Author Topic: NWWC 2022 | Overview  (Read 35295 times)

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Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #585 on: April 14, 2022, 10:25:04 pm »

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #586 on: April 14, 2022, 10:30:01 pm »

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final
Is England as strong as previous years? Simple answer no. But no team other than GER is as strong as previous years really. I only asked about the brackets as I was surprised England and France was on the same side. If this had happened in the previous years I'm sure any other captain would've asked the same question

Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #587 on: April 14, 2022, 10:34:33 pm »

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final
Is England as strong as previous years? Simple answer no. But no team other than GER is as strong as previous years really. I only asked about the brackets as I was surprised England and France was on the same side. If this had happened in the previous years I'm sure any other captain would've asked the same question
Yes, but that is because ENG and FRA have been clear finalists (As I think Herishey said earlier). This year not so much. So it doesn't HAVE to be ENG vs FRA final. And imo it shouldn't be if there aren't a clear 2 finalist teams.

BlitzkriegMBNW

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #588 on: April 14, 2022, 10:37:20 pm »

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final
Is England as strong as previous years? Simple answer no. But no team other than GER is as strong as previous years really. I only asked about the brackets as I was surprised England and France was on the same side. If this had happened in the previous years I'm sure any other captain would've asked the same question
Yes, but that is because ENG and FRA have been clear finalists (As I think Herishey said earlier). This year not so much. So it doesn't HAVE to be ENG vs FRA final. And imo it shouldn't be if there aren't a clear 2 finalist teams.
Same reason the organisers gave me and I accepted this and moved on

Offline Gibby Jr

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #589 on: April 14, 2022, 10:43:42 pm »
Spoiler

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final
Is England as strong as previous years? Simple answer no. But no team other than GER is as strong as previous years really. I only asked about the brackets as I was surprised England and France was on the same side. If this had happened in the previous years I'm sure any other captain would've asked the same question
[close]
Yes, but that is because ENG and FRA have been clear finalists (As I think Herishey said earlier). This year not so much. So it doesn't HAVE to be ENG vs FRA final. And imo it shouldn't be if there aren't a clear 2 finalist teams.

Not that there's anything wrong with seeding the teams based on the strengths the admins think they have, as they did at the start of this tournament, but I think it's sounder to do it on the basis of a nation's placements in the previous tournament. However, I think that should have been done much earlier in the tournament - either before it began or in the first week or two - not after the groups were completed. The question we raised with the admins weeks ago was never about giving England the easiest route, only asking why ENG and FRA were on the same side of the bracket. We never had an issue facing GER, who many here have said they think are the strongest team, in the semis. As others have echoed though, it is rather late into the tournament to be suggesting such a change and only with the consent of a majority of captains is it reasonable to do so.
you are as weak as whales by acting like that.

Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #590 on: April 14, 2022, 10:51:57 pm »
Spoiler

Its NWWC, the only tourney with any credibility left,  whoever wins wins. I asked Blitz not to make a fuss of the brackets but here we are.

We had a discussion about this 4 weeks ago and you asked me to inquire at the time, shortly afterwards you told me not to bother anymore and I haven't since.
4 weeks ago? why is it coming up now then?
No idea, ask the organisers LMAO. When we spoke about it they said they had no plans on changing it. Why they have decided to do it now is beyond me

My question is do you think that ENG is as strong as previous years that GER won't pose much of a threat? If not, then why talk about the brackets unless you wanted an easier route to the final
Is England as strong as previous years? Simple answer no. But no team other than GER is as strong as previous years really. I only asked about the brackets as I was surprised England and France was on the same side. If this had happened in the previous years I'm sure any other captain would've asked the same question
[close]
Yes, but that is because ENG and FRA have been clear finalists (As I think Herishey said earlier). This year not so much. So it doesn't HAVE to be ENG vs FRA final. And imo it shouldn't be if there aren't a clear 2 finalist teams.

Not that there's anything wrong with seeding the teams based on the strengths the admins think they have, as they did at the start of this tournament, but I think it's sounder to do it on the basis of a nation's placements in the previous tournament. However, I think that should have been done much earlier in the tournament - either before it began or in the first week or two - not after the groups were completed. The question we raised with the admins weeks ago was never about giving England the easiest route, only asking why ENG and FRA were on the same side of the bracket. We never had an issue facing GER, who many here have said they think are the strongest team, in the semis. As others have echoed though, it is rather late into the tournament to be suggesting such a change and only with the consent of a majority of captains is it reasonable to do so.

So you think that an ENG team with 4 members who played in last years final, should be seeded as the favourite team along with FRA (who have a lot more members from previous years). That makes no sense to me, At the end of the day, previous years shouldn't come into it. And as you've said yourself, 'many' say GER is the strongest team, so they should be on one side of the bracket, and the other 2 competing teams be on the other.
The way you've explained how the teams are this year, is that there's 1 clear finalist (GER) and then 2 other teams competing to go into the final (FRA & ENG) right? so why would you put one of them against the strongest team in the semi finals. When they should fight each other to see who will go against the 'favourite'

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #591 on: April 14, 2022, 10:52:44 pm »
Hertz you're trolling man
Stop looking at my posts Fietta #RentFree

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Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #592 on: April 14, 2022, 10:54:50 pm »
Hertz you're trolling man
I started off trolling yeah, but the way they've explained it. Make them seem really stupid to me.

Offline Gibby Jr

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #593 on: April 14, 2022, 11:02:21 pm »
The way you've explained how the teams are this year, is that there's 1 clear finalist (GER) and then 2 other teams competing to go into the final (FRA & ENG) right? so why would you put one of them against the strongest team in the semi finals. When they should fight each other to see who will go against the 'favourite'

No, I said no such thing and do not think that is true.

So you think that an ENG team with 4 members who played in last years final, should be seeded as the favourite team along with FRA (who have a lot more members from previous years). That makes no sense to me, At the end of the day, previous years shouldn't come into it.

It's a national tournament, the only sort of tournament where previous years are actually relevant. Yes, I think the two finalists from the previous year should be the top 2 seeds.
you are as weak as whales by acting like that.

Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #594 on: April 14, 2022, 11:09:07 pm »
The way you've explained how the teams are this year, is that there's 1 clear finalist (GER) and then 2 other teams competing to go into the final (FRA & ENG) right? so why would you put one of them against the strongest team in the semi finals. When they should fight each other to see who will go against the 'favourite'

No, I said no such thing and do not think that is true.

So you think that an ENG team with 4 members who played in last years final, should be seeded as the favourite team along with FRA (who have a lot more members from previous years). That makes no sense to me, At the end of the day, previous years shouldn't come into it.

It's a national tournament, the only sort of tournament where previous years are actually relevant. Yes, I think the two finalists from the previous year should be the top 2 seeds.

Yes it is a national tournament, but as I said, 60% of your team wasn't in the NWWC final last year. And correct me if I'm wrong, 40% of your team has never played in an NWWC final at all. Therefore I don't think you can judge the teams by the same standing as previous years. As if you look at the previous ENG teams, it's pretty much the same since 2016/17. Same with the FRA team really. A few changes here and there. But not half (or over) the team.

Okay maybe not a 'Clear' front runner, but

We never had an issue facing GER, who many here have said they think are the strongest team, in the semis.
the use of 'many' would lead me to believe the majority of people competing in NWWC think the same. In which case my point still stands. GER should be on 1 side of the brackets, and ENG vs FRA the other.

Offline Gibby Jr

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #595 on: April 14, 2022, 11:23:38 pm »
Yes it is a national tournament, but as I said, 60% of your team wasn't in the NWWC final last year. And correct me if I'm wrong, 40% of your team has never played in an NWWC final at all. Therefore I don't think you can judge the teams by the same standing as previous years. As if you look at the previous ENG teams, it's pretty much the same since 2016/17. Same with the FRA team really. A few changes here and there. But not half (or over) the team.

Okay maybe not a 'Clear' front runner, but

We never had an issue facing GER, who many here have said they think are the strongest team, in the semis.
the use of 'many' would lead me to believe the majority of people competing in NWWC think the same. In which case my point still stands. GER should be on 1 side of the brackets, and ENG vs FRA the other.

This is not a particularly relevant point for you to be hung up on in the context of what the admins have decided to do, but I will clarify once more.

Yes it is a national tournament, but as I said, 60% of your team wasn't in the NWWC final last year. And correct me if I'm wrong, 40% of your team has never played in an NWWC final at all. Therefore I don't think you can judge the teams by the same standing as previous years. As if you look at the previous ENG teams, it's pretty much the same since 2016/17. Same with the FRA team really. A few changes here and there. But not half (or over) the team.

It's about 50-50 in terms of the starting players this year for who has started in an NWWC finals in the past. How relevant that is in determining whether a national team should be afforded the same consideration for seeding as in the previous year (based on their finals placement) is a matter of opinion and not one where anyone can be 'right'. In a team competition, as I said in response to Melsyo, I think that point makes a lot of sense and I'd agree with you. In the context of a national tournament, where there is a constant factor (the nations do not change and the best players from that nation that are willing to play are playing), I don't find that logic as convincing. I think the seeding should be appropriate to each team's performance in the previous edition.

We never had an issue facing GER, who many here have said they think are the strongest team, in the semis.
the use of 'many' would lead me to believe the majority of people competing in NWWC think the same. In which case my point still stands. GER should be on 1 side of the brackets, and ENG vs FRA the other.

I said 'many here' referring to the arguments people were making on the forums, not to any consensus among NWWC captains or participants. I have little knowledge of what people think more broadly but you'd probably find most people consider ENG, FRA and GER to all be roughly equal. It is unfortunate to be in a format where one side of the bracket is going to be weighted unfavourably, no matter what decision is taken on this issue, as two of the three favourites will have to face each other prior to the finals. Really, this is an issue which should have been given more thought prior to the start of the tournament and not at the end of the group stages.
you are as weak as whales by acting like that.

Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #596 on: April 14, 2022, 11:34:28 pm »
It's about 50-50 in terms of the starting players this year for who has started in an NWWC finals in the past. How relevant that is in determining whether a national team should be afforded the same consideration for seeding as in the previous year (based on their finals placement) is a matter of opinion and not one where anyone can be 'right'. In a team competition, as I said in response to Melsyo, I think that point makes a lot of sense and I'd agree with you. In the context of a national tournament, where there is a constant factor (the nations do not change and the best players from that nation that are willing to play are playing), I don't find that logic as convincing. I think the seeding should be appropriate to each team's performance in the previous edition.

Going back to my point earlier, 60% of your team didn't play in the final for last NWWC, so you're saying your seeding should be relevant to 6 other players who performed last year and aren't playing this year. That makes no sense.
And you saying that it's a national tournament shouldn't make seeding any different. If there were 2 favourite teams (like other years) they would be on different sides of the brackets. However, there seems to be 1 stronger team (or 3 equal teams, whichever way you want to spin it). Previous NWWCs should come into how seeding is done. It should be done on how teams performed in Groups.
Also I doubt ENG would have kicked up as fuss if it was GER vs FRA in the semi's. And I highly doubt FRA would too. (but this might be because of an ENG vs FRA final).

I honestly don't see why the brackets are up for debate. And by the sounds of it, it was made by a 2ic that was going against what he was told to do.

But saying previous years NWWC results should be taken into account when seeding the knockouts is stupid, when you even said yourself that half the team (starting lineup) is different.

Play the tournament how it was originally set, if ENG lose, it's not because you had a harder seed. It's because you weren't good enough. If you carry on trying to get an ENG vs FRA final, it's just gonna seem like you're trying to grab yourself a guaranteed silver. Which would be extremely sad.

Offline Bagins

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #597 on: April 14, 2022, 11:52:11 pm »
Imagine Eng players have been sat here continuing their own argument :feelsbadman:

Offline MarxeiL

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #598 on: April 14, 2022, 11:53:04 pm »
swap wont happen cause votes are even, so don't bother anymore @Gibby
| 1x 10v10 Winner | 2x 9v9 Winner | 2x 8v8 Winner | 1x 7v7 Winner | 1x 6v6 Winner | 2x 5v5 Winner | 1x 4v4 Winner | 1x 3v3 Winner |
| 1x TDT Winner | 1x NWL (2nd L) Winner | 1x NWL (1st L) Winner | 1x RGT Winner | 2x RGL Winner |
| 1x TDT Runner-up | 1x 8v8 Runner-up | 1x 7v7 Runner-up | 1x NWFL Runner-up | 1x EIC Runner-up | 1x 2v2 Runner-up |


Offline Hertz

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Re: NWWC 2022 | Overview
« Reply #599 on: April 14, 2022, 11:53:28 pm »
Imagine Eng players have been sat here continuing their own argument :feelsbadman:
I'm not a player you numpty. Just trying to understand why your 2ic went behind you back, and also is trying to cheese a free silver.