Poll

Are the "Oldest Pyramids of the world" that were found in Crimea, the real reason for the War?

Yes! Putin only took Crimea because of the alien pyramids.
13 (61.9%)
Yes! I don't believe that the pyramids were made by aliens, but I do believe that Russia took Crimea because of the incredible cultural treasures hidden inside them.
8 (38.1%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 367885 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Akko

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3510 on: January 22, 2015, 03:23:53 am »



Spoiler
[close]

And this is why no one can have a serious argument with you!   ;D

I'm hooked on a feeling
I'm high on believing
That you're in love with me!

luv u 2  :-*

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3511 on: January 24, 2015, 04:13:55 pm »
Separatists have declared they are going on the offensive. They're bombarding Mariupol, and have already killed 27 people and wounded nearly 100. Such nice people.

Offline MaxLam

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 1343
  • Founder of Minisiege, EU_Commander & Mininaval
    • View Profile
    • Napoleonic Wars Public
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3512 on: January 24, 2015, 06:38:05 pm »
They also took control of the airport.

Offline MarshalKim

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2213
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3513 on: January 24, 2015, 07:19:53 pm »
Fuck yeah, the Duurings of this world are going to lose this shit.
Massive job loss will take place, but if left allowed to, the market will adapt. I just don't want my job to be taken away from me, tbh.

Offline Turin Turambar

  • Major General
  • **
  • Posts: 3738
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3514 on: January 24, 2015, 07:31:06 pm »
Haha, when Kiev launched an offensive, nothing happened. Now the rebels are doing the same and NATO cries for "peace".

And Poroshenko is still talking about the gazillions of Russian soldiers attacking Ukraine with at least 10.000 death stars.
des is apsichtdliche Browokazion etzala ferstest du

Offline Desert Thunda

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 5351
  • u wish u knew
    • View Profile
  • Nick: K-KA_Commissar_DesertThunda
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3515 on: January 24, 2015, 07:38:53 pm »
The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3516 on: January 24, 2015, 07:50:28 pm »
Fuck yeah, the Duurings of this world are going to lose this shit.

That happened a few days ago. Get to my level scrub.

The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?

The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government. It means they have the right to use violence. My point is, however, that this blows away (pun intended) the myth of some sort of good/bad-story. The separatists are not just using force against civilians, they're also doing so using nondiscriminatory weapons like the Grad and while not being the legal force in the area. I'm sure Mariupol can't wait to be 'liberated'.

I'm not saying the separatists are considerably 'worse' or 'more evil' then the Ukrainians. My point is that they do the exact same things as Ukraine.

Offline MarshalKim

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2213
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3517 on: January 24, 2015, 08:16:34 pm »
Even the duurings accept their fate and the ill-fated destiny that accompanies opposing true politicians like Putin. Something the Duurings will never be as good at.
Massive job loss will take place, but if left allowed to, the market will adapt. I just don't want my job to be taken away from me, tbh.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3518 on: January 24, 2015, 08:41:19 pm »
Did I became a noun? I'm flattered.

Offline MaxLam

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 1343
  • Founder of Minisiege, EU_Commander & Mininaval
    • View Profile
    • Napoleonic Wars Public
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3519 on: January 24, 2015, 09:41:34 pm »

Quote from: Duuring
The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government.
But the government is not legal nor legitimate. Not anymore than Separatist leaders.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3520 on: January 24, 2015, 09:57:23 pm »
The current government that was voted into power in a general election a few months ago, that was recognized as free, is considered the legal and legitimate power of the Ukrainian state by every nation in the world. Including Russia. The government was voted in trough legal terms (elections), so it's legal. In fact, they even left open the constituency seats of the occupied districts. That's how good they're following the rules.

Every nation in the world excluding Russia and its vassal states (and Afghanistan) also recognize Ukraine's sovereignty over the Crimea, and every nation in the world, including Russia but excluding South Ossetia and Abkhazia, recognizes Ukraine's ultimate sovereignty over the Luhansk and Donetsk oblast. It may have escaped your notice, but the official Russian point of view is still that there should be a ceasefire and preferably some sort of decentralization within Ukraine.

So it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region. Legitimacy comes from how many other people say it is, and thus how many people treat you as the sovereign of the state, so the government is also legitimate.

So your statement 'But the government is not legal nor legitimate' really has no valid ground. At all.

Offline Augy

  • Major General
  • **
  • Posts: 2970
  • Anarchist. Absurdist. Existentialist. Man. Human.
    • View Profile
    • The Royal Recruits
  • Nick: -[TRR]- Cpt. Augy
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3521 on: January 24, 2015, 10:46:47 pm »
They are coming for you, Ukraine.

“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.” -Terence McKenna

Offline Akko

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3522 on: January 24, 2015, 11:10:46 pm »
They are coming for you, Ukraine.



Well that was interesting

Offline MaxLam

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 1343
  • Founder of Minisiege, EU_Commander & Mininaval
    • View Profile
    • Napoleonic Wars Public
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3523 on: January 24, 2015, 11:12:39 pm »
Quote from: duuring
So it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region.
Why should I care? How does that make them right? They can't decide what's legal or legitimate, because this isn't their business. Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.

On the contrary, there was a lot of reasons to doubt that the majority of the Ukrainian population supported Maidan. Moreover, the overthrow of the Ukrainian president was illegal. Those are facts, no country can dispute that.

Offline Nipplestockings

  • Lieutenant General
  • ***
  • Posts: 8609
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3524 on: January 24, 2015, 11:14:19 pm »
It was a revolution. Do you believe are revolutions are illegitimate?