Ukraine

[MarshalKim]

Why don't we just wait until the research team comes with the results?

Which research team?
Will they release black box recordings?
Will the U.S release it's satellite images?

[Frederik]

In the second text(the german one)he says, thats they maybe wantet to shot down putins plane, which was planned to fly over ukraine.

[Duuring]

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/krieg-in-der-ukraine-mh-wurde-vom-boden-aus-abgeschossen-1.2386385

[Turin Turambar]

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/krieg-in-der-ukraine-mh-wurde-vom-boden-aus-abgeschossen-1.2386385

The only argument that has been stated why it could not have been the Su-25 is that the Su can't reach the appropriate height. This is just wrong. Its not like the aircraft would suddenly fall out of the sky. Even propeller-driven aircraft are capable of reaching 10km or more. The Su can easily climb onto 14km.
On Wikipedia you will find 7000m which has been changed to that number from "ca 10000m" in July 2014.
Another page (fliegerweb.com) stated 14600m which has been changed in November 2014.

Spoiler

[close]

Furthermore the article gives no argument whatsoever for the Buk thesis. But in the end these two litte liars explain that their version is now proven and that the other version has been refuted.

If you have a look at the links I posted you will find precise information why the damage fits perfectly for the weapon types an Su-25 carries and why it could not have been a Buk rocket.

[Duuring]

I'm sure you know more about the Su-25 then the guy who just designed it.

[Turin Turambar]

I'm sure you know more about the Su-25 then the guy who just designed it.

If you are capable of designing an aircraft it does not mean you are no liar.

[Duuring]

But it does mean you know what the aircraft can do, and what it not can do. And according to the designer of the air-craft, it's not capable of shooting down an passenger air-plane from 10 km high - He's not saying it can't fly as high.

[Turin Turambar]

So it probably must have been a Buk rocket system which carries Su-25 weaponry.

[Duuring]

That Haisenko guy says Russia showed evidence of a Ukrainian SU-25 shooting down MH-17. Does he mean the now famous and very badly photoshopped image that circles around the internet?

If he considers that proof, then this guy is nothing but an idiot.

[Turin Turambar]

That Haisenko guy says Russia showed evidence of a Ukrainian SU-25 shooting down MH-17. Does he mean the now famous and very badly photoshopped image that circles around the internet?

Afaik he later said that it probably had been a fake photo. Nonetheless I don't judge him that he believed it was right because it would had fit perfectly into his insights.
Having said that this incident doesn't make his analysis better or worse.

[Suede]

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/gaming-russian-offensive
What do you think, what scenario  is the most realistic?

[Augy]

[Turin Turambar]

Spoiler

[close]

+1

[Riddlez]

Why don't we just wait until the research team comes with the results?

Which research team?
Will they release black box recordings?
Will the U.S release it's satellite images?

Dutch-run research team.
They probably will. Why?
The Netherlands, unlike the Americans or the Ukraines or the Russians have only one interest in the outcome of the matter: finding out what happened to the 198 Dutch in that plane. The Netherlands has no interest in picking a side, rather they have an interest in the entire conflict sooner rather than later. That is why a Dutch team makes for as an objective one as you can get.

[MarshalKim]

Dutch-run research team.
The Netherlands, unlike the Americans , Ukrainians and Russians they only have one interest in the outcome of the matter: finding out what happened to the 198 Dutch in that plane. The Netherlands has no interest in picking a side, rather they have an interest in the entire conflict sooner rather than later. That is why a Dutch team makes for as an objective one as you can get.

Netherlands is an original NATO member. Netherlands already has picked a side.

They probably will. Why?

It's obviously important?