New-Gen Points [NGP] Update 12/10

[Alf]

17 pages in 1 day, it's definitive, lists are the best thing that could happen for the competitive scene 

I think the best thing would be us as a duo tbh

[Zeyden 狼]

17 pages in 1 day, it's definitive, lists are the best thing that could happen for the competitive scene 

I think the best thing would be us as a duo tbh

I'm not good enough for that... 😳

[Vegi.]

17 pages in 1 day, it's definitive, lists are the best thing that could happen for the competitive scene 

I think the best thing would be us as a duo tbh

Kinda impossible to win anything then

[Alf]

17 pages in 1 day, it's definitive, lists are the best thing that could happen for the competitive scene 

I think the best thing would be us as a duo tbh

I'm not good enough for that... 😳

Few are young bambi but I will teach you to become a glorious stag

[Herishey]

Spoiler

Gibby needs to move down a bit, he's solid enough yes but plays a very basic role in teams as a holder, doesn't have great mechanical skill and is not the best player at the moment in doing that role. He performed reasonably in the 7v7 and NWWC but not 'good'. Giorno did fairly well but it was in an Ireland team that didn't perform great against fairly weak opponents and in the 7v7/8v8 he was average, he should go down a bit also. HiReaper has performed pretty well over those tournaments I'd say he can stay around where he is more maybe drop by 1-2 points but 82 is not unfair. Marquez being in 81 seems completely confused to most people I've spoken to but I'm aware he played fairly well for Animals. He should drop a bit but not too much. For me Maximou and Narrow should probably be on the same level but Maximou has had more round time so it's a bit hard to judge. No way Fietta/sHype should be below blitz and barro, at the least they should be in line with him. Yes, Blitz maybe plays more rounds but as we saw in several tournaments recently, not very well. Naatsuu deserves to go up really based off his recent performances and Fralla down. Cody I also think could drop a little but nothing major. The lower tiers are harder to judge so I won't bother but guys like Irish, Firefly and Gi played very well in the 8v8 when we beat Envy/Movements teams in the group stages. Most of the top 10 I think is fair however based on those 3 tournaments though I'd argue Extaz had a worse tournament than Red and DOMI really in those 3 combined and that Jakob potentially had a better one than Bagins but that one is close for sure.

Other than that I'd also say Blacktham and TheDeaD could potentially drop a bit, they haven't performed badly but just haven't done much over the last few tournaments either. Oh and Steinmann has been terrible in those last few tournaments, his rating seems entirely random and needs to drop a fair bit. Hypno potentially needs to drop a bit also when taking into account the other two tournaments.

I hope posting something actually constructive might lead to others doing the same rather than flaming each-other.

As this is a good-faith constructive engagement I will talk about each of these in turn from my perspective, but keep in mind the ratings were done by 4 people and we disagreed on a lot of players. We also did not rate ourselves.

Gibby needs to move down a bit, he's solid enough yes but plays a very basic role in teams as a holder, doesn't have great mechanical skill and is not the best player at the moment in doing that role. He performed reasonably in the 7v7 and NWWC but not 'good'.

In NWWC almost everyone is playing "holder" while trying to set up teamplay, at least that's what we were all doing in England - except perhaps on the DOMI, Python flank and initially when Bagins and Python were in mid. It's evident in my video of the FRA match that I did successfully set up quite a few kills for Python and Bagins, as well as get a few out of the setups myself. In the 7v7, I had the most first picks in the semis and finals for Mages (against Gerher and TheDeaD in the semis and sHype and Narrow in the finals). For a better view of what I can do mechanically I'd suggest watching my 2v2 video (it's not relevant to the ratings but is a demonstration of mechanics) and my 7v7 video:

Spoiler

[close]

Although even the 7v7 is a little outdated, as I learnt a massive amount from Bagins during NWWC and a lot more recently from Zeyden and Jakob

Giorno did fairly well but it was in an Ireland team that didn't perform great against fairly weak opponents and in the 7v7/8v8 he was average, he should go down a bit also.

I think Giorno's rating is accurate comparative to those around him. He's a strong teamplayer that is good at applying pressure on a flank/enabling his partner by creating space. Him and HiReaper were what made Animals (Red and Zenon being very impactful as well) so solid. Debatable if he's a little too high numerically but I think he's in roughly the right place.

HiReaper has performed pretty well over those tournaments I'd say he can stay around where he is more maybe drop by 1-2 points but 82 is not unfair.

HiReaper has excellent pressure application and consistency to go with it, and can do it on wall or 2nd in. If I were picking players in a draft league I'd personally pick him over some of those above him, but in terms of tournament performances he is justifiably rated I think.

Marquez being in 81 seems completely confused to most people I've spoken to but I'm aware he played fairly well for Animals. He should drop a bit but not too much.

I agree with you, I would drop Marquez by a few points. But, as I said, the list is made by 4 people and the others thought a placement this high was more accurate.

For me Maximou and Narrow should probably be on the same level but Maximou has had more round time so it's a bit hard to judge.

They're very close together on the list and as Maximou started in NWWC it's difficult to justify Narrow being above him. They play in different positions, Narrow in mid and Maxime on flank, so it may be a matter of logistics for FRA but I think Maximou is the more reliable of the two - he also had a good performance in the NWWC finals.

No way Fietta/sHype should be below blitz and barro, at the least they should be in line with him. Yes, Blitz maybe plays more rounds but as we saw in several tournaments recently, not very well.

Personally, I think Fietta and sHype both suffer from the same conditioning in RT. In the Mages final, Fietta got first picked in the first two rounds because he was lunging - then he took a backfoot and stayed on Achilles' hip and their flank started winning. There isn't much else to go on for him, but from our POVs when he plays without Achilles he's quite unimpactful and not particularly difficult to pressure. sHype is a hard one. I'm perhaps overly negative because I was picking him in the 7v7 final, but I can see the justification for putting him higher. We tried to avoid using "matchups" (in the sense of, I outplayed x so I should be above them) but it forms part of people's opinions regardless of that. I think he can be quite inconsistent though.

Naatsuu deserves to go up really based off his recent performances and Fralla down.

Naatsuu definitely could be higher by a couple points, but I think he is overly aggressive and lunges far too much. It catches people out that underestimate his range, but it also gets him killed against people that are ready for it and prepare a counter up-down on the block. But, as you say, he's had strong performances so up to 65 could make sense. Fralla down makes sense to me.

Cody I also think could drop a little but nothing major.

Again, not in disagreement.

The lower tiers are harder to judge so I won't bother but guys like Irish, Firefly and Gi played very well in the 8v8 when we beat Envy/Movements teams in the group stages.

Firefly and Gi have both played well in the recently considered tournaments, and could have a few more points for it, but I don't think they're being done dirty with their current placements.

Most of the top 10 I think is fair however based on those 3 tournaments though I'd argue Extaz had a worse tournament than Red and DOMI really in those 3 combined and that Jakob potentially had a better one than Bagins but that one is close for sure.

Extazz hasn't had amazing tournaments and is lower for that, but I still think he performed better than those below him. As much as I love PR Curtis, he has had a rough time of it in tournaments recently. Jakob could be one or two points higher, he's definitely in that sort of area, but it's very close between him and Bagins. Hard to come down decisively on.

Other than that I'd also say Blacktham and TheDeaD could potentially drop a bit, they haven't performed badly but just haven't done much over the last few tournaments either.

I don't disagree.

Steinmann has been terrible in those last few tournaments, his rating seems entirely random and needs to drop a fair bit.

I don't think it's random, but I also don't disagree that he should be lower.

Hypno potentially needs to drop a bit also when taking into account the other two tournaments.

I don't have much perspective on this, I didn't contribute much to his ranking but I'd probably agree.

If this is based upon nwwc/7v7 etc how are myself, firefly, caskie so low? (also where is Mike)

I don't think you are that low but I referred to this a bit in my reply to Herishey. I wanted Mike on but I believe it was contested that he hasn't played enough. I wouldn't disagree with a few extra points.

To just pour fuel on the fire

Whenever Fietta played in NSS, surrounded by mediocre players, he was fucking dogshit 

As gibby rightly said, Fietta likes to think he makes plays when in actual fact plays are made on him 

so true!

[close]

I'm not doubting Giorno or HiReapers skill, they are both really good groupfighters but you said yourself it's based on the last 3 tournaments of NWWC, 7v7 and 8v8 and if we're looking at just their performances in those 3 they were of course not bad but I don't think they're better than some of the others they are above. Perhaps in HiReapers case as he did do very well in some matches.

[Ciombwoy]

If this is based upon nwwc/7v7 etc how are myself, firefly, caskie so low? (also where is Mike)

Same goes with me xaartil naatsuu and especially komar i guess

[Python | Smeagol]

Mate this pro100pro guy is TERRIBLE why is he SO BLOODY HIGH GUYS? gibblywibbly jibbster, "an intense military campaign intended to bring about a swift victory.", HighReaper and girno you guys have some explaining to do!

[DOMI]

why is no one talking about this wursti schmuck at the top of tier 2, he has never been better than bunter and he has been vastly overrated by all 4 of u guys, poor poor oversight imo

[Fietta]

Mate this pro100pro guy is TERRIBLE why is he SO BLOODY HIGH GUYS? gibblywibbly jibbster, "an intense military campaign intended to bring about a swift victory.", HighReaper and girno you guys have some explaining to do!

Yeah Narrow is fucking garbage mate stupid french noob

[nIvan]

BLITZ UR FUCKING GAY

[Hertz]

why is no one talking about this wursti schmuck at the top of tier 2, he has never been better than bunter and he has been vastly overrated by all 4 of u guys, poor poor oversight imo

Pipe down you hexagon player

[Vegi.]

If this is based upon nwwc/7v7 etc how are myself, firefly, caskie so low? (also where is Mike)

Same goes with me xaartil naatsuu and especially komar i guess

Rejection personnel

[Chuckster]

No way Fietta/sHype should be below blitz and barro, at the least they should be in line with him. Yes, Blitz maybe plays more rounds but as we saw in several tournaments recently, not very well.

Personally, I think Fietta and sHype both suffer from the same conditioning in RT. In the Mages final, Fietta got first picked in the first two rounds because he was lunging - then he took a backfoot and stayed on Achilles' hip and their flank started winning. There isn't much else to go on for him, but from our POVs when he plays without Achilles he's quite unimpactful and not particularly difficult to pressure. sHype is a hard one. I'm perhaps overly negative because I was picking him in the 7v7 final, but I can see the justification for putting him higher. We tried to avoid using "matchups" (in the sense of, I outplayed x so I should be above them) but it forms part of people's opinions regardless of that. I think he can be quite inconsistent though.

I don't quite understand your point, sure I was picked but just from a finals you can't make assumptions, I didn't in any case play bad - but you're obviously deluded to base it off one match. I don't need to be impactful with Achilles, because that's his role as we discussed and not mine. Again, there's plenty of times I've not played with Achilles and somewhere else and played extremely well, the match before the finals I played exceptionally well. If this list is solely off 'what you've seen', then how are you rating all the other 80 players on this list which you haven't seen and the people you have seen is based on one match.

Bagins actually made Renegades on the basis of it not potentially being a 'winning' team, at least not at the start, but wanted to improve on the players it has as you guys have 'potential', but potential doesn't mean you're a great player. Also, making picking compilations also doesn't really show much as you're also not seeing how you're not getting picked. According to Blitz's video looked like Mages was farming RT, but that simply wasn't true. There's two sides to a video, but obviously you're not going to show you dying. If you were smart, you'd understand that the majority of the performances given from Renegades, is because of teamplay and leadership rather than individual skill, as you've said, you've learnt a lot, but haven't seen you perform outside of the same players you have been playing with. Teamplay is obviously very useful and is talent, but being spoon-fed constantly doesn't in any sense mean you're playing for yourself.

England performed well (still questionable plays from you in middle, and Hypno too), however, if you actually analysed how ENG have played, you can tell that it was because of how Bagins made you play, which is why it was a mess before Bagins took over and at that point and still up until the finals, there were questions if you would actually play in it, and thus competition began between you and Cody. Bagins is trying to place players in the right places and telling you how to play, which is great for winning, but doesn't mean a lot when it comes to individuality.

I understand lists are subjective, but making wild claims based on someone getting picked a couple of times is silly and then basing your entire rating on that is absolutely strange to me. It's just convenient that these points were made by the people who've been playing with each other for the past couple months and these same people are also exaggerated in this list.

you are as weak as whales by acting like that.

[jakob.]

tbf i really do not understand why mels is that high. there is definently other players who are better than him now a days - he also barely plays. rikus for example has been performing a lot better in recent tournaments, especially nwwc

[Strawhead]