imagine what an early dismount is.

It is indeed very easy to imagine what anything means. But can you explain what an early dismount really means? In your own words?

Dismounting at the start of the round. One of you got killed? Easy the round has progressed far enough to dismount if you want to.

Well that's the problem. What is the start of the round?

A) Start of the round is when you spawn? If you consider that the rule is extended with "..unless opponent is dismounted" the rule could not possibly mean dismounting at spawn. Unless your arm and the arena are of the same length, your team cannot possibly dismount opponent from the spawn, therefore the rule cannot mean dismounting at spawn.
B) All the time it takes before one of the players dies? Will you call that the start of the round even if it takes ages for one of players to die?
C) Some undefined amount of seconds that is up to referees to decide? Not very elegant.

As admitted, the rule was badly phrased and there is no need to flame further by derogatory remarks.

[Rastignac]

Well that's the problem. What is the start of the round?

[Thyrell]

Its cool that its your opinion but I dont get what your problem is. Not that hard to imagine what an early dismount is.

It is indeed very easy to imagine what anything means. But can you explain what an early dismount really means? In your own words?

Dismounting at the start of the round. One of you got killed? Easy the round has progressed far enough to dismount if you want to.

Well that's the problem. What is the start of the round?

A) Start of the round is when you spawn? If you consider that the rule is extended with "..unless opponent is dismounted" the rule could not possibly mean dismounting at spawn. Unless your arm and the arena are of the same length, your team cannot possibly dismount opponent from the spawn, therefore the rule cannot mean dismounting at spawn.
B) All the time it takes before one of the players dies? Will you call that the start of the round even if it takes ages for one of players to die?
C) Some undefined amount of seconds that is up to referees to decide? Not very elegant.

As admitted, the rule was badly phrased and there is no need to flame further by derogatory remarks.

https://www.theinternationaliqtest.com/

[Dias10]

Well that's the problem. What is the start of the round?

lol