Author Topic: The Dutch at Waterloo  (Read 44596 times)

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Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2012, 08:55:04 pm »
Nassau was not just a place, it was also a noble house, and had marital and dynastic ties to the house of Orange, hence the Principality of Orange-Nassau. In 1815 though Willem IV traded Nassau with Prussia for Luxembourg, and it was then ceded to the independant Duchy of Nassau.

Therefore, the two Nassau battalions at Waterloo were under Wellington's command, but not as part of the Netherlands' armies, they were simply post-Confederation anti-Bonapartist forces - contributing to the Seventh Coalition. Their commander, von Kruse, had actually fought against Wellington's forces before in Spain from his time in the Confederation of the Rhine, but they could apparently put the past behind them for the sake of the present.

I feel the need to correct you here:
There were eight battalions of nassauers in the 100 days, plus a volunteer company, not just two.
The first and second regiment both had the orange cockade, but I'm not entirely sure what their status was.
The '3rd' regiment of Nassuers, however, was actually the 28th regiment 'Regiment orange-nassau' in the Netherlands army, and had a Dutch style uniform. The 2nd (light) regiment, the regiment orange-nassau and the volunteer company were part of perponchers division (A dutch one).

On another note, General Chassé, whose division pushed back the middle guard and saved the British flank from an attack, had commanded the Holland brigade in Spain, against the British and was very anti-British, and made no secret of it.

Edit: Did a little check: the 1st regiment had their own (black) cockade, the others the orange cockade, and thus should be seen as a part of the Dutch army.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 09:19:14 pm by Duuring »

Offline Bluehawk

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 09:31:05 pm »
I knew I was sticking my neck out on Waterloo. It's a subject in which I have little interest, and of which clearly little understanding.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 09:43:16 pm »
Ah, don't worry, I know practiclly nothing about Russia except for some basic stuff. Everybody got their thing!

Shall I try to find some stuff out on Russians at Waterloo?

Offline Bluehawk

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2012, 05:52:18 am »
I wouldn't want to send you on a wild goose chase. There weren't any Russians at Waterloo, they had only just crossed the Rhine by June 25th, and were heading straight to Paris.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2012, 09:47:24 am »
Well, there was offcourse the Russian attaché, Di Borgo. And there was a Russian guy in the 2nd battalion infantry, in 1814. Not at Waterloo though.

Offline KillerMongoose

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2012, 04:12:52 pm »
Can someone make a movie or a series like the Sharpe series but without the ridiculous British bias? I seriously have yet to see a movie about Waterloo that makes any mention of the Dutch-Belgians, Brunswickers, Nassauers, or Hanoverians save for inaccurate criticisms of course. I still boil inside when I see how they portray the Prince of Orange in Sharpe's Waterloo and then act like the British soldiers were perfect examples of manly toughness and the Dutch-Belgians were pompous buffoons and cowards. I want to see a movie where Bijlandt's Brigade makes its stand, where Chasse's Division breaks the Middle Guard, Where Ghigny's Brigade throws themselves into the French lancers, and where Tripp's Brigade shatters the cuirassiers.

Also on a slightly off topic note, am I the only one who's noticed that Dutch units in Napoleon Total War have significantly lower stats than those of British troops or French troops? Why is this? It makes very little sense especially given that many Dutch-Belgians had fought in the French army for many years and many of them earned several honors for their service.

Offline Harry

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2012, 05:29:31 pm »
Are you talking about vanilla NTW? If you are there isn't really much surprise, sadly major faction troops always > minor faction troops, its just how it is regardless of any historical accuracy. There is a singleplayer mods though as I'm sure you are aware, the name of one escapes me but I remember it added a few elite dutch units to the French as well as overhauling the minor factions.

As for the Waterloo movie, I doubt you are ever going to see something like that. I won't lie, I'm not very knowledgeable in this area however I presume that by having time given to the Dutch-Belgians and the various events (which you gave examples of) you are taking away emphasis on the British, which like it or not sells better. The battle of Waterloo is an iconic event in the English speaking world and I can attest not many people here in the UK have even heard of Prussia, Nassau, Brunswick etc and I would imagine creators would just want to stick to Brits v big bad France in order to create a successful movie. Not that there is much demand for any such movie right now anyway, but then again we are nearing the 200 year anniversary so who knows.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2012, 05:36:28 pm »
two words.

Special effects.
they can do magic for every movie!

But yeah, I know what you mean. But Waterloo did end a significant period of world history, and a new movie/serie about it would be wonderful. And favorable, it would keep to the truth. There was a lot of mistrust between countries, between Generals, but heroic acts were done by soldiers from all nations.

Offline Harry

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2012, 05:46:49 pm »
Very important moment in history no doubt, but without big studios willing to take massive risks I say rather sadly that I seriously doubt we will ever see a movie the likes of which the world saw in 1970 based on Waterloo again. After all, we can no longer rely on the Soviets to draft in part of their army to be the extras, and the Hollywood studios can not claim an American victory for Waterloo!

Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2012, 05:48:27 pm »
[...] and the Hollywood studios can not claim an American victory for Waterloo!

This is probably the main reason.

Offline KillerMongoose

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2012, 04:57:52 pm »
Finally got my hands on some Osprey books, extremely interesting reads. Did you know the Prince of Orange was almost captured by chasseurs-a-cheval at Quatre Bras but several men from the 7de fought them off. The Prince tore a jeweled insignia of an order from his jacket and tossed it to them and shouted "There my brave fellows! You have all deserved it!" The men of the 7de cheered and fastened it to their colors.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2012, 08:36:31 pm »
I love how in the Osprey about Nassau troops, they once again degrade the Prince to a small lad who had no idea what he has doing and enjoys trowing lives away. Besides the obviously british biasing and napoleon-hating.

I quote: "They were met by a steady British line, and pushed back" "and so the dictator Napoleon, tyrant of Europa, was one again defeated".

Yet they forget to mention the firefight between the British line and the French guard went on for 10 minutes, and the British were pushed back, then came back, at the same time Chassé unleashed his division.


Offline KillerMongoose

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2012, 10:27:00 pm »
British bias is a sad but unescapable inevitability

Offline zac

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2012, 03:02:14 am »
rule Britannia!!!  :)

Offline KillerMongoose

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Re: The Dutch at Waterloo
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2012, 04:31:41 am »
Voor volk en Vaderland!