Author Topic: The General Political Thread  (Read 530993 times)

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Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1260 on: August 12, 2017, 01:34:09 pm »
And as I've already said, many women serve in the military exceptionally. I don't know how you can say that women don't deal with poor sleeping patterns well...many mothers do every day.

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1261 on: August 12, 2017, 02:27:49 pm »
And as I've already said, many women serve in the military exceptionally. I don't know how you can say that women don't deal with poor sleeping patterns well...many mothers do every day.

Best bring that up with the British Army then since they say differently.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389575/20141218_WGCC_Findings_Paper_Final.pdf

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1262 on: August 12, 2017, 02:49:38 pm »
Which point are you disputing? The fact that they perform well?

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1263 on: August 12, 2017, 03:24:46 pm »
They don't perform well in combat. Every Western military that has studied this has found the same thing.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/10/439190586/marine-corps-study-finds-all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1264 on: August 12, 2017, 03:46:11 pm »
So there has never been a woman who has performed better in combat?

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1265 on: August 12, 2017, 05:41:34 pm »
Yeah this person
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Offline Edwin

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1266 on: August 12, 2017, 10:35:00 pm »
Virginia is nice this time of year

Offline Riddlez

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1267 on: August 12, 2017, 10:41:09 pm »
The current youngest of the Dutch Cavalry Regiment Officers Corps (Boreel Hussars, recon scouts nowadays) is a woman. She passed the (considerably tough) course of 35 weeks of advanced officer training better than most men did. Should she be  alled unfit to serve because she is a woman?

Also dont give me the lower standards bullshit. This doesnt happen here.
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1268 on: August 12, 2017, 11:15:41 pm »
I was about to give some examples but riddlez has proved my point, Steven.

Offline Duuring

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1269 on: August 12, 2017, 11:31:33 pm »
Also dont give me the lower standards bullshit. This doesnt happen here.

Are you sure? This article in a regional Dutch newspaper suggest otherwise, and I've heard the same from a Dutch veteran.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Officer Training has different phyiscal standards, but some different standards seemed to be applied within the Dutch militairy.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 11:37:02 pm by Duuring »

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1270 on: August 12, 2017, 11:34:28 pm »
How about the famous night witches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1271 on: August 12, 2017, 11:38:23 pm »
Or one of the numerous female American admirals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Howard

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1272 on: August 12, 2017, 11:59:29 pm »
Assuming we're talking about the tiny minority of women currently serving in the military who meet the standards required for combat roles, there's still a lot to consider:
-Women are twice as likely to develop a musculoskeletal injury (and it goes up to seven times more likely for more specialist training regimes like commando or paratroop roles)
-Women currently serving are 15-20% more likely to suffer a Disease Non-Battle Injury (that will go up after they're allowed in combat)
-Women currently serving are twice as likely to develop mental health problems (15% vs 6.8% in men, and again will go up when they're allowed in combat)
-Women's bodies do not respond well to the nutritional, stress and sleeping stresses that combat causes (it's completely different to having a baby, that's a dumb comparison for obvious reasons)
-Women are quicker to fatigue than men and cannot be pushed to the kinds of limits that men can when the situation warrants it

I'm not going to talk about unit cohesion, killer instinct and all the rest of it but those are also important things to consider. The only Western military that has allowed women in combat roles for some time is the IDF (probably because Israel is outnumbered 25:1 and is desperate for manpower). They strictly segregate into all-female combat units only, which are only used for light duties and won't face the enemy unless the situation is truly desperate.

Integrate women into combat units and the unit won't be as effective, end of. That's what all the studies have concluded. I reckon what will happen is women will be allowed to serve, will end up on average getting killed more often than men, and there will be a feminist backlash in 20 years time seeking to make a grievance out of it.

Offline Toffee

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1273 on: August 13, 2017, 12:13:05 am »
Or maybe you just need to get rid of this anti-female soldier sentiment you've got going on ::)
Many women do very well in combat. Fact. End of. You think all women are going to get serious injuries? I doubt it so it doesn't really matter does it. Sure, some may be more injury prone but that doesn't mean they don't skilfully contribute and carry out their jobs which outweighs the negatives.

Offline CaseliusFIN

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1274 on: August 13, 2017, 01:01:26 am »
With women on military I'd go on the principle that requirements and demands must be same for everyone.

Based on my own experience, there was 3 women in my company. 2 of them were actually better than most of men in the tasks and they could do all what men could. The 1 exception though was in HQ Plt. The two were however in light infantry platoons, one as a FO and one as a platoon leader. Had to serve under both of them during my service due me being FO and also me being in light infantry. I can say that they were as professional as their male counterparts.

I actually found out today that other of the two is now commissioned 2nd Lieutenant in that same company. (Both were promoted to 2nd Lt (Res.) in the end) If explaining more about the unit it's centered around fighting in arctic and remote conditions with emphasis on survival skills and light infantry tactics.

What my point is that things should be looked upon just their abilities, how well they fare in different tasks and their physical condition. At-least in my experiences that was something they did right in my unit.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:03:37 am by CaseliusFIN »
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