Ukraine

[Suede]

If cease-fire fails martial law will be declared:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/poroshenko-will-impose-martial-law-if-cease-fire-fails-380663.html

It isn't even started and already failed but PoP will not declared martial law anyway

[Rejenorst]

The cease-fire is being observed for the most part but mortar fire is still happening in some parts.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/15/ukraine-ceasefire-fighting-kiev-luhansk-debaltseve

[Augy]

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/02/11/nyt-whites-out-ukraines-brown-shirts/

[Duuring]

That article acts as if Azov contributes 40% of the forces, instead of the 1% they actually do.

Maybe they should give some attention to the dozens of Antifa-dudes from Spain and France fighting for the Ruskis.

[Augy]

It doesnt matter if they are just 1% or 99% for that matter, they get all the important tasks because they are fanatics compared to your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.

They should give attention to everything, even the weird apologist leftists that venerate Putin just because he opposes the West.

Both the wests "PUTIN DID IT" meme and Russia's constant focus on the neo-nazis (which has some merit).

I can also understand the Eastern Ukrainians who don't want to be part of a Ukraine that was hijacked by National Endowment for Democracy. Where the interim president was from a party that has a think tank by the name "Joseph Goebbles Institute" and the new oligarch president has been described by US officials through wikileaks as their man in Ukraine.

However to me it looks like Russia are the defensive ones here. I imagine if a Russian alliance did something similar in say, Mexico, to what NATO/EU/US has done in Ukraine we would have WW3 long ago.

Note that I am not on the Putin bandwagon btw.

[Riddlez]

your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.

I think it is quite safe to say most soldiers are not in the military for 'just making a living.'

[Augy]

Very few have romantic notions about homeland and shit... anyone who knows soldiers can tell you that. The pay is quite good and attracts uneducated, disenfranchised young men with no goals in life and an adventurous outlook. All your needs are taken care off. Pretty tempting arrangement to people.

Opportunity is limited in other pursuits. Things that should be provided like healthcare, higher education, and a living wage have a string attached to them. That's the military's best recruiting tool: desperate people.

[Rejenorst]

It doesnt matter if they are just 1% or 99% for that matter, they get all the important tasks because they are fanatics compared to your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.

They should give attention to everything, even the weird apologist leftists that venerate Putin just because he opposes the West.

Both the wests "PUTIN DID IT" meme and Russia's constant focus on the neo-nazis (which has some merit).

I can also understand the Eastern Ukrainians who don't want to be part of a Ukraine that was hijacked by National Endowment for Democracy. Where the interim president was from a party that has a think tank by the name "Joseph Goebbles Institute" and the new oligarch president has been described by US officials through wikileaks as their man in Ukraine.

However to me it looks like Russia are the defensive ones here. I imagine if a Russian alliance did something similar in say, Mexico, to what NATO/EU/US has done in Ukraine we would have WW3 long ago.

Note that I am not on the Putin bandwagon btw.

+1

Augy gets medal of balance.

[Duuring]

All the important tasks? What important tasks? Guarding a town along with several other units? Ukrainian army wages are below average income, plus, volunteer battalions don't get any.

Russia is on the defensive by bringing war and destruction to its beloved ethic Russians. GG NO RE.

[Rejenorst]

He was referring specifically to the Ukrainian army and not the volunteer units who fight on zeal. The Ukrainian army salary has been increased a number of times with various incentive pays etc. Its not a great salary or anything but if it can reach up to 7000 then its above the 4000 average. Additionally the volunteer units have usually been in the thick of things.

http://ukraine.setimes.com/en_GB/articles/uwi/features/2015/02/13/feature-01
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/poroshenko-promises-to-raise-ukrainian-army-pay-to-83-a-day-349713.html

Spoiler

Members of the military can now receive up to 7,000 hryvnia per month, which Serhiy said is an acceptable salary. When he was mobilised last spring, "nobody even could think of bonuses and additional payments," Serhiy said.

"I would say that during the very first mobilisation wave it was more patriotic, people came because of the belief that the country must be protected and then the financial component was not the first thought," Serhiy said. "Now I'm training those who recently came to serve in the fourth wave of mobilisation and most of them said that they consider military service as an opportunity to make some money. So, it is right that the government has decided to award the military. It is also done in order to complete a mobilisation plan, because recently Russian propaganda has intensified attempts to disrupt mobilisation."

[close]

[Duuring]

Has it actually improved? Or were only promises made? Because that Poroshenko-article is from May 2014.

[Rejenorst]

Yes it has improved I have pasted the relevant info into a spoiler.

[Archduke Sven]

It doesnt matter if they are just 1% or 99% for that matter, they get all the important tasks because they are fanatics compared to your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.

1% of the world is richer than the other 99%, does that mean the 99% are defined by the 1% of humans who have all the wealth? No it doesn't m8.

Really poor generalization. Then again, wouldn't expect more from you.

plus, how do you put together that the Azov btn gets more important tasks when they are a solitary btn of a couple hundred men who can hardly cover a 2 km of the front when the Ukrainian army in the region is made of tens of thousands accompanied by volunteer battalions are doing the brunt of the fighting and work?

its like putting 9+10 together and gettin 21.

[Nipplestockings]

I think he's referring to all the volunteer battalions in general, who make up a slightly larger portion of Ukraine's forces. In that respect, I'd say they do get different tasks than the Ukrainian military because they're less burdened by shitty bureaucracy and corruption and they can move and reposition themselves quickly and efficiently.

The Azov battalion is just an example of one of these more fanatic volunteer groups, but they're far from the only ones.

[Riddlez]

Are the volunteers even unpaid?