North American Napoleonic Wars League [Season 9]

[Amit_]

Given that I was involved in running NANWL for three entire seasons and nobody hounded me about what went on with Season 5, I'm going to go ahead and put an end to this. There is a lot of confusion about this situation and for good reason. Season 5 records are a mess.

Story Time

Two years ago, during Season 7, I added a channel on the NANWL TeamSpeak server to track all previous winners; there was an ugly gap where all seasons had a clear winner, but Season 5 did not. I spent actual days trying to figure out who the true winner was and even Cheeseypants and Windflower couldn't remember. The score keeping site for Season 5 is here: http://bracketcloud.com/tournament/37421. With Cheesey and Windflower being uncertain, I used this bracket to determine that the 91st were the winners; it shows that they won the most rounds. Therefore, on that bracket it officially shows that the 91st is in 1st place. Keep in mind, there are no specifics of what happened in either of the Season 5 threads so I had never heard of any controversy. There is a distinct absence of anything to suggest the title was still in dispute.

In March 2017, PapaBean, who was an admin on the server, decided to change the channel to reflect a tie between the 91st and the 63e. Lawbringer noticed this and requested it be changed back to just the 91st. So once again, I looked into it. What I had found was that everything about the controversy up to that point was and still is rumor, hearsay and anecdotal accounts. Nothing is substantiated. At some point that week, PapaBean messaged me on Steam about Lawbringer's request. He told me that during Season 6, he did not declare a winner for Season 5 because it was not his job to. I agree, it wasn't. I am thoroughly confused as to why PapaBean and NickCole have now turned to the Season 9 mods and demanded they answer for the lack of action by the Season 5 mods.

[close]

The Season 9 staff were directly involved in the Season 8 incident with Oatmeal and MATT has more recently implicated himself openly as an associate of Oatmeal's wrongdoings. The Season 9 staff have the ability and the obligation to uphold their duty of being fair and accountable to all participants. That is what they have done. Allowing MATT to play based on some old controversy not being resolved makes no sense and it's laughable that some people in this thread have openly supported such broken logic.

MATT & Oatmeal banned is fair but with similar evidence from different seasons should warrant 63e to get the league win instead of 91st. Until NWL does what is right & give 63e the win this will never settle.

There is no similar evidence. With regard to the final Season 5 match, nobody has produced anything concrete. Bill claiming that he played in the battle years later is not evidence. People giving their own possibly distorted account is not evidence. Oatmeal and MATT have admitted directly to me and Risk, respectively, that they interfered with a Season 8 match and sought to frame Irish, which they failed to do.

It is not the place for people who were not involved in Season 5 to muddy their hands in a situation that is riddled with inconsistencies. As I told PapaBean two years ago, it's unlikely that the evidence required to make the change will ever surface. By the nature of time and the inaction directly following Season 5, this was settled long ago. Furthermore, it in no way affects the ability for NANWL to continue. It has thrived for 3 seasons thereafter. It's now for you to decide whether or not you can accept that and continue to participate in NANWL as you have up until this point.

[Wastee]

Also just because of the whole "For the people by the people" thing in NANWL if enough people supported MATT & or Oatmeal being unbanned I'd see that as fair

[Eamon]

Also just because of the whole "For the people by the people" thing in NANWL if enough people supported MATT & or Oatmeal being unbanned I'd see that as fair

Sometimes the people are retarded

[~NickCole~]

Spoiler

Amit I brought up Season 5 as a example because of the fact that there hasn't been justice for it. I said they had similar evidence with people admitting they did it, others accounting for it with their stories & one video to prove it. I only brought up the S5 incident because of how similar they were from how I saw it & thought if they both are getting banned then 91st should be punished aswell. I believe Oatmeal shouldn't of got punished that bad (3-5 game suspension) for tking when it was the 91st's fault for not accounting for every member to make sure that they were 91st players. If 91st actually checked each member before the match to make sure every member was theirs then the whole Oatmeal & MATT thing wouldn't of happened in the first place. Sure what they both did was wrong and they both should be punished. However, part of the blame must be on the 91st Officer Core for not doing a good job for accounting for their members which is like I wish their punishments was shortened. Of course it is going to be hard to convince people that the "rumors" were true since it happens 3 seasons ago. When it was rumors after that match was over none of the mods bother to check the server logs at the time to confirm if it was true or not (Not sure why they didn't). Of course Bean didn't want to make the call S6 because it would seem bias but I hope Russian would actually want to try and do one more investigation on it. I can still play NWL Amit & not accept the 91st winning S5.

[close]

[Moraine]

Also just because of the whole "For the people by the people" thing in NANWL if enough people supported MATT & or Oatmeal being unbanned I'd see that as fair

Wrong. Just because a majority of people want something doesn't necessarily mean thats a good idea. If that was the case America would be a direct democracy but it ain't.

[|Viper|]

Also just because of the whole "For the people by the people" thing in NANWL if enough people supported MATT & or Oatmeal being unbanned I'd see that as fair

Wrong. Just because a majority of people want something doesn't necessarily mean thats a good idea. If that was the case America would be a direct democracy but it ain't.

Bot.

[sidney crosby]

i had the name 91st_zenbullet in their ts for like 4-5 months before it happened, I'd hop on for gfs when bored --- don't blame them for that.

[Runepkyz]

Let's be real the 91st won 'cause I was in it.

[Sanders]

Thesaurus.com doesn't have another synonym for how petty some of you are for still bringing this up. fuck off already
Season 5 drama fyi, Idc about MATT's situation b/c that's his fault

[Nappy Surena]

Spoiler

Amit I brought up Season 5 as a example because of the fact that there hasn't been justice for it. I said they had similar evidence with people admitting they did it, others accounting for it with their stories & one video to prove it. I only brought up the S5 incident because of how similar they were from how I saw it & thought if they both are getting banned then 91st should be punished aswell. I believe Oatmeal shouldn't of got punished that bad (3-5 game suspension) for tking when it was the 91st's fault for not accounting for every member to make sure that they were 91st players. If 91st actually checked each member before the match to make sure every member was theirs then the whole Oatmeal & MATT thing wouldn't of happened in the first place. Sure what they both did was wrong and they both should be punished. However, part of the blame must be on the 91st Officer Core for not doing a good job for accounting for their members which is like I wish their punishments was shortened. Of course it is going to be hard to convince people that the "rumors" were true since it happens 3 seasons ago. When it was rumors after that match was over none of the mods bother to check the server logs at the time to confirm if it was true or not (Not sure why they didn't). Of course Bean didn't want to make the call S6 because it would seem bias but I hope Russian would actually want to try and do one more investigation on it. I can still play NWL Amit & not accept the 91st winning S5.

[close]

The only people that would have the actual right (though not really) to change that outcome are the three that moderated
that season. I can't speak for Windflower but at that time Cheesey didn't give me access to the logs for the NANWL server and even then I don't remember hearing of these rumors until a couple of weeks after

I've talked with Amit before and he's right, though there are screenshots of players there's nothing solid like a screenshot of the teamspeak and never will be. 91st won that league no matter who does or doesn't like it. And even if you try to use this past Incident as ammunition for the Matt and Oatmeal ordeal, There are several differences We didn't know we were playing them as we just stopped using historical names and they already had tags on the teamspeak giving us no reason to question them, (Which is partly our fault I admit) Second noticeable difference there were actual logs of this Incident and we had GUIDs to go from and more proof to work from, as I stated earlier I had no access to NANWL server logs though that could've changed at just asking Cheesey, however I saw no reason to have them at that point as the season was already over.

There's more proof to go off of this situation and going back to S5 drama isn't going to change the current outcomes

However, placing the whole blame on an officer corp is Idiotic unless they knew who the smurfs actually were during the match. Sure, 91st officer corp wasn't completely blameless but it's the job of the Referees to ensure the people are playing are actual members no matter what time they came into the match.

[Dan the Seagull Chef]

NAPL>NANWL

[Pinoy12]

NAPL>NANWL

I'm the only NAPL double champ. You sir, are right.

[Niko_The_Great]

Community Name: Everyone knows me as Harper or PappaHarper
Steam Profile URL: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198045301487/
Current Regiment (if applicable): Regiment of Riflemen also apart of the 51st (which is attending this I think)
Have you read all the rules closely?: Yes, Funny enough I had the rules before they were published
Do you have any prior experience?: I've REF'd a few private One vs Ones but I've never done anything professional like this.
Why would you be a good referee?: I record every fight, showing things from my own perspective also as a defense for anyone to complain, I'm strict and non-bias. I'm against salt and toxicity, and I'd always make sure the rounds are enjoyable and chat is clean.
Will you make NANWL your priority?: I'd make it my Priority but I'd be away from the 3rd till 6th/7th missing the first week of NANWL but other than that I am happy to close a game, launch recording software and Referee a match.
(within reasonable limits)

[Piktonss]

Community Name: Everyone knows me as Harper or PappaHarper
Steam Profile URL: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198045301487/
Current Regiment (if applicable): Regiment of Riflemen also apart of the 51st (which is attending this I think)
Have you read all the rules closely?: Yes, Funny enough I had the rules before they were published
Do you have any prior experience?: I've REF'd a few private One vs Ones but I've never done anything professional like this.
Why would you be a good referee?: I record every fight, showing things from my own perspective also as a defense for anyone to complain, I'm strict and non-bias. I'm against salt and toxicity, and I'd always make sure the rounds are enjoyable and chat is clean.
Will you make NANWL your priority?: I'd make it my Priority but I'd be away from the 3rd till 6th/7th missing the first week of NANWL but other than that I am happy to close a game, launch recording software and Referee a match.
(within reasonable limits)

+1

[Amit_]

Also just because of the whole "For the people by the people" thing in NANWL if enough people supported MATT & or Oatmeal being unbanned I'd see that as fair

I think you misunderstood my words. In that quote, I am not saying that the mods are hostage to the collective votes of the community and must do what they say. Being allowed to share and voice opinions in a constructive manner without being shut down is what I was referring to. This was specifically in reference to Karth's unwillingness to negotiate at all based due to his personal grievances with Irish, among other things. Whatever the popular opinion, it is not fair at all to the participating regiments, Irish and the NANWL staff to unban Oatmeal and MATT.

Anyway, at this point, it appears that it is generally agreed upon that the record cannot be changed for Season 5. It's a shitty situation, but that is the reality of it. I expect the NANWL mods will be focusing their efforts on running Season 9, not wasting time by continuing to discuss reparations for a tournament long dead.