Author Topic: North American Community List-NaCl Reborn [Update 2.0: The NaCl Floweth]  (Read 144413 times)

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Offline Wastee

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I have had this idea since 2015 and talked about it in the past with people, thought I finally throw it out here.

Would people be interested in a NW tournament with a native style? Officers, infantry, cavalry and shooting allowed? A 7v7, 6v6, 5v5 maybe? There are some maps that are already made from FSE that could be used probably.
Did one in EU NW. Concept doesn't work that well unless there's an objective, otherwise teams can just camp

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Offline Yvrul

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I have had this idea since 2015 and talked about it in the past with people, thought I finally throw it out here.

Would people be interested in a NW tournament with a native style? Officers, infantry, cavalry and shooting allowed? A 7v7, 6v6, 5v5 maybe? There are some maps that are already made from FSE that could be used probably.
Did one in EU NW. Concept doesn't work that well unless there's an objective, otherwise teams can just camp

Yeah. The only game mode would be Battle I guess? I still think it could work with the right rules. Plus it be another easy win for the LG.

Offline maccle

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Just wanna say my boy maccle deserves the number one spot.
what a smart man
huh

Offline DrunkenSpartan

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I have had this idea since 2015 and talked about it in the past with people, thought I finally throw it out here.

Would people be interested in a NW tournament with a native style? Officers, infantry, cavalry and shooting allowed? A 7v7, 6v6, 5v5 maybe? There are some maps that are already made from FSE that could be used probably.
Did one in EU NW. Concept doesn't work that well unless there's an objective, otherwise teams can just camp

Yeah. The only game mode would be Battle I guess? I still think it could work with the right rules. Plus it be another easy win for the LG.


RoR did a variation of this in Native for trainings. Not sure how well it'll port to NW, though. Good luck to you!
It's the same old thing since 1916
In your head, in your head they're still fighting
With their tanks and their bombs
And air bombs and their guns
In your head, in your head they are dying...

Offline Hugonaut

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Offline AP0CALYPS3

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Consider me salty ;)

See you next year for your next post

Offline fireboy

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Spoiler
[close]

When you carry Apoc's reg and he still only has you as a 83 all time
[AEF/55th]Anthony 7:12 PM:
you have such a basic style/skillset
but you have the highest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GFing IQ i know

Offline Unitater

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Spoiler
[close]

When you carry Apoc's reg and he still only has you as a 83 all time

how am i carrying
Click Signature to Join the 41st NY Discord

Offline Kore

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@lurvy it'd die as soon as it started just as the EU event

unless NA s are actually DEDICATED players
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Offline Theodin

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Postscript: The Problem with Lists
Spoiler
Why lists are always going to be flawed: a breakdown
   
Another day, another list that people find flaws in. Perhaps the most consistent aspect of melee lists is the varied nature of rankings - and the disagreement that will always come with it. The most likely scenario, then is not that we merely need to find the right rankings, or assuming that there is a “right” rankings. Instead, it’s that melee lists will always be controversial and flawed for at least 5 reasons:

1. The impact of a frag
2. The intangibles - IQ, teamplay, communication
3. External stressors
4. Technical limitations
5. Lack of statistics beyond KD’s


   Frag impact: It is often, but not always the case, that first picks in groupfights are important and impactful frags. It is often the case, too, that getting two kills in a 1v5 but losing the clutch is not an example of useful or impactful frags. As well, fragging fluctuates based upon where you are in the groupfight, who you’re with, and the quality of the opposite team. Importantly, none of these are factored into groupfighting rankings! How much of anyone’s kills are impactful? If that question can’t be answered, then the only quantifiable variable that can be taken into account is itself not even as solid of a measure of rating as it often is taken as.

   How do you measure someone’s groupfighting IQ against another person? How do you rank teamplay between players? How important is the quality of communication impactful or measureable? None of these factors are (yet!) measurable, and yet supposedly are taken into account when discussing rating. One of groupfighting’s most important tenants, awareness, is not something that you can measure or statistically analyze in any meaningful way, so to assign a number to someone’s groupfighting skill without being able to assign a number to someone's groupfighting awareness is deeply problematic.

   Ever had cold fingers or stress affect gameplay? How about being yelled at by a family member? If the effect on performance in more commonplace activities can’t be accurately measured by scientists, how is it even remotely possible to have any sense on how external stressors affect NW gameplay? It seems like a significant variable to control for, but since it can’t even be calculated, it certainly can’t be controlled for.

   There has been many documented cases of increased fps or a better computer having a positive on gameplay, but there has also been cases of players overcoming technical limitation. So, how much does this variable factor into melee rankings? I certainly can’t tell you.

   Often people gripe about the possibility of assists being calculated in NW. That highlights an important problem - only two statistics are measured by the game: kills and deaths. Somehow list makers extrapolate many different statistics (usefulness, tactics, etc) from a game that only calculates kills and deaths. Perhaps a reason why lists vary between people is that they all use different criteria, and none of them have an agreed upon statistical footing. Until stats like KAST, RWS or something to that affect are able to calculated in NW, getting a picture of a players impact is going to be purely a personal opinion.

   In conclusion, lists are bunk, and we really should stop this charade that lists are realistic in any way.
[close]

https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=34981.new#new

1x NA Duel- Runner up |  3x 3v3- 3rd place (Seadderol Deflatriots) (Ez Money) (71st Guards + Russian) | 1x Duel League- 4th place | 1x Regimental Groupfighting- 1st place (71st)  l  1x 2v2- 3rd Place (Vortex/Theodin) | TNWL Season 2 - 1st Place l 1x 2v2- 1st Place (Theodin/Elite) l 2x NANWL-
 71st, Nr8(LG) l 1x 4v4- 1st Place (RussianFury, Waste, NickCole, Theodin) l 1x Cav Joust- 2nd Place l 1x 4v4-
 3rd Place (Theodin, AsianP, Sleek, Godfried, Lurvy) l 1x 5v5 - 1st Place (RussianFury, Yoshie, Krastinov, Jorge, Theodin - Thanos and his children)

Offline AP0CALYPS3

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Postscript: The Problem with Lists
Spoiler
Why lists are always going to be flawed: a breakdown
   
Another day, another list that people find flaws in. Perhaps the most consistent aspect of melee lists is the varied nature of rankings - and the disagreement that will always come with it. The most likely scenario, then is not that we merely need to find the right rankings, or assuming that there is a “right” rankings. Instead, it’s that melee lists will always be controversial and flawed for at least 5 reasons:

1. The impact of a frag
2. The intangibles - IQ, teamplay, communication
3. External stressors
4. Technical limitations
5. Lack of statistics beyond KD’s


   Frag impact: It is often, but not always the case, that first picks in groupfights are important and impactful frags. It is often the case, too, that getting two kills in a 1v5 but losing the clutch is not an example of useful or impactful frags. As well, fragging fluctuates based upon where you are in the groupfight, who you’re with, and the quality of the opposite team. Importantly, none of these are factored into groupfighting rankings! How much of anyone’s kills are impactful? If that question can’t be answered, then the only quantifiable variable that can be taken into account is itself not even as solid of a measure of rating as it often is taken as.

   How do you measure someone’s groupfighting IQ against another person? How do you rank teamplay between players? How important is the quality of communication impactful or measureable? None of these factors are (yet!) measurable, and yet supposedly are taken into account when discussing rating. One of groupfighting’s most important tenants, awareness, is not something that you can measure or statistically analyze in any meaningful way, so to assign a number to someone’s groupfighting skill without being able to assign a number to someone's groupfighting awareness is deeply problematic.

   Ever had cold fingers or stress affect gameplay? How about being yelled at by a family member? If the effect on performance in more commonplace activities can’t be accurately measured by scientists, how is it even remotely possible to have any sense on how external stressors affect NW gameplay? It seems like a significant variable to control for, but since it can’t even be calculated, it certainly can’t be controlled for.

   There has been many documented cases of increased fps or a better computer having a positive on gameplay, but there has also been cases of players overcoming technical limitation. So, how much does this variable factor into melee rankings? I certainly can’t tell you.

   Often people gripe about the possibility of assists being calculated in NW. That highlights an important problem - only two statistics are measured by the game: kills and deaths. Somehow list makers extrapolate many different statistics (usefulness, tactics, etc) from a game that only calculates kills and deaths. Perhaps a reason why lists vary between people is that they all use different criteria, and none of them have an agreed upon statistical footing. Until stats like KAST, RWS or something to that affect are able to calculated in NW, getting a picture of a players impact is going to be purely a personal opinion.

   In conclusion, lists are bunk, and we really should stop this charade that lists are realistic in any way.
[close]

https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=34981.new#new

Actually, there are way more precise ways to measure and rate melee.

Spoiler

[close]

Can't say I agree with your conclusion though. Lists are opinion-based. I dunno why you feel this is anything new, and I don't know why you feel like they should be disbanded because of it.

You don't get a prize for being on a list. They aren't tournaments. They aren't even really popularity contests. They are just opinion. That is their purpose.

The only mistake people are making is taking them too seriously.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 03:00:35 am by AP0CALYPS3 »

Offline Yvrul

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Everyone should just do their own top 10 whatever and post it in one mega thread.

Offline AP0CALYPS3

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Everyone should just do their own top 10 whatever and post it in one mega thread.

That would be hilarious.

Go make the thread.

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Offline antslimey

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Can I be 90 now XD