Author Topic: The General Political Thread  (Read 519867 times)

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Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4965 on: March 17, 2019, 02:36:42 pm »
I genuinely don't understand your point with the graph. Do you think that those companies only operate in the country/continent they originate from? Besides that, the graph just shows growth in Asia at the cost of the US market.

No they don't, but I think Europeans might want to be owners rather than simply customers of big tech. And no it doesn't show growth in Asia and the expense of the US.

Not that any of that will change post-Brexit anyway, they'll still need to comply with EU regulations and there are still cheaper places to operate from than the UK.

In tech it's not really about operational costs. Silicon Valley is an extremely expensive place to set up/run a business from. It's rather mainly to do with whether you can attract the talent, obtain seed money and have the right regulatory environment in place.   


But obviously muh oppressive EU overlords stop me accessing Google, I'll be so grateful to leave the EU and have more personal data stripped.

The EU Copyright Directive hasn't been passed yet so Google is fine for now. When it comes to personal data that's the price you pay for having a product that's a) free (or much cheaper than it otherwise would be) and b) personalised and responsive to you. All GDPR is doing is stifling EU start-ups whilst Asia and North America extend their lead over the 'little Europeans'.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4966 on: March 17, 2019, 08:26:21 pm »
You honestly think the UK is going to out-race the US and Asia to the bottom of the barrel?

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4967 on: March 17, 2019, 09:55:42 pm »
You honestly think the UK is going to out-race the US and Asia to the bottom of the barrel?

'bottom of the barrel' is very revealing as to the EU mindset, as if you guys can get away with opting out of the race by being some kind of economic island. You tried that approach for years and it didn't get you anywhere, so you entered 'jealousy mode' and started taking punitive measures against US big tech.

Yes, we'll certainly become much more competitive against the US and Asia. Despite EU membership the UK still attracts more tech investment than any other European country (in fact we've extended our lead since the Brexit vote).

In the field of healthcare for example, particularly with things like genomic prediction, the UK is well placed to beat the US and China because we have decades worth of publicly-owned NHS data which is an asset no other country really has. The trick is in how to leverage that for commercial use.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4968 on: March 18, 2019, 08:25:58 pm »
How about you guys manage to actually leave first before starting talking about 'you guys'.

Offline Big Pete

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4969 on: March 19, 2019, 07:51:44 am »
Netflix Fourth industrial revolution btw. Buying shows licences and selling membership to people, high technology btw.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 07:54:13 am by Big Pete »

Offline MrTiki

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4970 on: March 19, 2019, 01:27:56 pm »
Sorry just going back to the graph, it states US 64% from 67% in 2015 and for Asia 31% from 28% in 2015. That's growth in Asia and shrinking in the US.
Oceania, South America and Canada/Mexico aren't shown, but whatever numbers that graph is using to make the percentages (100% without the aforementioned countries) do show Asian growth at the cost of the US.

Of course if you could explain where the graph came from and the context maybe it would shed some light on what you're trying to show with it? Just throwing a graph in does nothing to help your argument, even if it makes you feel smart.

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4971 on: March 19, 2019, 04:11:01 pm »
Tiki, you said it was at the cost of the US. It's not, it's simply the US share decreasing as the overall market value increases. US tech didn't lose value in that period, it's just that Asian firms grew faster.

The graph shows the market value and regional/national affiliation of the 60 biggest tech platform companies in the world (title/description is in German but is fairly easy for even a beginner to translate). Unsurprisingly Oceania etc don't feature. Graph itself tells you it's attributed to Dr Holger Schmidt at TU Darmstadt/Handelsblatt/Netzoekonom.de/etc. Basically he's a digital economist who uses metrics like this to track the performance of the global tech sector. 


Offline MrTiki

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4972 on: March 21, 2019, 02:46:09 am »
I'm well aware what it says on the graph, thanks. My point was, you lead with an edgy "Good luck without us" then that graph. You provided no context, nor did it appear to relate at all to the discussion.

You're right that it's not necessarily at the cost of, although it still implies that the EU is growing at a faster rate than the US (to remain at a constant % where the US falls behind).
If it's just the distribution of the value of the top 60 companies, it ignores the vast numbers of BILLION dollar companies (Mrd. is billion, which is fairly easy for a even a beginner to translate).

Regardless, this graph (showing only 60 companies from one market sector of which the majority are not EU or UK) was just taken completely out of context and dropped into the discussion as if it in ANY way shows that the EU will suffer without the UK post Brexit. It does not show that (even though that's true). If you're going to use graphics to support your arguments please at least keep them relevant.

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4973 on: March 21, 2019, 02:44:19 pm »
We've talked about tech plenty of times on this thread, especially given Article 13. It is very relevant.

Comparing the top 60 companies is a valid metric. The FTSE 100, CAC 40, DAX 30 etc are all valid economic indicators for instance. Also the smallest company on there has a market cap of $2.8 Bn so it's not as if you have to be that massive to be represented.

And it's not simply 'one market sector'. Tech is shaking up just about every industry. Companies on that graph do everything from e-commerce to hospitality, finance, media etc. It's not that the EU will suffer, but rather that it's in a bad place regardless of what happens with Brexit. But since 'more Europe' isn't the right solution to the problem it's not going to be fixed any time soon.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4974 on: March 21, 2019, 05:02:20 pm »
So are you guys gonna leave at the end of the month or not?

Offline MrTiki

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4975 on: March 21, 2019, 05:30:29 pm »
Steven the point still stands, please explain how that graph supports your argument.
Demonstrating the market values of 60 international companies at a single point in time shows very little, especially without any focus on British (or European) companies.

There are other graphs which show a very different picture:

https://www.ft.com/content/cf51e840-7147-11e7-93ff-99f383b09ff9

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4976 on: March 21, 2019, 10:28:44 pm »
I can't see that link as you need an FT subscription.

From the horse's mouth (EU Commission briefing paper published last week):

"Around the globe, traditionally strong industries are losing out to tech start-ups. Although this phenomenon is common around the world, the emerging champions of this competition
tend not to be European, but rather American and, increasingly, Chinese."

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EPSC_Industrial-Policy.pdf

Unfortunately the answer they've come up with (*spoiler alert*) is 'more Europe' but at least they've recognised the problem.

They also cite Schmidt's work where you can see the latest version of the graph (TL;DR Europe still a distant third with 3% share)
https://gyazo.com/d34cda5068207617b2274e944e4a93f8

Offline Svensson

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4977 on: March 23, 2019, 03:54:13 pm »
Worthwhile read regarding hysterical, doomsday-type rhetoric climate activism.

https://quillette.com/2019/03/21/when-children-protest-adults-should-tell-them-the-truth/

"The medium of childlike innocence has become the environmental message, and been placed on a pedestal above criticism. But, given her own insistence on the vital urgency of the matter at hand, heartwarming optics ought to be rather less important than the lack of substance. Thunberg’s rhetoric has a tendency to lapse into demagogy—simplistic, emotive, accusatory, and apocalyptic."
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 05:15:08 pm by Svensson »

Offline Sgt.Winters

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4978 on: March 23, 2019, 06:12:56 pm »
I wish these people would just say they are trying to save humanity and not Earth.

Offline McPero

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4979 on: March 23, 2019, 11:57:34 pm »
Just give her the Mandate of Heaven. Kids should rule, they know best.