Author Topic: Community Rep Thread (September-October)  (Read 45717 times)

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #345 on: September 15, 2016, 06:11:47 pm »
Spoiler
Although this discussion has petered out somewhat, I would like to offer my thoughts (not condensed for anyone's convenience):

For those of you who recognize me you probably know that I was a part of both the 9y and the 3e. For those few of who are still around, you may recognize me as a member of the 12th and the majority of its reincarnations. For those of you who are no longer with us you might recognize me as a member of the 53e (RIP NEC). And for most of you I am a nobody and you've never pressed E in your life. I have led extensively in almost every regiment that I have been a part of (excluding the FKI and 63e [surprise I was in this regiment as well!]). I have also trolled around extensively on the forums and taken part in banter from the EPI to Church's glorious FG. Although Tico, Grimsight and the other respected leaders I have worked with may have certain perceptions about me as a community member, I know they respect the heavy involvement I have had in the NW Community-whether or not I have 6,000 posts or 10 tournament trophies under my belt.

All of this is not said for the benefit of my ego as, if you know me personally, I have never headed a solid (my 9y tribute regiments, though impressive, faded with the collective interest in NW) regiment. And I apparently was only ever good at kicking because I had shit internet for years and crutched on Turkish kicking. I say all of this because I know there are some people willing to go through this block, and acknowledge the weight I carry with my opinions on this matter.

The NW Community is not what it used to be. That in and of itself is not an inherently good or bad thing. I, personally, see NW, and the community, as a shell of its former self. It would unfair of me to ignore the elephant in the room: Warband and this module have been around longer than many of us thought possible both in the NW community, and in the other mods that have graced this game. Obviously, this affects NW as both players, regiments, and visions of the game have come and gone over the years. But I do not attribute the issues in NW today solely to a release date many years ago. From my observations, Warband has maintained it's usual population over the years. NW is only one part of the greater Warband collection, but it receives the same attention and treatment in sales as Native. The game has the players, but they aren't playing the game.

I will forego the discussion on the single player experience and the massive disparity between online and offline Warband players for the sake of this post.

Napoleonic Wars is just as good as it has always been as a game. FSE has maintained, while the Community has polished the aesthetic of it to change things up for the long-term players. And as the numbers show, people are not afraid to jump into this game because of perceived obsolescence. Napoleonic Wars is struggling because of the social dynamic that made me, and many others, play, rage quit, return, and love this game has been eroded. Say what you will about the NW of a few years ago. For all of its flaws and problems within the community, regiments thrived in and among of themselves, with and for each other's enjoyment. We all picked on the FKI, and Millander double ranked us to crap. The 3e trumped Milly and posted its win in bold in the TS channel. And at the end of the day we all showed up in the same events, and trashed each other in chat. And adding to the banter, Walko and the 4te strutting around with Bond and the 89th spazzing out. My timelines are not perfect, but I experienced all of this (both the big and the not so small) in the NW that I came to love. The reality of NW is that we no longer have the same faces to organize the community as we once had. Arguably, there are just as many bodies, but no faces with them. How did we get to this point? Time is one factor. But people are another. Specifically the people who run the regiments that make up this community. And to "bandwagon", as someone will most likely lash out, with the sentiment in this thread: the 63e has not helped.

Karth, though his actions and character are up to the court of public opinion (if there even is one in this divided community), worked to operate and maintain the 63e Siege server for years. In another time, I would thank Karth for housing 200 players. Today, I question his desire to strengthen this community. The discussion on whether or not Karth should change his server rules, or rather does the community have the authority to enforce a rule change, should have ended as quickly as it started: Karth's private server is his to dictate. The matter at hand is not Karth's right to administrate as he see fits, it is whether or not Karth's administration is helping the community. And when I say community, I do not mean the 63e with and in themselves. The Community is the cobbling of regiments (the 63e included) and players (both pub and private[?]) that come together to play this game. But it seems we are having issues cobbling up.

The fact of the matter is the 63e's monopoly (yes this is the proper use of the word please keep childish attempts at discourse away) on the the public (and often newcomer) population stifles any attempts for the NW Community to grow and thrive. My argument in short: Regiments cannot recruit, regiments cannot grow, community stagnates. The 63e Siege server, whether through merit or by virtue of being last one alive, attracts the most attention from the public. If your counter to my argument is, "Then the "Community" should form their own server against the 63e's" (which is the obvious sentiment revealed within this thread) then you are admitting to putting yourselves before the NW Community. Not only that, you are expressly challenging the community to a fight it cannot handle. If we had the excess of players that all of us have wanted, then the Community could survive a de facto civil war and there would be no need for serious discussion. If your response so far is, "that is not our problem" then you (I am addressing the 63e) nor anybody else has any reason being here. And guess what: you can totally do that and if that's what you want, what can anyone do about it. For Karth, and all those within the 63e that solely want to see how far they can go this is fine practice. If I was fixated on this vision of NW, I would be doing what Karth has, and continues to do. If Karth wants to do him, for him, and his gaming community, then so be it. But do not allow him to feign otherwise nor hold any positions within this community.

Now I assume if you are partaking in this thread, you care enough about the community to defend against any and all criticism levied against your respective parties. If this is not the case with the 63e, then they should not be here and should continue doing them. If this is the case, there is no discussion to be had. For the sake of this post, I assume there is some desire to normalize the tensions within this community and bring it back to some status quo that we can all agree on until this game passes and we all jump to another. If this is the case, if Karth truly wishes to defend himself on this community forum, AND put effort in to restore it to some something we can all respect, then let him keep his position as a core member (whether you like it or not) and contributor to this community.

Although I detest this saying immensely, it does at times take two to argue. And, if we follow that same logic, it takes two to find a solution. And if we take that logic in a tangent, not one party is solely responsible for our situation now. Before I continue, I do not legitimize any of Squirts' comments within this thread and I do not want one word of my post to resemble some type of support for him and his childish behavior (trust me, I was like him when I was 12 and started Warband- and I have grown).

The non-63e side of the discussion is at fault as awell, whether or not to the same degree as Karth and the 63e are is up to nobody. Regiment quality has gone down and I have seen in one week some of the weakest regiments both in size, and quality I have ever seen. Yes, the 63e situation may have affected it, but weak leadership among the regiments of NW has played a large role. The inter-regimental drama that has been created over the years has split regiments up and decentralized skill to the point of nonexistence. In this regard, the community as a whole can do better in both ensuring the encouragement, creation, and growth of regiments that truly care. Whether or not this is possible is an entirely different discussion.

On a more macro level, the organization of events, and inter-regimental cooperation has degraded. In this area, I applaud AP0C for attempting to bring the community together in some way. If we want to improve NW, we all need to take a hard look at ourselves and find the effort to put into this game. And I am writing this post for the sole purpose of putting forth the effort I want to see reflected in this community.

I do not have any authority over anyone, but I hope if you have read this post, you understand the choices we have. There is no more discussion we can have on this matter. Banter can go on, but meaningful discourse eventually comes to end and requires action. Whether or not we want to put in the effort, is for all of us to ask ourselves. If we all would prefer (or allow) the current state of NW to continue, then so be it. The 63e can do them. And everyone else can keep doing what they are doing.

We all need to change. Karth and the 63e need to be a part of that change, if they don't that is fine. But they represent no other community than their own. If you find that phrasing harsh, it is the truth. In addition to the 63e, the rest of the community needs to ask themselves if they want to put in the effort to make the game what it can be before its time truly comes.

Karth, we all just want to have fun. Push for the community, your effort could bring it back.

Community, we have gone through a lot, and its up to us now to decide if we want to or not. I have made my mind.

And if at the end of the day, NW has stayed the same, we can look forward to Bannerlord, WoR, and BCoF. And that is fine too.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Edited for grammar, PM me or discuss here if you wish. I hope to have pushed us to a decision, for the sake of this game that we all love. Also, I acknowledge I am not a 100% unbiased member in this community. But, in this matter, I pride myself for taking both sides and presenting the decisions we have before us. Pettiness has weakened this game, I want its chance to come back to be as pure as I can humanly make it.
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Pro tip: Don't write long essays. People on FSE don't read them. Instead post a meme

It was actually very well written. Some do, BabyJ. ;)
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Offline AsianP

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #346 on: September 15, 2016, 06:25:09 pm »
Well written Antonio
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Offline McPero

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #347 on: September 15, 2016, 08:03:38 pm »
Well written Antonio
I bet you didn't even read it hahahah xD
I read it don't really get the point his mostly rambling around, could have made it much shorter.

Offline AP0CALYPS3

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #348 on: September 15, 2016, 08:24:54 pm »
Well written Antonio
I bet you didn't even read it hahahah xD
I read it don't really get the point his mostly rambling around, could have made it much shorter.

I get what he is saying and I completely agree. I have tried to make similar points earlier in this thread.

Though, he truly did write an essay, he had an intro paragraph introducing himself and all.

Offline ~Midnight~

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #349 on: September 15, 2016, 09:30:36 pm »
can I have a tl;dr

Offline AsianP

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #350 on: September 15, 2016, 10:33:09 pm »
Well written Antonio
I bet you didn't even read it hahahah xD
I read it don't really get the point his mostly rambling around, could have made it much shorter.
Actually I did take the time to read the entire thing
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AntonioTheWorstAtMelee

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #351 on: September 16, 2016, 12:21:48 am »
Well written Antonio
I bet you didn't even read it hahahah xD
I read it don't really get the point his mostly rambling around, could have made it much shorter.

I get what he is saying and I completely agree. I have tried to make similar points earlier in this thread.

Though, he truly did write an essay, he had an intro paragraph introducing himself and all.

As I said, I wrote that for no one's convenience and it's only meant for those who would put the effort into this discussion. It's everything these 24 pages have been about, and if you've been here to troll or to spectate apathetically, they don't matter to you.

In the post I mentioned my thoughts on a Community server v. 63e Server being more than NW can handle. Eventually I noticed the new server that posted up in the forum 3 days ago (still a WIP). Even if the server begins to challenge the 63e, we will all be left with less than full servers that offer no fun to anybody and may just push people away. And with the greater theme of my post, nothing will be improved in the community. I hope Karth comes on here and takes the time to read this post. If he doesn't, or sends a lackey that has already demonstrated the character of his administration within this post, we should all just move on.

If that is the case, I hope the NA Community can come together in some fashion to build this server up. And while we are it, why not talk about other issues we have with each other, the game, and other regiments.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 12:23:43 am by AntonioTheWorstAtMelee »

Offline Xethos

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #352 on: September 16, 2016, 12:26:49 am »
Pro tip: Don't write long essays. People on FSE don't read them. Instead post a meme

The whole damn point was that if people quit vomiting memes all the time, somebody would eventually be able to broker solutions.
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04:25:13 - [Cup_of_Tea] Hey Xethos! I bet you're a gentleman of less than reputable quality!

Offline BabyJesus

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #353 on: September 16, 2016, 12:29:35 am »
Pro tip: Don't write long essays. People on FSE don't read them. Instead post a meme

The whole damn point was that if people quit vomiting memes all the time, somebody would eventually be able to broker solutions.
you can explain a point without writing a full essay.

btw antonio wanna write my english essay for me?
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AntonioTheWorstAtMelee

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #354 on: September 16, 2016, 12:33:45 am »
Pro tip: Don't write long essays. People on FSE don't read them. Instead post a meme

The whole damn point was that if people quit vomiting memes all the time, somebody would eventually be able to broker solutions.

I guess if you consider my post as not vomiting memes, then yes please make more posts like mine. It is kind of ridiculous at how ineffective this community has been at coming up with solutions. I feel that the egos of certain community members has blocked any kind of group work that is normal to most people here (when they are on the outside and people don't see Col. or Gen. tags in front of their names).

EDIT for BabyJesus' Post:

I can explain a point without writing a full essay. This begs a question, why do we have essays then anyway? If you honestly ask yourself this question, then may I please refer you to the hundreds of years of academics that has churned out thousands upon thousands of essays. Read the essay- even effective skimming (a literary skill) can get you the answer.

Also, I don't need to write for English anymore. Only interesting stuff from now on ;)

Offline AP0CALYPS3

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #355 on: September 16, 2016, 10:41:43 am »
Since technically my job is supposed to center around the forums, gonna keep some other threads coming.

Here is my most recent creation:

North American NW News!:

https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=33413.0

Offline Riddlez

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #356 on: September 16, 2016, 04:01:03 pm »
So I came back yesterday from a field exercise and thought to check if anyone has posted here. A spectacular 24 pages mostly about the 63e. I  will dig into the matter this weekend and hope to put it to rest this weekend as well. The matter seems suprisingly simple.

I will keep you posted. I will PM, steam-pm and get on TS of the parties involved. Expect me.
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #357 on: September 16, 2016, 04:26:37 pm »
After the 63e tortured riddlez for a week straight, they decided it was time to let him go
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Offline McPero

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #358 on: September 16, 2016, 08:00:52 pm »
So I came back yesterday from a field exercise and thought to check if anyone has posted here. A spectacular 24 pages mostly about the 63e. I  will dig into the matter this weekend and hope to put it to rest this weekend as well. The matter seems suprisingly simple.

I will keep you posted. I will PM, steam-pm and get on TS of the parties involved. Expect me.
name me regent

Offline Riddlez

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Re: Community Rep Thread (September-October)
« Reply #359 on: September 17, 2016, 01:23:23 pm »
Now that was an interesting read.

And a suprisingly stupid conversation. Really people, you guys need to grow up. All of you. I commend Ap0c for his tries to lead this into a meaningful discussion but you guys absolutely ruined it.

To the 'anti-63e' camp:
Grow up. Yes there are some factors that, granted, are a little bit shady if you want to make the community a better one, which makes me understand why the 63e isa disliked, but really. You can just sit down with some members of the 63e in their teamspeak or your own, to discuss things and let your grievances be heard. It would be wise for the 63e to listen to them and even work on some of them, because fi you would've gone about this maturely, and the 63e would only shitpost and ban people, you could maturely make a statement about what happened, which could then ruin the 63e's credibility.

to the 63e members
Grow up. It is mildly amusing how you claim to be open toi 'mature conversation' in teamspeak, while most of you just shitpost and complain about the people who don't like you. Perhaps it is time for some self-reflection. You do not help your own position by having your members behave like this on the forums. PLease work on it.


I can be found on the 63e teamspeak server this afternoon and evening, and I will be speaking to 63e members as much as I can.


UPDATE:

I have spoken to one of the 63e admins. I will publish the results of this conversation later, but allow me to make one thing very clear:
The 63e is not intentionally trying to harm the community. It is not their intent to steal new recruits, steal people from events or badly influence smaller regiments.
They do not want this fight. Neither do I and the rest of the community. Steps have been taken to move forward, and I expect results to be noticable iun a matter of days.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 02:39:33 pm by Riddlez »
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.