Author Topic: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?  (Read 6820 times)

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Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 09:54:35 pm »
It ended exactly a day after the First World War really ended.

Very close to the actual casualties too, except for France, who lost 3 million instead of 1.3. So the outcome could possibly have been similiar to WW1, but at some point it took a drastic change, making me the winner. I'm guessin it all had to do with me invading Russia first.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Hawke

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 11:51:26 pm »
That game seems pretty interesting, actually. I'll have to see about getting it.

Offline Schmidtche

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 01:19:55 pm »
Schlieffen was the best option they had.

They rightfully assumed that they couldn't beat Russia quickly, due to its sheer size.
They also knew that Germany couldn't afford a long war, due to lack of ressources within Germany. (especially Iron)

So the only option was to attack the smaller (in size) country with full force and taking it out as soon as possible.
They miscalculated regarding Britain, which was the blunder that in the end lost them the war, though the British didn't have that much impact in August 14.

Biggest additional mistake was to weaken the plan, by weakening the right wing in favor of the left before the war and by pulling out 2 Korps and sending them to the east in August 14. (They were desperatly missed in the west and were too late to fight at Tannenberg in the East)

Depending whether a victory at the Marne would have changed thing: Yes. Paris is the heart of France in every way, it would have been to huge a blow to moral to lose it. Not to mention economical and logistical problems it would have caused.

Yes, i know they wanted to defeat France as quickly as possible and then turn on Russia, but they would still have the UK and commonwealth able to strike them in the back, and if they would try to strangle the UK into submission with submarines they would just bring the USA into the war. Thus basically a replay of WW2, not sure if that would be great.

Wishfull thinking reigned surpreme I guess, they still hoped England would remain neutral even after they invaded Belgium.
Hell they even tried to bully Belgium inton giving them Military Access, which of course Belgium wouldn't do as they didn't want to oppose France.

Times were different in 1914-18 though. Amphibial operations weren't as far developed as in the 1940s (see Gallipoli), Air Raids also weren't really effective, so the UK would have sat on its Island unable to do anything in Europe. Same problem for US troops, if they had joined.

Offline BSM 'Shut up' Williams

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 04:27:53 pm »
The world would've been better if the Germans won!

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Offline Duuring

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 04:53:20 pm »
Poland would be non-existent, but whatever.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 06:49:36 pm »
Poland would be non-existent, but whatever.

Or a German puppet state, you never know.


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Offline Prince_Eugen

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 07:25:10 pm »
The world would've been better if the Germans won!
How better? If not a Russian Revolution, the Germany could cease to exist in the 1915-16.

Offline Hawke

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2013, 08:04:33 pm »
The world would've been better if the Germans won!
Imagine how much more Hitler would fuck things up if he came to power.

Offline Allasaphore

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2013, 08:13:58 pm »
The world would've been better if the Germans won!
Imagine how much more Hitler would fuck things up if he came to power.

He wouldn't have been able to rise to power. There would likely still be a Kaiser, and there wouldn't be anyone to blame for losing the war-they would have won already. The issues brought up by the Nazi party would have had little support (not that they would have become the supreme head of the country), with the exception to anti-bolshevism and perhaps lebensraum, the latter less likely as Germany would have retained Poland and perhaps annexed portions of Russia. We'd be getting into an alternate history 1918 there, though.

Offline Hawke

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 08:47:25 pm »
Notice that I said 'If' not 'When'. I'm fully aware that he wouldn't have been able to.

Offline Allasaphore

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 09:06:56 pm »
Notice that I said 'If' not 'When'. I'm fully aware that he wouldn't have been able to.

I know you said "if". Just voicing that the chance of that happening would have been highly improbable, to the point that its likelihood would be less than a percentile. The chance would have been incredibly minuscule.

Though in the incredibly unlikely event that he did supplant the Kaiser...

Good game Europe. On the bright side, Japan might not have aligned with him, as they never would have been shorted out on the spoils of the First World War (which did happen).

So many "what ifs". Wooooo

Offline BSM 'Shut up' Williams

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 10:18:44 pm »
Poland would be non-existent, but whatever.

In that case, I like how history went. Not about Hitler or Stalin or anything, (I don't like them).

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Offline Duuring

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2013, 10:52:51 pm »
Poland would be non-existent, but whatever.

In that case, I like how history went. Not about Hitler or Stalin or anything, (I don't like them).

Your logic sir, is astounding.

Offline Van_Hulstein

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 11:08:37 pm »
And suddenly the Netherlands attacked Germany in their back and named the attack "Blitsoorlog" and occupied Germany.
Belgium was liberated and added to the Netherlands.
The Netherlands started a war against the allies and many ex-soldiers from Germany joined with them.

This would havs been so beautiful  :) :'(
Nunc aut nunquam

Offline Hawke

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Re: WW1 debate: Schlieffen plan or not?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 11:20:29 pm »
And suddenly the Netherlands attacked Germany in their back and named the attack "Blitsoorlog" and occupied Germany.
Belgium was liberated and added to the Netherlands.
The Netherlands started a war against the allies and many ex-soldiers from Germany joined with them.

This would havs been so beautiful  :) :'(
And then got conquered and destroyed.