The General Political Thread

[Edwin]

Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners

[Toffee]

Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners

It looks like there were some instigators but was there any immediate danger to Israeli lives? Because if so that's not justification to shoot those children, human shields or not. The fact that you can't discuss a topic without resorting to insults says a lot about you, not me.

[Audiate]

Palestinian kids that were used as human shields by the same innocent and sweet Palestinian "protesters", yes. 

jfc dude what did you just say

they did not grab their own children, lift them up to cover their bodies, and advance on the israelis with intent to do them harm and with suspect that they would be shot at, and were thus suspecting to be in need of the child-sized human shields, my fucking god dude, are you sane?

are you REALLY saying the palestinians are the bad guys in this issue? the israelis have been destroying palestinian families for decades, and are a major wedge against the well-being and future restabilization and recovery of the entire middle east, and dont you dare call me an anti-semite for even proposing that

was faris odeh really going to do damage to any israeli (***soldier!!!***, they were armed and equipped soldiers with helmets and body armor and tanks advancing in gaza during the al-aqsa intifada, not helpless victim civilians or something) by throwing little rocks at a fucking tank? was he truly a threat to the israeli people, or even those armed soldiers? can you truly say his death by gunfire was justifiable on the israeli soldiers' parts, and is the killing of any palestinian child, protester or not, peaceful or aggravated or upset, at the hands of israelis since then any different or more/less justifiable?

[Riddlez]

There is something called proportional violence after all...

[Sgt.Winters]

Nah the Palestinians just suck at throwing

[Edwin]

they did not grab their own children, lift them up to cover their bodies, and advance on the israelis with intent to do them harm and with suspect that they would be shot at, and were thus suspecting to be in need of the child-sized human shields, my fucking god dude, are you sane?

Hamas has an extensive history of encouraging civilians to get themselves shot or injured in order to garner attention from western media and the UN. Historically speaking, Palestinian civilians have always been encouraged to do so by the "government", sometimes blatantly using speakers on the Gaza strip (of which no Israelis live, funnily enough). Some have even been paid to do it. It's hardly surprising that Hamas has resorted to pushing children into the Israeli troops' line of fire. After all, they've used children for cover quite effectively in the past.

are you REALLY saying the palestinians are the bad guys in this issue? the israelis have been destroying palestinian families for decades, and are a major wedge against the well-being and future restabilization and recovery of the entire middle east, and dont you dare call me an anti-semite for even proposing that

It should be quite obvious that Hamas, and any civilians acting on behalf of Hamas, have been the main catalyst for violence and destruction at many Israeli-Palestinian clashes over the past year. The Palestinians are not looking for a peaceful resolution to their conflict, something that has been increasing apparent with this last outright assault on the Israeli border. Flying swastika kites armed with firebombs and coming on live television stating that you want to "burn Jews like the Nazis" is pretty far from pacifism and peaceful protest.

was faris odeh really going to do damage to any israeli (***soldier!!!***, they were armed and equipped soldiers with helmets and body armor and tanks advancing in gaza during the al-aqsa intifada, not helpless victim civilians or something) by throwing little rocks at a fucking tank? was he truly a threat to the israeli people, or even those armed soldiers? can you truly say his death by gunfire was justifiable on the israeli soldiers' parts, and is the killing of any palestinian child, protester or not, peaceful or aggravated or upset, at the hands of israelis since then any different or more/less justifiable?

I'm not denying that exceptional cases of brutality exist, but I believe they are inevitable given the sheer number of assault and harassment directed at Israeli troops, combined with the willingness of Palestinians to put themselves in harm way. Both sides are guilty of such atrocities.

All in all, Israel has been pretty commendable with how they acted during this most recent assault on their border: 40,000 "protesters", the majority acting extremely violently, and only ~60 deaths (50 of them being outspoken terrorists). Had the masses of protesters not been held off by the Israeli military and broken through the border, I suspect the number of causalities would have been much higher.

Also: https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/50-Hamas-members-reportedly-killed-during-Mondays-Gaza-protests-556627

Yeah, you're backing the wrong side here.

[Toffee]

So anybody is to blame except the soldiers who shot the children? As Riddlez said, Proportional response. There was no imminent threat to Israeli lives so why were shots fired?

[Riddlez]

Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.

[Furrnox]

Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.

Nothing is going to come of it though because it's Palestinians heh.

Spoiler

[close]

Trump the God Emperor have spoken.

[Audiate]

Terrorism does not equate to evil to me. There's people who are terrorists for terrible causes, but there are people who fight as rebels for their beliefs and their homes and are labeled as terrorists by those who they are against and I don't equate them to the terribleness of known terror organizations. I'm not on the right side, there is no "correct" side, you're a moron for thinking it works like that. I stand for what I believe is right in the world, and I believe that the Palestinian people are not the oppressors here, not the aggressors here, and are certainly not the ones in the wrong. The most terrible part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that so few of either side are familiar with what pre-Israel Palestine was like. All they know is the conflict between the two, and its now become a generational, escalating conflict, and with the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Palestinians feel that their lives are at an end. It's not a surprise many would die to see their people live.

Spoiler

[close]

Trump the God Emperor have spoken.

k e e k

[Edwin]

Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.

Attacking/attempting to breach the border of most countries will get you shot. CBP don't use their tasers that often.

Terrorism does not equate to evil to me. There's people who are terrorists for terrible causes, but there are people who fight as rebels for their beliefs and their homes and are labeled as terrorists by those who they are against and I don't equate them to the terribleness of known terror organizations. I'm not on the right side, there is no "correct" side, you're a moron for thinking it works like that. I stand for what I believe is right in the world, and I believe that the Palestinian people are not the oppressors here, not the aggressors here, and are certainly not the ones in the wrong. The most terrible part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that so few of either side are familiar with what pre-Israel Palestine was like. All they know is the conflict between the two, and its now become a generational, escalating conflict, and with the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Palestinians feel that their lives are at an end. It's not a surprise many would die to see their people live.

Epic. I'm not very familiar with this copypasta.

[Toffee]

Ah so moving to a border fence got those kids shot. I understand now

[Edwin]

Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners

[Toffee]

Funny you keep reverting back to that when I was only repeating what you said really. The facts are here: No imminent threat to the lives of the soldiers; they shoot children. How can you defend that?

[Edwin]

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