The General Political Thread

[Duuring]

They didn't say anything. They gave eachother compliments. Berckmoes talked only bout how it was the fault of the party that she didn't do anything as a MP and Lukassen... Lukassen really didn't talk about anything but broad, weird statements about the order of society today. There was nothing to disagree or agree with. 90% of the people in the room were actually from their, right-wing party, by the way, and they all agreed. It wasn't just a bad lecture, it was weird as fuck.

But hey, I'm sure you know more about these two people you never heard before until I mentioned them. Who am I to pretend I know more about them? Stupid ol' me.

[StevenChilton]

I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.

[Duuring]

That's what happens when people try to fit the real world to the ideology, rather then the ideology to the real world. This happens on both ends of the spectrum.

[Riddlez]

Isn't the point of an ideology that you shape the world conform the way you want it to be?

[Duuring]

Not really, no. Ideologies hail from (political) philosophy; they were written to explain why the world is as it is. Marx, as an example, didn't necessarily want a revolution and a socialist society, he thought it was absolutely sure to happen - eventually.

Ideologies however, never perfectly fit on the real world. Some fit better then others, but never perfect. So people who firmly believe their ideology is right, try to bring back society to what they think it's supposed to be. Because whatever they believe in, they all share the idea that the world is meant to be as their ideology prescribed. Any step away from that makes the world less perfect, because it's meddling with the natural order of things.

An easy (simplified) example of the above would be libertarians, who tend to believe that giving people 'free' money may seem to make them happy, but that they, and all of society, would actually be much happier and more succesful in a world reigned by the free market.

[Theodin]

I feel like you can be libertarian without being ideological - it’s all about the relationship between the world and your viewpoint, as you pointed out. Like, everyone has a political bias, but not everyone is ideological

[Duuring]

In my opinion, it's hard to justify libertarian policy if you don't believe it, eventually, benefits the entirety of society. It's not exactly a moderate point of view.

[Theodin]

In my opinion, it's hard to justify libertarian policy if you don't believe it, eventually, benefits the entirety of society. It's not exactly a moderate point of view.

But there are many types of libertarianism that are moderate - just like there are elements of the left that are extreme and elements that are merely liberal. It’s all about individual policy, not the whole name itself

[Duuring]

Fair point. Like I said, the example was simplified. Though in the Dutch context, liberatarianism itself is the extremist wing of the right-wing liberals, so I am yet to meet a non-ideological liberatarian. The North American context is different, of course.

[Theodin]

Fair point. Like I said, the example was simplified. Though in the Dutch context, liberatarianism itself is the extremist wing of the right-wing liberals, so I am yet to meet a non-ideological liberatarian. The North American context is different, of course.

Yes, indeed, geopolitics is often a factor underestimated

[Golden.]

I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.

These are the best, but they never seem to escalate outside of university.

[Edwin]

I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.

These are the best, but they never seem to escalate outside of university.

Tell that to Hamburg's police...

[StevenChilton]

EU shifts from being a scorned wife to a clingy ex and back again on a daily basis lol

[Duuring]

Only in your eyes does it do so.

[Theodin]

Only in your eyes does it do so.

And in your eyes it doesn’t, which, in case you were wondering, is what bias is