Author Topic: A wee rant to NA event hosters  (Read 3271 times)

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Offline Jorvasker

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A wee rant to NA event hosters
« on: March 12, 2022, 06:55:03 pm »
Before you all start squealing and stomping on your keyboards in the comments, yes, I know the game is new and an abundance of time will be required to work these things out in the long run. However, I feel there are serious issues with the way NA events are being administered at the moment. The primary issue here is map choice. Every event I have been to, no matter how big or small, always selects the largest maps available.

These maps were made with 500+ players in mind, not 300 or less. The linebattles, as they currently stand, thus end up being camping affairs where neither team actively seeks out combat, rather they choose to camp their side of the map and try to get 150+ metre pot shots. Not only is this boring and negative gameplay, this kind of "action" lasts for the better part of 10-15 minutes before an all charge is even given. By that point, in a lot of cases, there are still northwards of 50-60+ people alive on either team. This type of gameplay isn't enjoyable for anyone. Unless you're in a unit that seeks to achieve historical accuracy, your everyday player is not going to find enjoyment with running around and shooting at targets they can barely see for half the event. Such long rounds with minimal action also is not going to encourage new players to continue attending events, especially if you're killed at the beginning of the round and have to wait 20 minutes until you can play again.

This type of gameplay was widely accepted back in the 2012-2014 era of NW, but that time is long past. For years now, players have been accustomed to short, concise battle rounds to keep linebattles swift and action-packed. There is definitely a time and place for the old style of linebattle, but not the everyday event. I have noticed that the EU community has answered many of these problems, and I would love to see some of these elements incorporated into our own events. Firstly, smaller maps sizes. As in, smaller than you think is actually fitting for the number of players. This forces units to engage and does not give them the option to camp their spawn for 20 minutes. It also encourages melee charges, reducing the need for an all charge to begin with. Another thing I have noticed is the experimentation with multiple game modes within a single event. Especially those that allow for respawning. There are many NA events that claim to be "half siege/half linebattle," but in actuality is more like 3/4 siege and 1/4 linebattle. Plus, 3 different siege events in a week is not necessary and gets repetitive. Many people do not like siege as it's very disorganised and laggy. Most siege events I've personally attended were no different from the public siege server. No lines, no order, just chaos. I think an event that has, for example, a round of conquest, a linebattle round or two, maybe a historical-based round, etc. is something that would work well in this game. With the accuracy of the rifles, it will be difficult to 100% copy NW-style linebattles.

The point of this rant isn't to call people out and to cause drama, it's merely to offer feedback. The way we conduct our events now will inevitably influence the success of this game. If we fuck up now, there won't be a BCoF in a year's time and none of us want that. I just know from personal experience, no one in my regiment has been satisfied by the NA events so far and I've talked to a lot of other people and they agree as well. I have found myself enjoying EU events far more than NA, and I think we could learn a thing or two so that we can keep this game alive and not have to run back to the 10 year old decaying carcass of NW with our tails between our legs.

Edit: Added some breaks in there for the special snowflakes out there that have the attention span of the common gamer.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 01:22:55 am by Jorvasker »

Regiment History:
Filthy Casual Publorde from May 2011 - Mid July 2012 / Early Services from July - November 2012, including 33rd, 63e, 1stCI / 1stFKI - November 2012 - April 2013 / Break from April 2013 - July 2013, with a short return to 63e from June until July / 1stEPI - July 2013 - January 2016 (Retired from game)

Offline AlJThire

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2022, 09:56:47 pm »
cool story, but who asked?

Offline Jorvasker

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2022, 09:58:09 pm »
cool story, but who asked?
Gotta love the unwarranted FSE forum toxicity.

Regiment History:
Filthy Casual Publorde from May 2011 - Mid July 2012 / Early Services from July - November 2012, including 33rd, 63e, 1stCI / 1stFKI - November 2012 - April 2013 / Break from April 2013 - July 2013, with a short return to 63e from June until July / 1stEPI - July 2013 - January 2016 (Retired from game)

Offline Saris

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2022, 10:01:17 pm »
I agree with most parts, the biggest complaint I have is the half line/half siege events, my group would rather attend either a full siege or full line battle, not half. I also dont mind the bigger maps, it allows groups to maneuver a lot more instead of straight up fighting right out of the gate especially with how accurate the guns and cannons are.

Offline Jorvasker

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2022, 10:04:28 pm »
I agree with most parts, the biggest complaint I have is the half line/half siege events, my group would rather attend either a full siege or full line battle, not half. I also dont mind the bigger maps, it allows groups to maneuver a lot more instead of straight up fighting right out of the gate especially with how accurate the guns and cannons are.
I would say in theory bigger maps would be the way to go with the accuracy in this game. But, seeing how they have played out so far, regiments tend to just camp and make the round drag out way longer than it has to and make it incredibly boring. If everyone would agree to just fight, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2022, 10:06:06 pm by Jorvasker »

Regiment History:
Filthy Casual Publorde from May 2011 - Mid July 2012 / Early Services from July - November 2012, including 33rd, 63e, 1stCI / 1stFKI - November 2012 - April 2013 / Break from April 2013 - July 2013, with a short return to 63e from June until July / 1stEPI - July 2013 - January 2016 (Retired from game)

Offline Big_Rubber_Duck

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2022, 10:07:01 pm »
What I noticed in a smaller event my reg held the other day was that we were doing only linebattles, and due to using somewhat smaller maps the rounds went by a lot quicker, and we were able to pack in a lot more rounds of Battle in an hour than any events we had held before in other games. I agree that map choice is important for the size of event you have going on. That being said, some of the fun I'm finding in this game is being able to attempt and succeed at making those 100m+ shots. I think that a good balance to this is going to be map choice in events going forward. Maps with little cover or elevation change will tend to have regiments holding back and taking potshots, while maps with a lot of cover/buildings/trees will force lines to have to move forward and close distance since there would be little opportunity for those extended shots.

Offline Sup

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2022, 10:09:50 pm »
I agree with most parts, the biggest complaint I have is the half line/half siege events, my group would rather attend either a full siege or full line battle, not half. I also dont mind the bigger maps, it allows groups to maneuver a lot more instead of straight up fighting right out of the gate especially with how accurate the guns and cannons are.
Personally, Sieges are pretty ass atm, solely because game optimization isn't too hot rn. Linebattles are much easier for my boys to run, and quite honestly are more fun in their entirety.

Offline Jorvasker

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2022, 10:11:06 pm »
What I noticed in a smaller event my reg held the other day was that we were doing only linebattles, and due to using somewhat smaller maps the rounds went by a lot quicker, and we were able to pack in a lot more rounds of Battle in an hour than any events we had held before in other games. I agree that map choice is important for the size of event you have going on. That being said, some of the fun I'm finding in this game is being able to attempt and succeed at making those 100m+ shots. I think that a good balance to this is going to be map choice in events going forward. Maps with little cover or elevation change will tend to have regiments holding back and taking potshots, while maps with a lot of cover/buildings/trees will force lines to have to move forward and close distance since there would be little opportunity for those extended shots.
I agree with a lot of that as well, but to also play the devil's advocate. If you do have a map with a lot of garrisonable buildings (granted the event allows garrisoning), trees, etc. It allows the groups that get there first to just camp and wait for people to come to them, which, again, the other side isn't going to be keen on doing due to the accuracy, so they're more apt to shoot at nothing and wait 10-15 minutes for the all charge. That scenario happened at the event I went to last night. It just depends on the regiments participating at that point.

Regiment History:
Filthy Casual Publorde from May 2011 - Mid July 2012 / Early Services from July - November 2012, including 33rd, 63e, 1stCI / 1stFKI - November 2012 - April 2013 / Break from April 2013 - July 2013, with a short return to 63e from June until July / 1stEPI - July 2013 - January 2016 (Retired from game)

Offline Big_Rubber_Duck

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2022, 10:16:07 pm »
I agree with a lot of that as well, but to also play the devil's advocate. If you do have a map with a lot of garrisonable buildings (granted the event allows garrisoning), trees, etc. It allows the groups that get there first to just camp and wait for people to come to them, which, again, the other side isn't going to be keen on doing due to the accuracy, so they're more apt to shoot at nothing and wait 10-15 minutes for the all charge. That scenario happened at the event I went to last night. It just depends on the regiments participating at that point.
Hm perhaps not buildings is what i was thinking, but mainly objects that break line of sight. I like trees because they aren't quite wide enough to fully cover someone's body, but with enough of them you can't take 100m shots. I also really like seeing large fields of crops or wheat, those conceal people really well and can make it a little harder to see someone from afar if the crops are high enough.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2022, 10:21:59 pm by Big_Rubber_Duck »

Offline [Stryker]

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2022, 10:26:54 pm »
Custom map makers gotta quit making big open maps with so much space that it inspires camping and long range combat. There needs to be enough natural cover to break line of sight till within 100m imo

Offline Requiem

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2022, 10:35:25 pm »
I will not take sides anywhere but I just want to say this:

Before we go back to talk about accuracy nerf and yadayadayada, actually, following a volley how many shots find their targets?
Beyond 90-100 meters it is unlikely that the whole line will die or even more than 3-4 people (in a line of 10 or more people when you are lucky) hit the target. (and sometimes it is just a hit, not a kill)

So yes, I understand what you are saying and I partly agree with it but it is not that tragic.
It is true that people try to hit enemies 150+ meters away but they don't catch them most of the times... that's why people camp and wait: the first one who approaches under X meters have more chance to die.
I mean, it is totally normal and the fault, in this case, is that the maps often favour very open battles so when you capture a hill basically you can see everything due to the tactical advantage.
I am talking for my experience and for what i've seen so i could be wrong tho.

Personally the linebattles like this do not bothers me because i am used to them but I can understand your point of view.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2022, 10:39:56 pm by Requiem »

Offline Moraine

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2022, 11:15:31 pm »
Interesting concerns they have points.



Offline Hess

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2022, 12:28:15 am »
If you want to make events more enjoyable, people gotta stop doing the half siege/half LB. No one in my regiment really enjoys siege as it's laggy and boring. I believe I can speak for a lot of the BCOF community, not all, but a good chunk.

Line battles, if you want to make them fun, stop making the maps filled with hills and cover. Hills aren't bad if you don't make them the size of mount Everest. Remove specs or limit them. In NW there was a huge problem with specs balancing, in BCOF it could be argued that it's almost as bad. Artillery is pretty powerful so people already play way more passively before forming up to volley. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say specs are not as OP as they were in NW simply because more than 200 people are playing and it somewhat balances out so long as you aren't bringing like 4 cannons and 30 sharps.

Game balance, for all your historically accurate fanatics out there, I get your pain, but where is the divide between historical accuracy and game balance? The maps, regiment sizes, are nowhere near the historically accurate size. Regiments are bringing 10-30 people a night, not 300. No one wants to lose their entire line in 1 volley from 200m away even if it's historically accurate. It's just dumb and isn't fun.

In my opinion, if events want to stay fresh, start hosting stuff like line only or flintlocks only or something. Believe it or not, the flintlock rounds that were occasionally hosted as a fun round were actually more fun than the event itself. Do something that isn't the normal siege, LB, or conquest. My biggest concern with BCOF is the lack of variety that NW had. In BCOF, you only have 2 factions to play where most of the uniforms look similar aside from a few details. In NW, you had like 5 or 6 factions with all kinds of uniforms that probably cover every range on RGB. Personally, to keep BCOF alive, you need more variety in uniforms/event styles.

Offline LEVIS

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2022, 12:39:17 am »
God i missed some good old pub LB drama ;D love to see actual discussion

Offline Marceaux

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Re: A wee rant to NA event hosters
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2022, 12:59:21 am »
Before you all start squealing and stomping on your keyboards in the comments, yes, I know the game is new and an abundance of time will be required to work these things out in the long run. However, I feel there are serious issues with the way NA events are being administered at the moment. The primary issue here is map choice. Every event I have been to, no matter how big or small, always selects the largest maps available. These maps were made with 500+ players in mind, not 300 or less. The linebattles, as they currently stand, thus end up being camping affairs where neither team actively seeks out combat, rather they choose to camp their side of the map and try to get 150+ metre pot shots. Not only is this boring and negative gameplay, this kind of "action" lasts for the better part of 10-15 minutes before an all charge is even given. By that point, in a lot of cases, there are still northwards of 50-60+ people alive on either team. This type of gameplay isn't enjoyable for anyone. Unless you're in a unit that seeks to achieve historical accuracy, your everyday player is not going to find enjoyment with running around and shooting at targets they can barely see for half the event. Such long rounds with minimal action also is not going to encourage new players to continue attending events, especially if you're killed at the beginning of the round and have to wait 20 minutes until you can play again. This type of gameplay was widely accepted back in the 2012-2014 era of NW, but that time is long past. For years now, players have been accustomed to short, concise battle rounds to keep linebattles swift and action-packed. There is definitely a time and place for the old style of linebattle, but not the everyday event. I have noticed that the EU community has answered many of these problems, and I would love to see some of these elements incorporated into our own events. Firstly, smaller maps sizes. As in, smaller than you think is actually fitting for the number of players. This forces units to engage and does not give them the option to camp their spawn for 20 minutes. It also encourages melee charges, reducing the need for an all charge to begin with. Another thing I have noticed is the experimentation with multiple game modes within a single event. Especially those that allow for respawning. There are many NA events that claim to be "half siege/half linebattle," but in actuality is more like 3/4 siege and 1/4 linebattle. Plus, 3 different siege events in a week is not necessary and gets repetitive. Many people do not like siege as it's very disorganised and laggy. Most siege events I've personally attended were no different from the public siege server. No lines, no order, just chaos. I think an event that has, for example, a round of conquest, a linebattle round or two, maybe a historical-based round, etc. is something that would work well in this game. With the accuracy of the rifles, it will be difficult to 100% copy NW-style linebattles. The point of this rant isn't to call people out and to cause drama, it's merely to offer feedback. The way we conduct our events now will inevitably influence the success of this game. If we fuck up now, there won't be a BCoF in a year's time and none of us want that. I just know from personal experience, no one in my regiment has been satisfied by the NA events so far and I've talked to a lot of other people and they agree as well. I have found myself enjoying EU events far more than NA, and I think we could learn a thing or two so that we can keep this game alive and not have to run back to the 10 year old decaying carcass of NW with our tails between our legs.

I agree with the part about maps being 2 large, but I couldn't bare to read any further. Please use the enter key in the future to break up the paragraphs some. Spare my eyes the text wall pl0x.