Author Topic: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?  (Read 9963 times)

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Offline Bruin

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What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« on: April 29, 2014, 05:31:17 am »
This may be vague and a total what if question. What if Napoleon called the United States of America to help him fight in Europe; and America did. Would this have helped Napoleon possibly capture victory or nothing at all. Would have Russia invaded mainland America? Because at this time Russia owned Alaska.


Offline Killington

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2014, 05:40:47 am »
While my knowledge of history is pretty shit, I would think that they would not be able to do anything, already being at a stalemate on their home ground just fighting colonial British forces, let alone contributing to the European war. I don't think they could've helped over there even if they wanted to.
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Offline George385

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2014, 06:52:56 am »
The title says what if the war of 1812 came to Europe.. But the OP says what if napoleon called for American support and America went in..

First of all, the war of 1812 and the napeleonic wars are completely different. And second, the napoleonic wars weren't fought in America, as the title suggests that it was..

Are you asking both questions?

Offline joer5835

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2014, 01:04:53 pm »
The US Army was tiny compared to Bony's Grande Armée.

The US navy was in position to transport their troops, the ships were simply too small. Even if they did transport their troops, they would have been intercepted by the British Royal Navy. The US Navy was outnumbered at least 10 to 1 compared to the British Royal Navy.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 01:30:51 pm by joer5835 »
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Offline Duuring

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2014, 01:12:10 pm »
A few more infantry regiments would not have made a difference in continental Europa. It would, however, have made a difference in the usually small-scaled warfare in the Americas and could have enabled the British to carry on the fight (if they wanted). One of the reasons the war stopped in 1814 is that Britain and the USA were simply both tired of fighting.

The USA was never going to conquer Canada and the British were actually in a position were they could demand concessions. But they didn't, apparently because that would piss off the Prussians and Russians who weren't allowed to landgrab in Europa.

Plus, as Joer pointed out, the US navy was in no position to offer transport to thousands of troops.

But for the sake of argument, what year are we talking about? 1812?

Offline Ryner

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2014, 03:32:29 pm »
America only emerged as a world power after the Spanish American war, nearly a century after the war of 1812... We wouldn't have stood a chance against superior European forces in head to head combat. The logistics, man power, and training simply wasn't there.

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Offline DeoVindice61

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2014, 08:20:36 pm »
Fuck yeah we would get up there, send the moh-reens in and fuck shit up. Hell we Americans will pwn you shitheads with m16 and 50 cal baby. Napoleon will not get our support. We will come to TAKE europe as ours.

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Offline Friedrich

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 08:27:09 pm »
This may be vague and a total what if question. What if Napoleon called the United States of America to help him fight in Europe; and America did. Would this have helped Napoleon possibly capture victory or nothing at all. Would have Russia invaded mainland America? Because at this time Russia owned Alaska.
Nothing.

Because France was still in war with Britain (-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_war ). It would have changed nothing, because USA hadn't the navy to bring any troops to europe. Luckily USA benefited of the war between France and Britain, because it has bound all the important british warships and land forces in europe. Hell, I would have liked to see how some ships-of-the-line pulverized the USS Constitution (no offense ofc). And USA tried to get Canada from Britain, so they wouldn't have had anyway any reserves left to help France.

And if Russia would entered in war with USA? Nothing either. Russia had some ambitions on the pacific coast of north america, especially in Alaska. But this colony was unprofitable. So they wouldn't have waste any troops there. They needed all against France. And btw USA had still not the ressources to pass the middle west. And it hadn't any ambitions there. Or it would have had get some problems with spain there soon. And as such a young republic, the wouldn't have risked it.



Offline Bruin

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 11:27:52 pm »
Interesting response Friedrich.

Offline Menelaos

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 06:09:51 pm »
If they actually trained an army, maybe. Militia was too embedded at this time to make a difference.

Offline Skipper

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 09:02:49 pm »
You mean what if the USA got involved in the Napoleonic Wars? 1812 was the US failed invasion of Canada resulting in what is described as a stalemate, despite Britain not only maintaining full naval dominance but also burning the white house and aiding Canada in its liberation.

If USA tried to help in the Napoleonic Wars nothing much would happen. The Royal Navy dominated the Atlantic so the US would have difficulty. The Royal Navy could blockade US ports or stay in the Atlantic for a long time thanks to naval doctrines. This was how Britain kept France in check.

A quote from Nelson: "Bonaparte has often made his boast that our fleet would be worn out by keeping the sea and that his was kept in order and increasing by staying in port; but know he finds, I fancy, if Emperors hear the truth, that his fleet suffers more in a night than ours in one year."

If the US did manage to somehow get to Europe how could they aid? It was mainly the winter that killed le grande armee so US troops would not help there. They could not invade already invaded land. And an attack on Britain would no doubt fail, just as it did when the French attempted in Ireland.

They could go to the peninsula however, considering the US relied on lots of militia, they would have a hard time doing anything against the British and Portugese veterans there; similar to how much they struggled against the heavy trained and disciplined peninsula veterans in the war of 1812.

In other words, the US would not be able to do anything major. They attempted to attack the Royal Navy and disrupt shipping lines to help France in reality but that failed too.
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Offline FrithBiscuit

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2014, 10:28:32 pm »
So... Rekt?
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Offline Bruin

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 02:30:49 am »
1812 was the US failed invasion of Canada resulting in what is described as a stalemate, despite Britain not only maintaining full naval dominance but also burning the white house and aiding Canada in its liberation.
Didn't Britain want the Mississippi River?

Offline Friedrich

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 11:23:17 pm »
1812 was the US failed invasion of Canada resulting in what is described as a stalemate, despite Britain not only maintaining full naval dominance but also burning the white house and aiding Canada in its liberation.
Didn't Britain want the Mississippi River?
No, they just opened a second front to devide american forces.



Offline Duuring

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Re: What if the War of 1812 came to Europe?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 11:28:35 pm »
How can you possibly claim a river?