Author Topic: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play  (Read 32593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Willhelm

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 1850
    • View Profile
    • Blood&Iron
  • Nick: 32nd_Gdm_William
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2014, 04:00:00 pm »
I disagree, i dont think the melee crowd should be pandered to, it should be an American civil war game. Also with higher accuracy people just learn to stand further apart, plus the maps will be bigger.

In NaS people skirmish because they think they should skirmish, and they form lines in NW because they think they should. The NaS guns aren't even more accurate than light infantry in NW.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2014, 01:34:27 am »
I think we will see a lot of Columns-moving-to-ragged-line. Regiments will still stick together when moving around, but as soon as the firing start, they'll adopt a more combat-effective formation.

I do wonder what the role of the cavalry will be in all this. I fear they will be nothing more then an infantryman on a car-like object.

Offline Tavington

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1036
  • 32nd Regiment
    • View Profile
    • 32nd Regiment
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2014, 01:56:32 am »
Camping shouldn't be an issue too much. There will be plenty artillery in battles to dislodge defenders with explosive rounds. Blood and Iron for example, the krupp is very effective in forcing your regiment to have to constantly relocate and advance so with this incorporated into BCoF i am sure there's little concern.

Offline kpetschulat

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 4752
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Petschie
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2014, 02:04:35 am »
I think we will see a lot of Columns-moving-to-ragged-line. Regiments will still stick together when moving around, but as soon as the firing start, they'll adopt a more combat-effective formation.

I do wonder what the role of the cavalry will be in all this. I fear they will be nothing more then an infantryman on a car-like object.

Most cavalry regiments weren't really cavalry, but mounted infantry, and performed as such. It would be a company strength of guys armed with spencer and sharps', or whatever else, would ride into a battle, halt at a nice defensive spot, and skirmish and harass the enemy. They'd remount and get out if the enemy got too close for comfort. So, I could expect to see very similar tactics used in the game.

Offline Wismar

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 3838
  • Med Gud o' Sveas allmoge för Konung och Fosterland
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Radical
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2014, 03:08:34 am »
I think we will see a lot of Columns-moving-to-ragged-line. Regiments will still stick together when moving around, but as soon as the firing start, they'll adopt a more combat-effective formation.

I do wonder what the role of the cavalry will be in all this. I fear they will be nothing more then an infantryman on a car-like object.

Most cavalry regiments weren't really cavalry, but mounted infantry, and performed as such. It would be a company strength of guys armed with spencer and sharps', or whatever else, would ride into a battle, halt at a nice defensive spot, and skirmish and harass the enemy. They'd remount and get out if the enemy got too close for comfort. So, I could expect to see very similar tactics used in the game.
I guess but a lot of the southern cavalry was armed with revolvers. So close combat would be their thing.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2014, 03:02:31 pm »
Lots of southern infantry- and cavarlymen alike carried revolvers in the early stages of the war. They got rid of them soon enough, because close combat didn't happen as much with the infantry as expected, and with the cavalry it was pretty non-existent. Entire regiments of (southern) cavalry didn't even have sabres.

Offline Wismar

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 3838
  • Med Gud o' Sveas allmoge för Konung och Fosterland
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Radical
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2014, 03:17:21 pm »
Lots of southern infantry- and cavarlymen alike carried revolvers in the early stages of the war. They got rid of them soon enough, because close combat didn't happen as much with the infantry as expected, and with the cavalry it was pretty non-existent. Entire regiments of (southern) cavalry didn't even have sabres.
Why is that? What it because they were poorly trained? There were several charges during the Franco-Prussian war and by that time they had breechloader rifles.

Offline TheBoberton

  • Knight of Blueberry
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 994
  • I don't want no pardon for anything I done
    • View Profile
    • Thomas' Steam Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2014, 03:59:20 pm »
Cavalry doesn't work like that in America. Because trees. Lots and lots of trees.

Offline Wismar

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 3838
  • Med Gud o' Sveas allmoge för Konung och Fosterland
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Radical
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2014, 05:56:44 pm »
Cavalry doesn't work like that in America. Because trees. Lots and lots of trees.
to my understanding the majority of the battles were fought in open ground.

Offline TheBoberton

  • Knight of Blueberry
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 994
  • I don't want no pardon for anything I done
    • View Profile
    • Thomas' Steam Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2014, 07:15:09 pm »
Sorta..
Manassas Battlefield, looking from Matthews Hill to Henry House Hill
[close]
Gettysburg Battlefield, Overlooking the field across which Pickett's Charge was made
[close]
Paul Philippoteaux's Gettysburg Cyclorama of Pickett's Charge; 1883   Warning; Very large image
[close]
Shiloh's Duncan Field
[close]

It.. was open ground, but not fit country for cavalry charges akin to those that took place in Europe. Granted, some of what is seen in the photos has likely grown since the battles took place, but it would have still been a hindrance to any commander contemplating sending regiments or brigades of mounted troops through them.



Besides, battles aren't the only thing that had to be taken into consideration. Moving and maintaining the number of horses necessary for the many regiment necessary for charging the enemy would put a strain on a still under-developed logistics chain. And the South simply didn't have the horses to spare for such foolish endeavors.

All in all, it simply wasn't worth it, when the advantages offered were weighed against the disadvantages. Especially when one considers how the previous decade had gone for cavalry in general. (The Battle of Balaclava pretty much showed how outdated outright charges had become.)

Offline kpetschulat

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 4752
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Petschie
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2014, 07:57:13 pm »
Lee had 6,000 cavalry not present at Gettysburg. I can't imagine trying to manage and organize that many cavalry on such a small field.

Offline Willhelm

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 1850
    • View Profile
    • Blood&Iron
  • Nick: 32nd_Gdm_William
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2014, 08:14:48 pm »
Lots of southern infantry- and cavarlymen alike carried revolvers in the early stages of the war. They got rid of them soon enough, because close combat didn't happen as much with the infantry as expected, and with the cavalry it was pretty non-existent. Entire regiments of (southern) cavalry didn't even have sabres.
Why is that? What it because they were poorly trained? There were several charges during the Franco-Prussian war and by that time they had breechloader rifles.

That was mainly the result of an insistence that cavalry was still usefull as a melee force, and although some charges could be called a success the losses we far too high, a successful cavalry charge doesn't lose 70% of its troops even if they do take their objective. In many ways the US was quicker to see the changes in war, then again in some ways they were also backwards.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2014, 07:39:56 am »
Try miserable discipline. Both the Federal and Confederate armies were largely untrained formations and discipline ran low. Men simply refused to bayonetcharge or charge with the sabre because they found it too dangerous. Let's not forget that pretty much none of the enlisted men and only a handful of officers had seen combat prior to the War.

Pretty much, they didn't understand the European way of warfare and thus developed their own.

Offline regwilliam

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 1040
  • add regwilliam to join 1stNJ
    • View Profile
  • Nick: William
  • Side: Union
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2014, 11:06:03 am »
American and European styles of fighting were largely the same. Move giant lines of men within 100 yards of the enemy and just start firing till one side ran away have cav flank the enemy when ever it could and have arty fire cannon balls into the enemy lines till entire gaps were made by them. I read a quote from some book that had this to say about the civil war. " The American civil wars was a combination of old tactics with new technology the results were devastating.


Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: A concern on Rifle accuracy changing game play
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2014, 11:36:20 am »
No, they weren't. Americans tried to imitate the European way of warfare but they failed. Look at the differences between the British in the Crimea and the Americans in 1861. They just didn't achieve the same level.

Cavarly and infantry barely meddled with eachother apart from dismounted fighting, which is a world of difference with the (succesful) charges at the Crimea.

I'm not saying Europeans were superior in fighting skills, but they were in the European way of fighting, which the Americans TRIED to adopt, failed, and then went on to develop their own style. European envoys to the war often pointed out the differences between the two ways of fighting and the results.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 11:38:43 am by Duuring »