Fascisme, Communism, Socialism, Capitalism

[König]

Yes you can. In a capitalist economy, everyone is on his own. Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money, but that is enough for the very base: you can't buy anything luxorious.

Why should the government give money to someone who is perfectly capable of working, but doesn't?

[GoblinOverlord]

Yes you can. In a capitalist economy, everyone is on his own. Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money, but that is enough for the very base: you can't buy anything luxorious.

Why should the government give money to someone who is perfectly capable of working, but doesn't?

To prevent them from starving, I guess? Like I said, It's almost nothing. My aunt lives off such money and only has a basic lifestyle. I'd never want to live like that, really.

[Nipplestockings]

Yeah that's how I've always seen it myself 5arge, but like I said I don't really know all that much about it

Can I get a socialists input on this?

Yes you can. In a capitalist economy, everyone is on his own. Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money, but that is enough for the very base: you can't buy anything luxorious. In good ol' 'Murica, Everyone is entirely on his own, you get no money in these cases or anything (correct me if I'm wrong).

In a communist economy, everything is owned by the state: you can't have an own company. Everyone gets the exact same amount of money, which isn't much at all. The problem was that the government gathered all the things to divide under the workers, but when they had it all, they wouldn't let go anymore: That was the problem. In theory communism (or marxism) works well: practically, it always goes wrong, except, to my knowledge, in Yugoslavia. My parents lived there and they had a very nice life, they weren't poor or anything, but neither very rich. Average you could say.

I'm a socialist, and I think a combination of capitalism and socialism would be very good. Everyone in class calls me a communist just because I'm a socialist, which, of course, makes no sense. I just think the rich have to pay more and the poor less, for example.
Hope you had a use of this.

I don't think you know anything about America. We have a mixed economy, which means we have a healthy balance of socialist and capitalist policies. If you can't afford health insurance, you can use public government funded health insurance which comes at a much cheaper rate with various payment plans. If you're unemployed, you get unemployment benefits, which give you money every month to pay for your basic needs. If you have a very low income, you can get Welfare which gives you money from the government every month and food stamps so you can get cheap/free food. Personally I think some of these benefits are abused to hell, and need to be reformed, but I don't think they should be taken away.

[Duuring]

Geert Wilders is, net als zijn partij (op het gebied van integratie) gewoon een rascist.
For the non-Dutch: This means, Geert Wilders is, just like his party (on the field of integration) a simple racist.
He's also a fascist, by the way. He's in complete control of his party, and no-one is allowed to offer their opinion to the press.

Back to political systems.

König, I'm not in favour of Communism, but you have to understand the money has to be taken from somewhere, and isn't it fair that those with the strongest shoulders carry the weight? (such a lovely socialist expression.
I know things in the US don't work like that, but (And with no disrespect to you personally, König) at least we have a universal social healthcare and people don't have to sleep out on the street because their banks gave them loans they can't afford. Sure, some people in the Netherlands choose to do that, because they don't want to live by the rules of a sleep-house or are ashamed to go there. We are a social nation, and sadly some people can't live by those rules.

Yes you can. In a capitalist economy, everyone is on his own. Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money, but that is enough for the very base: you can't buy anything luxorious.

Why should the government give money to someone who is perfectly capable of working, but doesn't?

That's one of the stupidiest things I've ever heard. Are you really saying that all work less people are CHOOSING to be work less? Have you got any idea how basic the people who get these unemployment pensions have to live? How many rules they have to stick too?

[Slick]

Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money

This happens in the states as well, and it is absolutely disgusting. If you are not physically or mentally disabled, you should not be getting free shit from people who actually aren't lazy fuckers.

Some may say "what if you can't find a job?". My proposal to that would be, the government can sustain you for 1-3 months, but after that, if you haven't a job, it's your own damn fault

@Duurnig, yes, there ARE tons of people here in the United States who choose to be workless, and rake in unemployment while sitting on their asses

[Duuring]

You'll be talking different when you lose your job and can't get employed again.

[5arge]

That's one of the stupidiest things I've ever heard. Are you really saying that all work less people are CHOOSING to be work less? Have you got any idea how basic the people who get these unemployment pensions have to live? How many rules they have to stick too?

The problem with our unemployment system in the US is that there are not very many rules while you are collecting the money. We used to require that people at least showed proof that they were actively looking for a job while they were collecting unemployment benefits, but we no longer check on that. So, there is a greater chance for abuse to occur, and it does.

[GoblinOverlord]

Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money

This happens in the states as well, and it is absolutely disgusting. If you are not physically or mentally disabled, you should not be getting free shit from people who actually aren't lazy fuckers.

Some may say "what if you can't find a job?". My proposal to that would be, the government can sustain you for 1-3 months, but after that, if you haven't a job, it's your own damn fault

@Duurnig, yes, there ARE tons of people here in the United States who choose to be workless, and rake in unemployment while sitting on their asses

So, according to you, people can just starve in the streets?

[König]

Yes you can. In a capitalist economy, everyone is on his own. Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money, but that is enough for the very base: you can't buy anything luxorious.

Why should the government give money to someone who is perfectly capable of working, but doesn't?

That's one of the stupidiest things I've ever heard. Are you really saying that all work less people are CHOOSING to be work less? Have you got any idea how basic the people who get these unemployment pensions have to live? How many rules they have to stick too?

Of course I'm not. I'm not talking about someone who has tried to get a job but been unable to do so, or someone who can't work. Not in the least. I'm talking about someone who is perfectly able to go out and find a reasonably well paying job, but refuses to do so.

So let me rephrase that; Why should the government give money to someone who A: is choosing not to be a productive member of society, and B: is refusing to try and get work when they are perfectly capable of doing so?

[Duuring]

In the NL, you have to send at least 2 job applications per month and proof of that to the department that runs these things. If you don't, or break the rules, your pensions gets shut at once.

Why not try this system?

[Deofuta]

I think the poor should take some personal responsibility and simply obtain a job through good old American pulled-up-by-the-bootstrap individuality. And by that I mean murder someone and take their job and lands.

[Slick]

Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money

This happens in the states as well, and it is absolutely disgusting. If you are not physically or mentally disabled, you should not be getting free shit from people who actually aren't lazy fuckers.

Some may say "what if you can't find a job?". My proposal to that would be, the government can sustain you for 1-3 months, but after that, if you haven't a job, it's your own damn fault

@Duurnig, yes, there ARE tons of people here in the United States who choose to be workless, and rake in unemployment while sitting on their asses

So, according to you, people can just starve in the streets?

Dude, if you haven't found a job in THREE months while getting free shit, something is up, and I'm not saying you deserve to starve, but you definitely don't deserve more free shit that other people have worked hard to give you. Also, homeless shelters feed people daily, in Houston at least.

Maybe jobs are incredibly hard to get in other states/countries, but in Texas we have a pretty decent economy going, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about when I say 3 months is a long time to not have found a job if you're ACTUALLY looking. That means, more than 2 applications a month

[Deofuta]

Not here in the Netherlands, if you can't work (or don't want to) You get money

This happens in the states as well, and it is absolutely disgusting. If you are not physically or mentally disabled, you should not be getting free shit from people who actually aren't lazy fuckers.

Some may say "what if you can't find a job?". My proposal to that would be, the government can sustain you for 1-3 months, but after that, if you haven't a job, it's your own damn fault

@Duurnig, yes, there ARE tons of people here in the United States who choose to be workless, and rake in unemployment while sitting on their asses

So, according to you, people can just starve in the streets?

Dude, if you haven't found a job in THREE months while getting free shit, something is up, and I'm not saying you deserve to starve, but you definitely don't deserve more free shit that other people have worked hard to give you.

Maybe jobs are incredibly hard to get in other states/countries, but in Texas we have a pretty decent economy going, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about when I say 3 months is a long time to not have found a job

It varies wildly depending on what job you are trying to get, or need. Should someone who has a chemical engineering degree take the easily available job at a fast food joint even though he knows it wouldn't pay for his family in the long run, and simultaneously put a huge dampener on searching for a career in his field of choice?

[Slick]

I've never thought of it that way before. But jeez, 3 months? Damn shame

[Slick]

edit: Whoops, didn't mean to quote myself there, ignore this