Author Topic: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod  (Read 102869 times)

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Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #210 on: August 08, 2015, 08:26:37 pm »
Looks good, the soft hats definitely make them stand out a little more from the King's Lifeguard. As I have said before, one part of Prince Rupert's Regiment of Horse was designated as his Lifeguard, I have heard mention that many in the lifeguard wore Cuirassier armour (although like much of the history of the armies, we do not know for sure), if you were able to introduce more ranks then maybe it could go:
Trooper (like above soft hats)
Lifeguard (Cuirassier, maybe with red tunics? As mentioned one officer is reported to have ordered cloth to make red uniforms)
Trumpeter
Cornet
Officer
  I like the blue sash as well, again makes them different from the King's Lifeguard (I am sure the King's Lifeguard wore red sashes). Most Royalists seem to have worn red sashes but then it seems some of the cavalry wore blue as well. With the tunics, maybe a little variation, perhaps the odd one in brown, faded red or buff?

  On a separate note I just had a thought. The American Civil War mod added preachers, they would certainly fit into this type of mod, particularly the Parliamentarian side.
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Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #211 on: August 08, 2015, 09:18:29 pm »
Looks good, the soft hats definitely make them stand out a little more from the King's Lifeguard. As I have said before, one part of Prince Rupert's Regiment of Horse was designated as his Lifeguard, I have heard mention that many in the lifeguard wore Cuirassier armour (although like much of the history of the armies, we do not know for sure), if you were able to introduce more ranks then maybe it could go:
Trooper (like above soft hats)
Lifeguard (Cuirassier, maybe with red tunics? As mentioned one officer is reported to have ordered cloth to make red uniforms)
Trumpeter
Cornet
Officer
  I like the blue sash as well, again makes them different from the King's Lifeguard (I am sure the King's Lifeguard wore red sashes). Most Royalists seem to have worn red sashes but then it seems some of the cavalry wore blue as well. With the tunics, maybe a little variation, perhaps the odd one in brown, faded red or buff?

  On a separate note I just had a thought. The American Civil War mod added preachers, they would certainly fit into this type of mod, particularly the Parliamentarian side.

Good ideas. I will make Rupert's horse as you ordered. Problem with preachers is dabing. My voice sounds strange,and I don't know anyone, who could voice it
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 09:22:02 pm by ProDazzer_ »

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #212 on: August 08, 2015, 10:31:48 pm »
  No worries. Accuracy is an issue that will never be solved when we have so little information, it is about giving the person who plays this mod the feel that the units are as accurate and enjoyable to play as possible.
  With the priests, sadly I do not know any puritan preachers, perhaps someone else may be able to volunteer? I don't think I could pull off the crazy puritan, what with the singing of Psalms and so on!
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Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #213 on: August 09, 2015, 06:46:45 pm »
Final version of Covenanter Officer




Looks good, the soft hats definitely make them stand out a little more from the King's Lifeguard. As I have said before, one part of Prince Rupert's Regiment of Horse was designated as his Lifeguard, I have heard mention that many in the lifeguard wore Cuirassier armour (although like much of the history of the armies, we do not know for sure), if you were able to introduce more ranks then maybe it could go:
Trooper (like above soft hats)
Lifeguard (Cuirassier, maybe with red tunics? As mentioned one officer is reported to have ordered cloth to make red uniforms)
Trumpeter
Cornet
Officer
  I like the blue sash as well, again makes them different from the King's Lifeguard (I am sure the King's Lifeguard wore red sashes). Most Royalists seem to have worn red sashes but then it seems some of the cavalry wore blue as well. With the tunics, maybe a little variation, perhaps the odd one in brown, faded red or buff?

  On a separate note I just had a thought. The American Civil War mod added preachers, they would certainly fit into this type of mod, particularly the Parliamentarian side.

Im quite not sure if you mean you mean by cuirass this or this
Should Troopers have buffcoats and cuirasses too?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 08:19:35 pm by ProDazzer_ »

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #214 on: August 09, 2015, 08:46:03 pm »
  I mean more 17th Century style Cuirassiers. By the 19th century Cuirassiers only had a helmet, a Cuirass (the front breastplate)and a backplate (the picture on the left appears to be a French Napoleonic Cuirass). the picture on the right is more late Medieval/Early Renaisance.
  From what I know, Prince Rupert had a troop known as his Lifeguard that made up part of the regiment but were sometimes detached as a separate unit. It is not known exactly what they wore but I have heard mention that the lifeguard were equipped as cuirassiers with the full armour.
http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Cuirassiers_Wallpaper.jpg
http://www.minecreek.info/eastern-association/notes-jhv.html
http://blog.helion.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Hazelriggs-Lobsters-a-regiment-of-Curiassiers-were-destroyed-at-Roundaway-Down.jpg
  There was only one regiment equipped entirely as Cuirassiers during the war (Hasselrig's on the parliamentarian side) but some individuals may have purchased full sets of armour. I would separate it so the troopers look pretty much like you have done them (maybe mix in a few buff coats as well) whilst the Cuirassier option are equipped as fully armoured Cuirrasiers with everything.
  So:
Trooper- (soft hat, possibly a lobster pot, breast and back plate, maybe a buff coat. Tunic either do blue, brown or red)
Lifeguard- (Full armour, helmet, Breast and Back Plate, armour for the arms and legs etc.)
Trumpeter- (Probably wouldn't give them armour,  have them in a buff coat with a soft hat)
Cornet- (equipped probably the same as the trooper)
Officer- (probably wouldn't change the one you have. In terms of colour of sash I suppose blue is good as it does make them stand out from the King's Lifeguard)
  Do some in red but mix it up a little, blue will be fine in order to add some variation in uniforms and to distinguish them.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 08:54:18 pm by Black Watch 1745 »
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Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #215 on: August 09, 2015, 08:54:52 pm »
  I mean more 17th Century style Cuirassiers. By the 19th century Cuirassiers only had a helmet, a Cuirass (the front breastplate)and a backplate (the picture on the left appears to be a French Napoleonic Cuirass). the picture on the right is more late Medieval/Early Renaisance.
  From what I know, Prince Rupert had a troop known as his Lifeguard that made up part of the regiment but were sometimes detached as a separate unit. It is not known exactly what they wore but I have heard mention that the lifeguard were equipped as cuirassiers with the full armour.
http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Cuirassiers_Wallpaper.jpg
http://www.minecreek.info/eastern-association/notes-jhv.html
http://blog.helion.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Hazelriggs-Lobsters-a-regiment-of-Curiassiers-were-destroyed-at-Roundaway-Down.jpg
  There was only one regiment equipped entirely as Cuirassiers during the war (Hasselrig's on the parliamentarian side) but some individuals may have purchased full sets of armour. I would separate it so the troopers look pretty much like you have done them (maybe mix in a few buff coats as well) whilst the Cuirassier option are equipped as fully armoured Cuirrasiers with everything.
  So:
Trooper- (soft hat, possibly a lobster pot, breast and back plate, maybe a buff coat. Tunic either do blue, brown or red)
Lifeguard- (Full armour, helmet, Breast and Back Plate, armour for the arms and legs etc.)
Trumpeter- (Probably wouldn't give them armour,  have them in a buff coat with a soft hat)
Cornet- (equipped probably the same as the trooper)
Officer- (probably wouldn't change the one you have. In terms of colour of sash I suppose blue is good as it does make them stand out from the King's Lifeguard)
  D some in red but mix it up a little, blue will be fine in order to add some variation in uniforms and to distinguish them.

Ok. But It will be kinda weird, because cuirasssiers these cuirassiers will share cuirasses with Parliamentary one
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 09:05:51 pm by ProDazzer_ »

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #216 on: August 09, 2015, 09:09:39 pm »
  That is the problem with a civil war they all look the same :)
  Most pictures I have seen of Cuirassiers have them wearing sashes so you could give Haselrig's orange sashes and Ruperts lifeguard either blue or red to ensure they are more distinguishable. I heard as well that the Earl of Essex also had a troop of Lifeguards equipped as Cuirassiers (sometimes referred to as a regiment in its own right, like Ruperts). The wearing of full armour was going out fashion in this era and by the end of the First Civil War I doubt many men were still wearing it.
  There is no concrete evidence that all the troops in Rupert's Lifeguard (being one troop of about a hundred men in a regiment of over 500 on paper with several troops) but some individuals did wear Cuirassier armour and it would be a little unfair to give Parliament a load of tanks on horses whilst not letting a least a few Royalists counter that.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 09:18:13 pm by Black Watch 1745 »
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Offline Wigster600

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #217 on: August 09, 2015, 09:13:26 pm »
  That is the problem with a civil war they all look the same :)
 
You've just given me an idea, why not force remove overhead banners?  :D

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #218 on: August 09, 2015, 09:20:15 pm »
  That would be a good idea, the problem is I will end up massacring my own men if I know me!  ;D
  That said it would be accurate, sometimes the only thing to show whose side you were on was a sash, it would make people work together a little more and be careful with who they are shooting at/stabbing.
  If voice shouts are changed then that would help. Royalists shouting 'God save the King!' and Parliament shouting something appropriately religious (or consisting of four letter words).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 12:28:12 am by Black Watch 1745 »
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Offline ~Midnight~

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #219 on: August 10, 2015, 09:18:39 am »
Just stumbled upon this, it looks amazing.. Good Luck to you man, I hope it will be fantastic ^

Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #220 on: August 10, 2015, 09:53:24 am »
Just stumbled upon this, it looks amazing.. Good Luck to you man, I hope it will be fantastic ^

Thanks for your support  :)

Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #221 on: August 10, 2015, 01:50:09 pm »
Should I use this flag for Cromwell's Ironsides?

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #222 on: August 10, 2015, 02:08:05 pm »
Should I use this flag for Cromwell's Ironsides?
From this site: http://wiki.bcw-project.org/parliamentarian/horse-regiments/oliver-cromwell
'A number of cornets belonging to officers of Cromwell's regiment were recorded. The fields of these flags are of different colours, red, yellow, blue and white. While the ideal was for all troops of the same regiment to carry cornets with the same field colour, this was not strictly adhered to in the army of the Eastern Association, as Manchester's horse also carried cornets of different colours. It is also possible that some of the recorded cornets relate to officers' service prior to or after leaving Cromwell's regiment.

Colonel Oliver Cromwell's cornet design is unknown. In a contemporary manuscript of flag illustrations it is left blank, implying either that it was plain white, or that the illustrator didn't get around to completing it. A plain white cornet is plausible, as Cromwell's favoured colour when later commanding the army in Ireland was white (whether this refers to infantry or cavalry flags or sashes is unclear, but Cromwell was painted wearing a white sash). Additionally, colonels and more senior officers often chose a plain design for their own troop's cornet, sometimes made of patterned fabric (for example Sir Thomas Fairfax and Lord Grey of Wark). Therefore a white cornet is the most likely candidate for Cromwell's troop but this is in no way definite. There is no contemporary evidence for the troop carrying a black flag with white lion derived from Cromwell's coat of arms, which is a modern 'reconstruction'.

Captain Henry Ireton's cornet was red with a red and white fringe and a complicated white scroll PRO (used for both lines) DIVINIS QUI AMITTIT SERVAT and HUMANIS VIM VI).

Captain James Berry's cornet was red with a red and yellow fringe with a diagonal motto in white with no scroll Pro Rege et Lege Parati).

Captain Samuel Porter's cornet was yellow with a yellow and white fringe featuring an arm wielding a sword emerging from a cloud (all proper) and a four-part scroll with the motto PRO FIDE SEMEL TRADITA).

Captain John Grove's cornet was white with a white fringe, showing an armoured arm weilding a sword (proper) and a three-part scroll FOR TRVETH AND PEACE).'

  The flag in the above picture is his standard as Lord Protector if my memory serves me right and was not used till well after the Civil War, certainly no earlier than the execution of the King. I have seen some Parliamentarian re-enactors use this standard although again it wasn't the official flag till 1649:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_English_Interregnum#/media/File:Flag_of_the_Commonwealth_(1649-1651).svg
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:20:57 pm by Black Watch 1745 »
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Offline Dazzer

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #223 on: August 10, 2015, 03:21:34 pm »
Okey's Dragoons Flag

Haslerig's Cuirassiers Flag

Offline Black Watch 1745

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Re: Pike & Shotte - English Civil War Mod
« Reply #224 on: August 10, 2015, 03:28:25 pm »
  Looking good. I did read somewhere that cavalry guidons (flags) were quite small, some being only 60cm/2 feet, but it is probably better to make them a little bigger. Dragoon flags as well were shaped differently from other flags (see the bottom of this picture):
http://www.wargamesdesigns.com/uploads/8/8/4/5/8845944/3388630_orig.png
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 03:46:33 pm by Black Watch 1745 »
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