Author Topic: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)  (Read 5726 times)

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Offline Duuring

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Because we seem to scatter generic discussions on re-enactment on a handful of threads, we might as well have one with that distinct purpose. As always, I'll bitch about stuff. Please, join me in my bitching

Discussion topic to start us off (You can completely ignore it and start another one): Tents. A necessary item or a sheer unhistorical luxury? I haven't used an A-tent since 2014, and it's really do-able. ACW and WW1 have shelters, and in Napoleonic you just sleep next to the fire with your whole uniform+blanket and you're fine. No, it's not comfortable, but re-enactment isn't supposed to be that - isn't it all about experiencing how these men lived?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 05:48:06 pm by Duuring »

Offline joer5835

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 06:21:25 pm »
I believe tents are absolutely fine for two personal reasons:

1. Storage. People steal things. It actually happens at events. So having a place where I can at least hide my belongings when I am not in camp is rather nice. And yes true, they are still not safe, but in tents you can actually place items out of sight. And generally, it's harder to go into a tent, take something out and get away unnoticed.

2. Weather protection. Look, I get that we try to get as close to these guys from the past as we can. So if it rains, you are out in the rain. But still, I don't particulary fancy sitting at home sick, missing a week of Uni because I got a serious cold from sleeping in the rain because I had no tent, shelter or anything to cover me. A tent at least protects me from that. Same with really cold temperates or cold, hard wind.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 08:03:17 pm »
Well, obviously they are fine - I'm not saying we ought to rip off people's heads for using a tent.

People might steal things, but at the same time I just either leave everything of value at home, in someone's cartrunk or in my backpack that I always keep with me. The only things of value you ought to bring to a re-enactment are things like wallets, keys, documents and the like, which are small and easily kept in a bag.

You don't actually get a cold from bad weather, that's a common misconception. Obviously you can get hypothermia or something, but you really don't get hypothermia from sleeping outside in cold weather. The human body is quite capable of handling cold weather. Obviously we're not used to it, and yes you might get shitty evening with little sleep, but you get used to it. I can understand people of 30+ getting tents and field beds, because they have a much harder time adapting. But we're young and fit - we're tired and sore for a day or two and then we're fine.

My point is not that everyone should start burning their tent, because I don't care what other people do. My point is that it's actually not thát shitty to sleep without a tent, when done properly, and it improves the re-enactment experience greatly.

Of course, nobody should be sleeping outside, in a tent or no tent, during winter months. Because there was, or there ought to have been, no campaigns in the winter.

Offline Olafson

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 12:28:38 am »
If you only bring what you can carry on yourself, then no one is going to be able to steal anything, because it will always be around you.

Offline Riddlez

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 04:14:15 pm »
From a non-re-enactor perspective I can understand where you're coming from, Duuring and I'd probably try to imitate the sleeping situation as best as I could, too.

Buit, on the other hand, Aren't there some genius modern-day tricks out there with modern-day stuff, but hidden cleverly so it still looks accurate?

I have slept outside twice for roughly a week now, and I found (with the proper (hehe, modern) equipment, I am sleeping better in the woods than I do at home.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2016, 07:23:31 pm »
Using modern-day things and hiding them is not what re-enactment is (or at least should) be about.

Yes, sleeping in the woods in 2016 Dutch army equipment (and I presume also in a tent) is not hard. No surprise there.  :P

(Edit: That sounded a little more agressive then I intended. Added a smiley to show I'm a nice person)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:05:06 pm by Duuring »

Offline Cara

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 02:41:51 pm »
Tents are a necessary accomodation for us modern peoples who weren't used to live harshly. I agree that it should be always shared because personnal tents are not even historical for a general... However, if you do "Living History" events (reenacters who signed the "Living-History Charter") you won't get a tent, you will sleep as they did : in a barn or even outside with your overcoart and near the fire ! :)

Offline Duuring

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 06:03:52 pm »
I didn't sign any charter. Is it that thing Marc Middleton made/is always praising?

Tents were historically shared with 4 to 8 people, depending on the type. Personal tents are historical for generals and other senior officers. They even often had wagons with furniture and personal supplies as well.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:07:39 pm by Duuring »

Offline GeneralSquirts

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 06:06:23 pm »
I didn't sign any charter.

Tents should historically be shared with 4 to 8 people, depending on the type.

I'd share a tent with you any day duuring.  :-*

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Offline Duuring

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 06:07:08 pm »
I didn't sign any charter.

Tents should historically be shared with 4 to 8 people, depending on the type.

I'd share a tent with you any day duuring.  :-*

 ;D

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Offline Olafson

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2016, 07:08:55 pm »
French tents were first shared with 8 and then later in the war with 15 guys. If they even made it to the front, which they never did.

Who needs a tent anyway. If you have a blanket or two that is all you really need. They probably would not have had a blanket, but it is reasonable to assume that some of them might have had one, and even if they did not, its is still by miles better than a tent. It also requires less space and you can put it on your backpack. A proper wool blanket even covers you from rain (tho heavy rain will still be a pain ofc).
Take a slightly thinner blanket with you, the thick ones are nice, but they are way to heavy and way to large. Or you could also just take a half blanket with you. You know, the things they actually issued in WW1 and such, not a 2m long blanket, but one that covers your feet and most of you upper body.

Offline Cara

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2016, 07:27:32 pm »
I didn't sign any charter. Is it that thing Marc Middleton made/is always praising?

Tents were historically shared with 4 to 8 people, depending on the type. Personal tents are historical for generals and other senior officers. They even often had wagons with furniture and personal supplies as well.

Yes it is. And as Olafson said too, you won't find tents for an army in campaign. It was enough difficult to have the supplies follow that they didn't use wagons to carry a tent for 8 ppl (imagine nearly 400 tents for a single regiment !). Even senior officers and generals didn't have always a tent, they mostly slept in houses. If they were in a tent it was shared with aides etc.

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« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 07:36:01 pm by Carabino »

Offline Duuring

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2016, 08:25:09 pm »
Officers simply did as they pleased with their personal bagage. They were officers, of course - who would tell them otherwise? In '1812', it's described with much detail, with one colonel taking no less then twelve wagons, including supplywagons to feed his horses.

Do you have actual examples of officers sharing their tents with (lower-ranking) aides? Doesn't sound very 19th-century-class-society-ish.

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. They probably would not have had a blanket, but it is reasonable to assume that some of them might have had one

I know of at least two period drawings with men in greatcoats having an additional role on their backpack, and I also remember some French instruction on how a blanket was supposed to go inside the top of the backpack, hanging slighty out.

Offline Cara

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2016, 08:34:20 pm »
Sure Duuring, both situations are true indeed. Actually I could give you exact quotes from Memories (Vigo-Rousillon, Bourgogne...) where they explain that (it depends the campaings for sure) they shared a tent with the other bataillon officers for example. 19th-century-class society didn't apply exactly in the French army from 1789 to 1807/1808 where a lot of officiers were not aristocratic people. With the Empire, it changed when marechals and general de brigade were the new nobles and then had servants, lived in the local palaces even in campaign.

Offline joer5835

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Re: Duuring's Generic Re-enactment Discussion Corner (Bitching be allowed)
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2016, 08:42:16 pm »
The Revolution caused that a lot of the officer corps in the French army was made up of middle class citizens and some even normal soldiers that advanced through battlefield comissions. It probably was not common, but also not impossible that officers did sleep in tents with aides. 
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