Poll

Could Germany have won on the eastern front?

Yes Easily
2 (14.3%)
No, impossible
6 (42.9%)
Yes But with heavy loss, a pyrrhic victory
6 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: June 11, 2018, 09:42:55 pm

Author Topic: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?  (Read 13272 times)

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Offline Derps9

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Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« on: June 06, 2018, 09:42:55 pm »
Could Germany have won ww2??? Lets see what the community thinks  ;D

Offline Cazasar

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 09:48:28 pm »
No. The entire Eastern Campaign was the idea of a lunatic and completely doomed from the get go.
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Offline William

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 10:16:24 pm »
Had Japan joined in then I believe that Germany could have easily won. The Siberian divisions were key to defending Moscow and were only sent there after Russian intelligence confirmed Japanese neutrality over the area. If Japan had contested further it is likely those divisions would have never arrived or arrived too late to defend Moscow.

That being said, even without the Japanese I still don't think they could win due to the stretch of supply lines and size of Russia.
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Offline Cazasar

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 11:16:42 pm »
Had Japan joined in then I believe that Germany could have easily won. The Siberian divisions were key to defending Moscow and were only sent there after Russian intelligence confirmed Japanese neutrality over the area. If Japan had contested further it is likely those divisions would have never arrived or arrived too late to defend Moscow.

That being said, even without the Japanese I still don't think they could win due to the stretch of supply lines and size of Russia.
What makes you think they could have easily taken moscow then? And what would that even achieve. Russia isnt france, its not a capture the flag game.
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Offline William

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 11:19:39 pm »
Had Japan joined in then I believe that Germany could have easily won. The Siberian divisions were key to defending Moscow and were only sent there after Russian intelligence confirmed Japanese neutrality over the area. If Japan had contested further it is likely those divisions would have never arrived or arrived too late to defend Moscow.

That being said, even without the Japanese I still don't think they could win due to the stretch of supply lines and size of Russia.
What makes you think they could have easily taken moscow then? And what would that even achieve. Russia isnt france, its not a capture the flag game.
No, but Stalin was staying in Moscow as a show of support and strength. Had Moscow been overrun then it is presumable that the Soviet chain of command would have imploded or fragmented with his death or capture. The capture of Russia would have provided vital oil reserves to the Germans alongside huge agricultural yields. I'm not saying Moscow would be a total victory but it would definitely be a huge blow and potentially get a 'surrender' of some sorts.
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god damn, Anthony is smart, he was able to get the shit AEF to tie with the best reg in the game. The tactical geniusness needed to pull off such a feat is insane. He's the Erwin Rommel of NW.
i always get an erection when i check my subscrptions and see that phresh cluelesswill vid
It won't be FSE developing it, so it will come out!
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Offline Cazasar

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 11:52:48 pm »
You should watch this :)

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Offline William

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 01:16:37 am »
After watching the video it more or less supports what my points are but I still think that a Germany with the soviet oil could have seriously crippled the Soviets.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:21:42 am by William »
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god damn, Anthony is smart, he was able to get the shit AEF to tie with the best reg in the game. The tactical geniusness needed to pull off such a feat is insane. He's the Erwin Rommel of NW.
i always get an erection when i check my subscrptions and see that phresh cluelesswill vid
It won't be FSE developing it, so it will come out!
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Offline Riddlez

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 08:27:06 am »
In the long run the Russians just had too many and the Germans too little too late. Russian tank production was faster than the Germans could destroy them, the Russians just had too many soldiers.

In the beginning of operation Barbarossa, Germany encircled and captured entire divisions, at points 80.000 and 128.000 troops at once. Sounds good? Yeah it SOUNDS good, but they weren't even strategic victories... those kind of numbers meant next to nothing to the Russians.

In 1941 the Germans had close to 4 million (3.767 million) people in the eastern theatre againstthe Russian army at its weakest point. The Russians had almost 3 million people then. For a viable attack - defender ration it is commonly spoken of a 3:1 ratio. The Germans didn't have close to that. (To compare, after day one during Operation Overlord, the allies had a 3:1 to 5:1 and later 10:1 superiority in Normandy). keep in mind that the Russians still had 14 million reservists at that point (former conscripts, so already had military training).

In 1943 the Germans were up to 3.9 million. The Russians by then had 6.7 million and some 10 milion more reserve. Was manpower any problem? Nah, it was more of a problem to equip all those men. Germany never stood a chance. Not with the depth of the Russian country.
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Offline Blaze

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 03:40:36 pm »
If Hitler had never declared war on Russia (or actually prepared for the winters) he would've been able to hold Europe, however, he thought that by invading in Summer of 1941 he could take Moscow by October that same year yes he may have come extremely close, (pounding Moscow with shells) however, if he had kept eyes on Russia but not invaded then D-Day would've been a different story.
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Offline Cazasar

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 03:45:35 pm »
You didnt read the Thread hm?
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Offline Riddlez

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 05:23:45 pm »
he may have come extremely close, (pounding Moscow with shells)

By your logic England was close to falling because Germany bombed London
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Offline Blaze

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 10:04:26 pm »
he may have come extremely close, (pounding Moscow with shells)

By your logic England was close to falling because Germany bombed London

As the German armies swept further into the Russian heartland, one million Soviet troops were drafted to protect Kiev. But despite Stalin's ruthless order forbidding any city to surrender, Kiev fell and 600,000 Soviet soldiers were captured. By October 1941, three million Soviet soldiers were prisoners of war. New testimony and documentary evidence can now reveal that Stalin was seriously considering suing for peace and had even organised a 'getaway' train to take him to safety as German guns started pounding Moscow. His decision to stay and fight was a crucial turning point in the war.

The difference between UK and Russia, is Russia didn't expect it and where getting legit "bumed"
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Offline William

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 10:13:37 pm »
I'm with Blaze on this. Stalin ruled Russia through fear so if he is killed or captured I think it might have a drastic impact on the war effort for the Soviets and lead to mass desertion or at the very least a power struggle among the leadership which could cripple the war effort for them. I feel it's possible you get warlord circumstances in that scenario.
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god damn, Anthony is smart, he was able to get the shit AEF to tie with the best reg in the game. The tactical geniusness needed to pull off such a feat is insane. He's the Erwin Rommel of NW.
i always get an erection when i check my subscrptions and see that phresh cluelesswill vid
It won't be FSE developing it, so it will come out!
[close]

Offline Kore

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 11:52:04 pm »
Capturing Moscow would not mean an immediate defeat for the Russians, sure, it would hurt the regime, as well as capturing Stalingrad, but Russia would not capitulate with its comeback potential (numbers, Ural)
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Offline Lightning.

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Re: Could Germany have won on the eastern front?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2018, 12:09:41 am »
No. The entire Eastern Campaign was the idea of a lunatic and completely doomed from the get go.

True