Let's discuss: Reenacting!

[Duuring]

I've also been suggested to buy an original musket, to circumvent the whole Dutch 85e-bullshit, but I just don't have the 1500 euro for it laying around anywhere at this stage of my life. Also I don't think it completely circumvents the issue anyway.

We just had a nice, chill fortification event in France as East-Prussian Landwehr. We'll upload some photo's soon.

[Olafson]

You can buy good quality originals for 500-600 euro in France if you are lucky. You just need to keep checking the offers.

Vince and I bought 2 Originals in one go for just 600 there, I believe he is still using one of them.

[Riddlez]

Also I don't think it completely circumvents the issue anyway.

The only way they can check in what year the weapon has been made is by checking the barrel inscription... So long as the weapon has been produced before 1870 it's excempted from the WWM.



EDIT: to be sure I am live on the phone with the Government infromation desk =P

EDIT EDIT: He didn't know, he directed me to Justis, a government legal advise bureau where you can go for questions about the WWM, and where you get the weapon permits

[Duuring]

I know, that's not what I meant. Some events only grant permits that allow us to shoot on the event terrain with the specific demand that all re-enactors are members of LPLG groups (or are foreigners). Loevestein, for example, does this. Mind you, the Dutch 85e breaks this law all the time, but that's not really the point.

You can buy good quality originals for 500-600 euro in France if you are lucky. You just need to keep checking the offers.

Vince and I bought 2 Originals in one go for just 600 there, I believe he is still using one of them.

That sounds more like it.

[Riddlez]

I know, that's not what I meant. Some events only grant permits that allow us to shoot on the event terrain with the specific demand that all re-enactors are members of LPLG groups (or are foreigners). Loevestein, for example, does this. Mind you, the Dutch 85e breaks this law all the time, but that's not really the point.

Yes but isn't the 85e part of the LPLG, so for me it wouldn't matter... another story with you though =P It doesn't change the status of firearm regulation...

[Vincenzo]

You can buy good quality originals for 500-600 euro in France if you are lucky. You just need to keep checking the offers.

Vince and I bought 2 Originals in one go for just 600 there, I believe he is still using one of them.

That sounds more like it.

Well thats true, one of them was completely unusable and the other is very very broken and I used it for a year (it has a manual how to use) and is now hanging on my wall doing nothing.
The lock is fine. the barrel itself is fine, things dont fit together good and after 10 shots it just stops working properly because fouling falls into the lock, (barrel and lock dont fit together properly) and that's that.. Maybe its fixable but I was unable..

In general sure you need to be lucky, but that example of a gun is seriously fucked up.. if you want a decent gun i think 1000 is what you have to spend quite quickly.

[Olafson]

The Carbine was perfectly usable, I just had no use for it. I sold it for 400 bucks.

About your gun, fair enough. I guess for 300 euro it is still an okay deal though.

[zac]

The one thing I am proud of down here is that we have a total ban on using original muskets at events...pistols etc are another story but muskets njet. Too many issues in the 1980's etc besides the fact that in most cases they 'belong in a museum'. Pedersoli all the way

[Vincenzo]

The one thing I am proud of down here is that we have a total ban on using original muskets at events...pistols etc are another story but muskets njet. Too many issues in the 1980's etc besides the fact that in most cases they 'belong in a museum'. Pedersoli all the way

It's silly, and orig in good condition is actually more safe than most of the replicas people are running around with on events, like those from India/Pakistan.
Also Pedersoli is not some Holy company, I have personally seen Pedersoli guns break.
Also the Pedersoli replica's are having quite some inaccuracies, they are much too thick and too heavy compared to the orig guns.
The orig metal is much much stronger than the modern poured metal. You will be surprised.
The general idea in any case is that if people take care about their guns properly, use proper drill so they don't try to shoot 8 loads or their ramrod, things should be safe.

The story about those guns belonging in the museum also makes no sense, they were made to shoot, and that's what we do with them.
There are plenty of old guns laying around in peoples private ownership, and museums are filled with musket, a museum local to Olaf for instance has 40 muskets in the archive and only display the two best looking ones, it's senseless to claim they should all be in museums.

[zac]

Firstly I agree within say the context of using original french/european muskets as those that have survived would generally be in atleast a somewhat decent state. Here though it's different as the Brown Bess was being used well into the 1860's.

and I agree in part, but here as mentioned before the choice is India/Pakistan or Pedersoli. And trust me, we see just as much issues with Pedersoli here, but they produce the best short pattern bess there is. The quality is also unmatched for the price

I forgot most of my fellow Anglo's have escaped from here so I do apologise. That was more of a sarcastic meme than anything :p ..although my ' official' position should my masters professor ever find this is that they all indeed belong in museums

I probably should have put a notice that most of my comments were within the context of Australia.

[Olafson]

Btw. I saw beginnings of your new uniform on Facebook and its looking pretty noice.

[Riddlez]

Alright so I just gfot off the phone with Justis. This is information that is relevant to the Dutch:

The exemption from the LAw on Weapons and Ammunuitions for 'classical firearms' (produced prior to 1870) only applies to handing over (overdragen), transportation, possession and having access to (voorhanden hebben) the firearm in question. Usage, modification e.g. do NOT fall under this exemption, so a permit is required.

This not only seems to apply to actually firing the weapon but also using it on an event anyway...

[Olafson]

Obviously, in the NL Flintlocks are not exempt from the license to use/carry. In Germany for example they are exempt from it, which means that I can legally carry a Flintlock anywhere I want.

This is why on events in the NL the organization has to request (and pretty much always does) a special carry license for firearms for the area of the event/day. I.e. as long as you go to properly organized events it is totally legal to carry your firearm.
This does obviously not include firing your firearm. You need a license to do that in the NL (Unless you are on a firing range) (If you are Dutch). Additionally the organizor also needs to request the license to fire on the event. Unless you have both your personal and the events license you can not shoot your gun. You are totally fine to shoot outside of the NL though. (Ofc. again depending on the country the organization has to request a license for that, but no personal license is required)

[Duuring]

I thought firing fell under the event permit? If not, we might as well stop re-enacting in the Netherlands altogether.

[Olafson]

I am pretty sure you need a blackpowder license for that?

And why? All non Dutch can easily shoot there, the dutch just do not fire. Not the end of the world. Besides, no one ever checks this shit anyway.