Uniform Reference?

[Nuchiha]

I know it's an odd thread, and it's more of a question really. But what do you use for uniform reference, what is it backed by? I ask this because I am looking for some sources, I was enough of an idiot to not save a bookmarked URL when all of the bookmarks were deleted.

As for myself, I use this; http://centjours.mont-saint-jean.com/

I can't really say what it's backed by, seeing as I can't read French enough to make out any significant bit of it.

[Audiate]

 I have my own source that I'm awaiting to release when both L'Aigle and Iron Europe are out. This is something I've made with it:


 Don't ask me for what that image serves. I'd like to keep it a mystery; just like the mystery of why both the assigned uniform and winter uniform are there.

[Ililsa]

http://centjours.mont-saint-jean.com/ is something I tend to look at when I have too much time on my hands. Generally I'm looking at British uniforms so I tend to look in C.E. Franklin's book British Napoleonic Uniforms: The First Complete Illustrated Guide to Uniforms, Facings and Lace or Osprey books on occasion.

I tend to try and collect contemporary and modern images of a regiment if I'm very interested in it, generally to satisfy my photoshop fetish, but it's also the best way to actually see what was being worn at a certain time, or what people were dressing up in for artists.

[Docm30]

Bear in mind that that Cent Jours website is rife with inaccuracies.

[Duuring]

It shows the Dutch in their regulationuniforms...the ones most of them didn't wore in the campaign. 

[Archduke Sven]

It shows the Dutch in their regulationuniforms...the ones most of them didn't wore in the campaign. 

Well duh, if he made several uniforms that soldiers might have worn, but were not regulation people would give him shit for representing uniforms that weren't regulation, he is showing what they were supposed to wear and what many did wear. Also consider that he shows the uniforms on a limited space, so if he would represent the endless different uniforms the soldiers had against regulation the picture would be endless, and then the website wouldn't be as useful. I think he did great, showed his interpretation, showed different variants of uniforms and made a useful website for people who are curious about waterloo era uniforms.

I know it's an odd thread, and it's more of a question really. But what do you use for uniform reference, what is it backed by? I ask this because I am looking for some sources, I was enough of an idiot to not save a bookmarked URL when all of the bookmarks were deleted.

As for myself, I use this; http://centjours.mont-saint-jean.com/

I can't really say what it's backed by, seeing as I can't read French enough to make out any significant bit of it.

Well, here are some nice websites you can use, but i think if you are really interested you should probably buy some recommended books.

http://www.darnault-militaires.info/Galerie/N1_Emp_1/N1_Emp_1.html -  Closest to a book you can get on the internet.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?384319-Useful-websites-covering-Uniforms-Flags-Naval-Maps-Downloadable-books-Orders-of-battle-Paintings-etc -  A ton of useful websites for everything NW era, made by Prince of Essling.

[Friedrich]

It shows the Dutch in their regulationuniforms...the ones most of them didn't wore in the campaign. 

Well duh, if he made several uniforms that soldiers might have worn, but were not regulation people would give him shit for representing uniforms that weren't regulation, he is showing what they were supposed to wear and what many did wear. Also consider that he shows the uniforms on a limited space, so if he would represent the endless different uniforms the soldiers had against regulation the picture would be endless, and then the website wouldn't be as useful. I think he did great, showed his interpretation, showed different variants of uniforms and made a useful website for people who are curious about waterloo era uniforms.

This

[Duuring]

The uniforms of the Dutch troops were regulations, but for 1814. The 1815 uniforms, which he shows, were only worn by officers and some Belgian units.

I agree it's a great site and especially the organisation table is really helpful, but it doesn't take away the fact it shows the wrong uniforms and gives people the wrong idea.

[Friedrich]

A uniform regulation doesn't mean, that all units suddenly change their uniforms. This is only a business game contained in books, but never happens in military practise. That's a process that needs time, just until today. Just another example: in the french reglement most units had blue uniform, but in fact many french units needed to wear white ones, because through the british blockade the french ran out of indigo (blue colour) so they couldn't force the reglement.
So there must have been definitly units that wore uniforms of the old regulation and some that wore the "new" ones.

[Duuring]

That's exactly my point.

The Dutch units at Waterloo wore the Model 1814 uniform, which they got in 1814.
In january 1815 new regulations were issued, hence 'Model 1815'. Only the Belgians, jagers excepted, got the model 1815 because they had never received the model 1814.

The cent jour site gives them all Model 1815, and that's simply not what the men wore.

Then there's also the business of the Belgian shakos which were not worn by the Jagers, but you get my point.

[Friedrich]

But then you cant point on the side beeing "historical" wrong. Because noone can say what regiments/battalions wore in the campaign, because we have a) no photography b) no one of today living persons was there. So we have only some lores from participants written down mostly after the battle (of course) and then only for some battalions, not for all.
So every serious historian can only approve what was reglement, not what was fact.

[Ililsa]

Since armies tend to be full of bureaucracy and paperwork, it would make sense that we know what a certain regiment was wearing at a certain time because someone will have documented when they were issued a certain set of equipment. I rather doubt that there were a bunch of Dutch army clerks going "Lets piss off everyone in the future by just writing anything we like here."

[Friedrich]

A simple explanation: Propaganda

[Duuring]

But then you cant point on the side beeing "historical" wrong. Because noone can say what regiments/battalions wore in the campaign, because we have a) no photography b) no one of today living persons was there. So we have only some lores from participants written down mostly after the battle (of course) and then only for some battalions, not for all.
So every serious historian can only approve what was reglement, not what was fact.

It's precisely documentated what the men were issued. Army orders as well as eyewitness accounts. We even know the 2e ligne rightflank company had grenade patches on their turnbacks., which was strictly against regulations. I can give other examples too, if you want.

By your logic the French old Guars could have marched to Waterloo in pink tutus. I mean, maybe everybody lied about their blue coats.

It's also backed up by official papers that 98% of the French Voltiguers did not have yellow stripes on their shakos, while the cent jour shows the companies with them.

And please, enlighten me why propaganda has anything to do with it.

[Ililsa]

I too am a little unsure about how the Imperious Dutch War Machine would benefit from fabricating when a regiment was issued certain clothing.