Lancers :/

[Matim]

If your point is, that there is nothing wrong with having badass hussar-lancer that has got huge advantage over any other cav unit, then ok, i appreciate it.

Waiting for other opinions.

[sir Luca]

It has always seemed to me that the most important in NW are line battles. GF events are only added to them and changing the balance of the game only for a single server is not a good idea.
Anyway, it is very easy to modify the statistics of units on the server and if the overall balance does not fit for your game type, the owner can improved it. If you would be the problme, I will help.

[Tali]

If your point is, that there is nothing wrong with having badass hussar-lancer that has got huge advantage over any other cav unit, then ok, i appreciate it.

Waiting for other opinions.

Let's put down some facts.

Here is the stats for the french hussar ranker:

Spoiler

1h Weapons: 160 wpf
Polearms (Bayonets): 30 wpf
Crossbows (Muskets): 30 wpf

Strength: 7
Agility: 5
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 3
Athletics: 0
Riding: 6

[close]

And here is those for the french Lancer ranker:

Spoiler

1h Weapons: 50 wpf
Polearms (Bayonets): 130 wpf
Crossbows (Muskets): 40 wpf

Strength: 7
Agility: 5
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 3
Athletics: 0
Riding: 6

[close]

What we can see here is that the difference lies in the weaponry, Lancers are better with polearms, and Hussars are better with Swords. No big surprise.

But let us bring their horses into the equation.

French Hussar horse:

Spoiler

Armor: 6
Hitpoints: 80
Speed: 45
Manueverability: 50
Riding Skill: 3
Horse Size: 104
Charge Damage: 19c

[close]

French Lancer Horse:

Spoiler

Armor: 6
Hitpoints: 80
Speed: 41
Manueverability: 41
Riding Skill: 3
Horse Size: 104
Charge Damage: 17c

[close]

So, Lancer horses are Slower, less manouverable and got less charge damage. Once again, not a big surprise.

For good measure, lets get the french Cuirsassier horse in here as well.

Spoiler

Armor: 12
Hitpoints: 135
Speed: 38
Manueverability: 37
Riding Skill: 3
Horse Size: 108
Charge Damage: 32c

[close]

So, a Cuirassier horse got double the armor, 55 more hitpoints, only 3 less in speed (roughly 13%), 4 less in Manouverability (Roughly 10%), and It got a Charge Damage increase of roughly 60-80%.

So, your statement about "Hussar lancers" is plain wrong. As you can see, the difference between Hussar horses - Lancer Horses is at smallest equally as big as Lancer Horses - Heavy Horses.

[dooomninja]

i just want to say you keep going on about them having Hussar Horses when they don't stats are below

Spoiler

Hussar Horse

A.K.A. Light Horse
Armor: 6
Hitpoints: 80
Speed: 45
Manueverability: 50
Riding Skill: 3
Horse Size: 104
Charge Damage: 19c

[close]

Lancer Horse

A.K.A. Light Horse
Armor: 6
Hitpoints: 80
Speed: 41
Manueverability: 41
Riding Skill: 3
Horse Size: 104
Charge Damage: 17c

[close]

[close]

as you can see they are worse than the hussar horse in most ways and equal on every thing else, also i don't like the idea of giving them heavy horses as then thy will be even harder to take down, currently there horse is there main weakness, kill that and they are worthless, even more so than other cave how still have the stats to fight on foot. if they where to be nerfed i think the best thing to do would be to lower IF and PS, to make them slightly weaker without utterly destroying them.

[Matim]

It has always seemed to me that the most important in NW are line battles. GF events are only added to them and changing the balance of the game only for a single server is not a good idea.

Yup, but gf shows how one cav is good against other. Don't forget that struggles cav vs cav take place on lb's as well.

@Tali
Basically i was talking about the speed of the lancer, which is still big, but anyway thank you for these statistics. Make everything clearer.

@doomninja
My point is that both speed and range of the lancer don't allow cuirassiers to kill them 1 vs 1, what makes them mega-effective in bigger groups.

@Mad_man
Lancers are faster that heavy cavalry

Spoiler

May i ask, what are you colonel of?

[close]

[Mad_man1]

Very important point about cuirassier horses also is that they are heavy ! You can risk taking one hit from the lance just to stop his horse with your own, don't be afraid of it and you'll be able to do it.

[Blacky]

I love your advice : We have so many captain Obvious in this forum. 

[Mad_man1]

That's colonel obvious to you

[Andriej]

To OP,

Have you even played Native? Try out cavalry there before telling that Lancers are OP.

Stop whining and learn how to play against the Lancers.

[Matim]

Another cpt. Obvious
In native i can choose my eq. Here i can't.

I can kill "normal" lancers, but this class is just too easy to play. You need no skill to ride around and stick your lance somwhere, or just couch is and charge another horseman while fighting. My point is that lancers should be harder to play and require more skill just as heavy cav and hussars do.

[Matthew]

Another cpt. Obvious
In native i can choose my eq. Here i can't.

I can kill "normal" lancers, but this class is just too easy to play. You need no skill to ride around and stick your lance somwhere, or just couch is and charge another horseman while fighting. My point is that lancers should be harder to play and require more skill just as heavy cav and hussars do.

From my experience on cgf lancers are only a problem when you are not moving, as a hussar I nearlyy always manage to turn my horse and then slash across them.

[Angelus Lapsus Revan]

The most annoying, op and best cav unit.
Lancers are almost as fast as hussars, got freaking lances that are long and fast as hell and can both couch lances and thrust them.
There is just no way to kill skilled lancer with a cuirassier and it's almost impossible to do it with hussar. They have no disadventages.
The best way to change it is to make lancers able only to couch the lance, make the lances really slower or give lancers heavy horses.
Thanks for your attention.

Lol...Another person saying Lancers are OP. I've been dealing with this since the MM days.

Lancers are 'almost' as fast as hussars....but hussars can still kick a lancers ass.
It's that speed they have....
There is a way to kill skilled lancers....I'm a skilled lancer...and I've been killed many times by, for example, Pepper of the 1erPLG, who uses hussar mainly, and Griffith of the 256th(?)...Who also always uses hussar. We all have fun fighting each other because we all know we're so skilled. We all know that we need to concentrate a lot to make sure we get the other.

"it's almost impossible to do it with hussar"....I can tell you right now, that, you don't know what you're talking about.

"The best way to change it is to make lancers able only to couch the lance, make the lances really slower or give lancers heavy horses."......Again...you don't know what you're talking about. Only being able to use couched lance?

1. You never played Lancer or haven't played Lancer class enough to know how stupid this sounds.
2. Veteran/Skilled Lancers don't really like using couched lance...simply because it doesn't have a lot of reach as a simple thrust of a lance does.
3. Give Lancers slower horses? Again...you don't know what you're talking about.


My advice to you is, now don't get mad, to get some skill.
Yes...some skill.

I've dealt with too many noob players from both the Cav classes and mainly infantry classes saying how OP Lancers are.

I've also dealt with a good chunk of players who are actually good at the game.
And can also deal with lancers.
Both good Infantry Players and Cavalry players.
I already gave you two examples of some of the best Cavalry players I've seen, Pepper and Griffith.

Good Infantry players?
There is,
Chester, LittleGuy, Ghosty, Colonys.

Why don't all of these good veteran players don't whine/complain about lancers and you do?
Because they know how to play the game.
Because they're actually good at the game.

So go get some skill please.


P.S
Anyone who whines about any in-game class is like if someone were to say

"Hello my name is rock I think scissors is ok but paper should be nerfed."

That's how silly you sound.
Get skill. Get skill. Get skill.

P.S.S
Like someone already said on Page One....lancers were already nerfed from MM.....
If you get enough whiny/noobish/ no skilled players to complain about something that they don't understand....then the highers will change it...because majority rules..

And as a experienced cavalry player....(Since Cavalry is the minority in this community) we really have no say in anything.
And it really pisses me off when some noobish player(s) comes whining about Lancers.
Especially the little weirdos who have rarely played as Lancer, Rarely played as lancer but yet have a full understanding of it.

We Lancers already have it hard enough.
With the Infantry being able to shoot us from afar, middle, or short distance.
With Infantry being able to kill us when we get dehorsed and we have our faces in the ground.

With Hussars having the upper hand in speed and killing us whilst on top of horses.
With Heavy Cavarly having their very tough horse, being able to take more hits.

Let us lancers have what we have!

[Matim]

You know nothing about me, my regiment nor skill of both, so don't even try to say that i'm just noob or i can't play. I won't answer to your "message". First stop hating and offending.

[sir Luca]

Where do you see the hating and offending here? Angelus only says, and I agree, that you do not have sufficient skills and trying to convince us to unnecessary interference in the balance of the game. I'll write again, you have problems on a cavalry groupfigting server, edit the balance only on this server, no need to modify the game.

[Oposum]

Lancers are far from being OP, in MM it was different story mainly because then couched lance outreached bayonet (meaning inf with unloaded guns were free kills for lancer) and ability to block with lance made skilled lancers impervious to hussars. However, now their horses are even crappier and they cannot block with lance and bayonets got longer.
Lancers mainly backstab infantry (which cannot make them OP since any class can backstab), while against cavalry they have upper hand against heavy cav while hussars can easily keep out of lances range or dodge it until they get an opening, when lancer dies because he cannot block.

You know nothing about me, my regiment nor skill of both, so don't even try to say that i'm just noob or i can't play. I won't answer to your "message". First stop hating and offending.

Revan might not be the sharpest pencil in the drawer, but hes got a point.
As have been shown before, lancers get crappier horses than other classes. They cannot harm aware infantry (since blocking down is easy, and trying to couch lance aware infantry will just get you stabbed), once they get their horses reared they're dead and they cannot go toe to toe with hussars. Really, they're only good against heavy cavalry and dragoons (everyone's good against dragoons though).
Considering heavy cavalry goes thru infantry as hot knife thru butter, I consider that a fair trade-off.