Flying Squirrel Entertainment

The Lounge => Off Topic => Forum Games => Topic started by: Cazasar on December 25, 2017, 09:59:26 pm

Title: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 25, 2017, 09:59:26 pm
RSV

Hype?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Duuring on December 25, 2017, 10:34:19 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/60wltgN3qes/maxresdefault.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on December 26, 2017, 01:30:12 am
I want one but I don’t think there will be enough people . All the usual ones are dead :(
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on December 26, 2017, 01:43:04 am
there's at least 5 people including you if i remember correctly so far
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on December 26, 2017, 04:18:37 am
sure
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 26, 2017, 09:41:59 am
Spoiler
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/60wltgN3qes/maxresdefault.jpg)
[close]
Ill Mark that down as "oh fuck yes"
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: |Viper| on December 26, 2017, 05:25:12 pm
sure
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Duuring on December 26, 2017, 08:47:11 pm
I'm always willing if it's a period I find interesting. If I can give 2 pieces of advice

1. keep it simple
2. Keep it small
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 27, 2017, 12:21:49 am
I'm always willing if it's a period I find interesting. If I can give 2 pieces of advice

1. keep it simple
2. Keep it small
that was the intention. Problem with my game: everything was made up by me
Problem with volks game: there was a rule for everything

We will try and do an inbetween. Gotta geht home to my PC first tho :D
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Duuring on December 27, 2017, 10:43:20 am
I think the problem is that at some point players are going to think of new concepts. That should be limited, if not completely banned.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Tardet on December 27, 2017, 10:53:29 am
What does BoP actually stands for?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 27, 2017, 11:15:16 am
I think the problem is that at some point players are going to think of new concepts. That should be limited, if not completely banned.
after all its DnD with countries. We can handle it like GMs do in Pen and Paper

What does BoP actually stands for?
Balance of Power. Would be very happy of you played with us :) Look at some of the other threads in this Board if you are wondering what it is.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Rommel on December 27, 2017, 01:52:02 pm
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/27/Another_one.png/revision/latest?cb=20160404182312)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: bobertini on December 27, 2017, 01:53:20 pm
r u sure u have enough time caz?

Have you checked your diary, and looked into the future by about a month!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh??
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Duuring on December 27, 2017, 04:01:31 pm
r u sure u have enough time caz?

Have you checked your diary, and looked into the future by about a month!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh??
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Raddeo on December 27, 2017, 05:06:17 pm
What's the sense of creating a topic, saying absolutelly nothing about the game itself and expecting people to be "hyped"? Seems like one of infamous "superior placeholder" topics that once appeared all over this board.

With that being said, I may be interested in playing depending on period and mechanics of the game.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Rommel on December 27, 2017, 05:06:55 pm
Yeah Caz, what will you say about that?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 27, 2017, 05:34:40 pm
Yeah Caz, what will you say about that?
Lösch dich.

And yes, I have enough time. A few Tests are coming up, but that shouldnt be an issue.

What's the sense of creating a topic, saying absolutelly nothing about the game itself and expecting people to be "hyped"? Seems like one of infamous "superior placeholder" topics that once appeared all over this board.

With that being said, I may be interested in playing depending on period and mechanics of the game.
It was to determine if people would actually be interested in it. No sense in working out rules Ehen there is 1 Person playing.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on December 28, 2017, 12:30:42 am
There’s more people than I thought there would be :o

Lit
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Tardet on December 28, 2017, 07:52:45 am
I'd be up for it if you don't need an excelent level of english to understand player's interaction. Just gonna need someone to explain me the basics so I'm not a dead weight. I've read a few topics about it, I understand the main idea yet there are problably a thousand things it will be hard for me to ackwoledge at the begining. Just let me know if you need an extra Caz ;)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 28, 2017, 08:56:46 am
There’s more people than I thought there would be :o

Lit
I thought the same. I will come home on 8.1.18, so rules and other juicy stuff prob have to wait until then.

I'd be up for it if you don't need an excelent level of english to understand player's interaction. Just gonna need someone to explain me the basics so I'm not a dead weight. I've read a few topics about it, I understand the main idea yet there are problably a thousand things it will be hard for me to ackwoledge at the begining. Just let me know if you need an extra Caz ;)
We always do! Everything you need for playing is to enjoy RPing, be able to write long Essays and an interest in History. You Wege born  for this :D
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Tardet on December 28, 2017, 09:04:44 am
Fair enough mate, might give a try then, will see if I have time for it!
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on December 28, 2017, 06:20:53 pm
Give us the time period already
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 28, 2017, 08:50:35 pm
Victorian
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on December 28, 2017, 09:01:11 pm
Damn. I was interested, just not committed. Victorian is a weird era imo, I don't like world campaigns, just Europe-sized campaigns. And no, "Europe is in this, too!" doesn't cut it, late period games are just about fighting for colonies and making backstabs in Europe, I find that really boring. If it was medieval, when Europe looked like shattered glass, then hell yes.

Guns and cannons and resources need to be basic and scarce for things to be interesting, imo.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Furrnox on December 28, 2017, 09:03:54 pm
Prussia mine pls.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Raddeo on December 28, 2017, 09:29:03 pm
My hype is over then, I'm out, sorry. Victorian Era is totally not my period.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on December 28, 2017, 09:30:50 pm
Damn. I was interested, just not committed. Victorian is a weird era imo, I don't like world campaigns, just Europe-sized campaigns. And no, "Europe is in this, too!" doesn't cut it, late period games are just about fighting for colonies and making backstabs in Europe, I find that really boring. If it was medieval, when Europe looked like shattered glass, then hell yes.

Guns and cannons and resources need to be basic and scarce for things to be interesting, imo.
Germany and Italy are shattered glass and almost Austria-Hungary but uhhhhh

yeah
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on December 28, 2017, 09:35:23 pm
Damn. I was interested, just not committed. Victorian is a weird era imo, I don't like world campaigns, just Europe-sized campaigns. And no, "Europe is in this, too!" doesn't cut it, late period games are just about fighting for colonies and making backstabs in Europe, I find that really boring. If it was medieval, when Europe looked like shattered glass, then hell yes.

Guns and cannons and resources need to be basic and scarce for things to be interesting, imo.
Germany and Italy are shattered glass and almost Austria-Hungary but uhhhhh

yeah
Plus it's the time of revolutions in a lot of countries' histories so it could become even more shattered glass
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Knightmare on December 28, 2017, 09:41:41 pm
Victorian
im in

tech me plz
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 28, 2017, 09:56:36 pm
Victorian
im in

tech me plz
read some oft the other BoP threads. PM me for questions.

Its to be expected that a few people dislike a certain Periode. I understand your reasoning, but rather so something New that im interested in instead of trying to appeal to people


Btw sry for these horrible posts my phone has german  autocorrect
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on December 28, 2017, 10:28:33 pm
Damn. I was interested, just not committed. Victorian is a weird era imo, I don't like world campaigns, just Europe-sized campaigns. And no, "Europe is in this, too!" doesn't cut it, late period games are just about fighting for colonies and making backstabs in Europe, I find that really boring. If it was medieval, when Europe looked like shattered glass, then hell yes.

Guns and cannons and resources need to be basic and scarce for things to be interesting, imo.
Germany and Italy are shattered glass and almost Austria-Hungary but uhhhhh

yeah
Plus it's the time of revolutions in a lot of countries' histories so it could become even more shattered glass

GB is whole, Spain is whole, Austria and Russia are empires that swallowed up all these small regional ethnicities. Italy is basically 4 countries, and Germany is basically 5 (7 including the Netherlands and Belgium, which are long since independent from HRE). Inb4 "nuh uh," yes, Italy is basically three countries: Sardinia, Tuscany, the Papal States, and Sicily, and Germany is essentially just Prussia, Bavaria, Hanover, Hesse, and Mecklenburg. Every other minor ass country gets swallowed up 2 days into the game, and that's why it's not shattered glass.

Compare Germany and Italy in 1500 to Germany and Italy in 1850. Ignore HRE.

No, Volk, I doubt a BoP where simplicity is a core backbone will allow for revolutions that splinter nations. The fuck?

rather so something New that im interested in instead of trying to appeal to people

Doing something you want to do > doing something others want to do

Huh.

Medieval may not be the consensus of the people in this thread currently, but months ago when that big poll of all the different themes was up, medieval was either the top or second top voted by a large margin. It's a good time period because big changes weren't usually devised by a hand full of people, that's why the Napoleonic era is a shitty timeframe for a BoP--France just wins as long as the player is competent, or players play proactively and straight up unfairly target France from the start, and GB or Russia will swoop in to save the day at some point. That's why I prefer the medieval period, you can be as creative and ruthless and ambitious and practical as you want.

Either way, I think it's worth introducing wincons to BoPs regardless of the time period. Games sort of just end because all players feel like they can do is fight wars, and that's all there really is. But there's no evaluation at any point of how well a player/nation is actually doing at any given time. There's no system of points to value how much land someone controls, how valuable that land is, how protected those lands are, how efficient their military is at preventing threats from happening and eliminating them when they do, etc. Civilization for instance was definitely a game where you had to fight battles, but towards the end of the game there were WAY more ways to win than just fight everyone. Something to seriously consider, imo.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 28, 2017, 10:45:32 pm
Wincons actually are a great Idea :) thanks for the input

Sry I would like to respond more but really cant be bothered due to phone.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on December 28, 2017, 10:56:17 pm
I’m not a huge fan of the Victorian era but of course I’ll still play
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on December 28, 2017, 10:58:00 pm
I’m not a huge fan of the Victorian era but of course I’ll still play
Plus genocide
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2017, 11:12:53 pm
Victorian era? What's there to do except fighting natives armed with fruit and watching France and Germany throw insults at eachother?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on December 29, 2017, 01:21:58 am
Victorian era? What's there to do except fighting natives armed with fruit and watching France and Germany throw insults at eachother?

(https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/facebook/65/clapping-hands-sign_1f44f.png)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Liam on December 29, 2017, 09:56:26 pm
Victorian era? What's there to do except fighting natives armed with fruit and watching France and Germany throw insults at eachother?

Tbf that sounds like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on December 29, 2017, 09:58:19 pm
Victorian era? What's there to do except fighting natives armed with fruit and watching France and Germany throw insults at eachother?

Tbf that sounds like a lot of fun.
Plus you gotta spend the whole game trying to maintain that lovely status quo. That's why it's called Balance of Power no?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on December 30, 2017, 05:05:11 am
So any word on when we will get mroe info on this?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on December 30, 2017, 05:41:41 am
So any word on when we will get mroe info on this?
Caz said when he gets back from visiting family for holiday, idk about european vacation but i know some of my uni friends come back next monday or something like that. My guess is during or after this weekend?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on December 30, 2017, 11:05:19 am
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: bobertini on January 03, 2018, 11:14:48 am
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January

I shall translate. I didn't realise the errors of my ways, and have no time to spare in this current state of the world. I may or may not be back for several months as I trek across the mountains of tawoogoo in search of the lost banana.

I.e. cya in 7 months.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 03, 2018, 01:47:32 pm
I love you Bob.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 03, 2018, 02:14:20 pm
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January

I shall translate. I didn't realise the errors of my ways, and have no time to spare in this current state of the world. I may or may not be back for several months as I trek across the mountains of tawoogoo in search of the lost banana.

I.e. cya in 7 months.
chuckled irl gj
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 03, 2018, 09:02:11 pm
same 👏
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on January 03, 2018, 09:41:59 pm
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January

I shall translate. I didn't realise the errors of my ways, and have no time to spare in this current state of the world. I may or may not be back for several months as I trek across the mountains of tawoogoo in search of the lost banana.

I.e. cya in 7 months.
chuckled irl gj
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Gamboji on January 05, 2018, 01:26:45 am
I'll play some boop.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Rommel on January 05, 2018, 10:35:35 am
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January
Smite?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Pierre71 on January 05, 2018, 04:30:31 pm
I'd like to play
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 07, 2018, 09:44:43 pm
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January
did you mean January of 2019?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 07, 2018, 10:11:33 pm
I'll be back home on  the 7th of January
did you mean January of 2019?
Im home again. Im currently working on Game Mechanics with Volk :)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 10, 2018, 02:04:49 am
Hey.

Volk and me decided that the big countries should be selected first. If you want one of em, Pm me with a small application :)

The big players are: UK, Prussia, Russia, France, Austria.

Code
[b]Name[/b]
[b]Country[/b]
[b]Why I should play this country[/b]
[b]My plans with the country[/b]

A Thread is coming in the next days stay tuned :)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 13, 2018, 04:42:01 am
so what people wanted to be a great power?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 13, 2018, 08:29:46 am
everyone wanted to play montenegro it was really weird :o
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 13, 2018, 09:07:44 am
everyone wanted to play montenegro it was really weird :o
i bet Luxembourg was pretty popular as well
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Phoen!x on January 13, 2018, 02:11:19 pm
everyone wanted to play montenegro it was really weird :o
i bet Luxembourg was pretty popular as well

Oh how right you are
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Liam on January 13, 2018, 04:11:21 pm
o
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 13, 2018, 09:00:44 pm
Kosovo je Srbija time >:)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 13, 2018, 10:31:59 pm
My fucking Monitor cable broke. Gonna get a New one on monday. I got exactly 1 PM for a great country, so I guess interest isnt that high anyway
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 13, 2018, 10:41:06 pm
Monitor cable broke

dont hear that one too often
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 13, 2018, 11:56:09 pm
My fucking Monitor cable broke. Gonna get a New one on monday. I got exactly 1 PM for a great country, so I guess interest isnt that high anyway
so I’m the only one who sent in a nation thing :o
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 14, 2018, 12:15:38 am
Monitor cable broke

dont hear that one too often
give me your snapchat via PM and will proof it. I know it sounds like im making it up, fuck I wish I would.

My fucking Monitor cable broke. Gonna get a New one on monday. I got exactly 1 PM for a great country, so I guess interest isnt that high anyway
so I’m the only one who sent in a nation thing :o
well furrnox send one right after I posted. But not even for a major.country
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 14, 2018, 12:16:40 am
Monitor cable broke

dont hear that one too often
give me your snapchat via PM
no
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 14, 2018, 12:17:22 am
Damn i was trying to geht ur nudes
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 14, 2018, 12:23:39 am
Damn i was trying to geht ur nudes
(https://camo.derpicdn.net/5489120d880ee361091104f4fd4f391b6c98805b?url=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-0xToZLlI3Eo%2FTgx1Bj9m9sI%2FAAAAAAAAI78%2FAyEFs0OkJkw%2Fs1600%2Fchris_hansen.gif)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 14, 2018, 12:35:56 am
(pssst change your bop m8)
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 14, 2018, 10:29:46 pm
(pssst change your bop m8)
but only you and during didn’t like the Victorian era and I’ve seen a couple new people show interest

I think he just needs to make the thread so people actually know what their signing up for
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 14, 2018, 10:40:14 pm
(pssst change your bop m8)
but only you and during didn’t like the Victorian era and I’ve seen a couple new people show interest

I think he just needs to make the thread so people actually know what their signing up for
i would prefer a different era as well
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 14, 2018, 10:54:28 pm
Okay so that’s 4 people who don’t like the Victorian era (I missed raddeos post earlier)

I honestly don’t care what era it is but I would rather play something the GM actually enjoys
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Dazzer on January 14, 2018, 11:09:17 pm
17th century anyone?
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 14, 2018, 11:47:19 pm
Okay so that’s 4 people who don’t like the Victorian era (I missed raddeos post earlier)

I honestly don’t care what era it is but I would rather play something the GM actually enjoys

uh, sorry, but when has it not been something the gm actually enjoys? "but i ACTUALLY like this era, guys! that means i'll make it way better!" thats total bullshit.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 15, 2018, 12:10:28 am
Okay so that’s 4 people who don’t like the Victorian era (I missed raddeos post earlier)

I honestly don’t care what era it is but I would rather play something the GM actually enjoys

uh, sorry, but when has it not been something the gm actually enjoys? "but i ACTUALLY like this era, guys! that means i'll make it way better!" thats total bullshit.
I mean I doubt caz, during and volks favorite era is WW1. And it’s not even about making the game better. It’s about the gm being able to actually enjoy being the gm
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 15, 2018, 01:23:52 am
not everyone is supposed to be a gm, not everyone enjoys being a player. if you want to be a gm you should know what that means.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 18, 2018, 08:05:56 am
Not gonna lie it sounds interesting. Although reading the battles was always one of my favorite parts about these games. I still go back an re-read some of them (specifically ones about Ethiopian landships)

I ask remember the last BoP you were working on awhile which was super over complicated. Even some of your ideas sound a little too complicated for a simple forum game
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on January 18, 2018, 09:55:41 pm
Not gonna lie it sounds interesting. Although reading the battles was always one of my favorite parts about these games. I still go back an re-read some of them (specifically ones about Ethiopian landships)

I ask remember the last BoP you were working on awhile which was super over complicated. Even some of your ideas sound a little too complicated for a simple forum game
Isn't that also what Furrnox did in his Japan game? I also remember another BoP that was being developed where they had like industrial levels & every level boosted something else by a certain % (I remember because I think all of England was Red & Orange). It seems like a lot to manage & handle.

I miss the Ethiopian landships too.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 18, 2018, 10:20:25 pm
Not gonna lie it sounds interesting. Although reading the battles was always one of my favorite parts about these games. I still go back an re-read some of them (specifically ones about Ethiopian landships)

I ask remember the last BoP you were working on awhile which was super over complicated. Even some of your ideas sound a little too complicated for a simple forum game

That one was based off a Total War, so yeah, I will agree on that. What sounds too complicated about this proposed system, though? And just to clarify, there will be battle reports, but shorter versions.
i think it was just the trade/resource system
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Audiate on January 19, 2018, 12:55:54 am
Most of the longer battle reports for AoE was done by me, and I remember getting those done within a day or two, and that would have been the same amount of time it would have taken me to write shorter ones. Those reports were treated as ways of explaining the occasional ridiculous rolls that people would have been shocked by.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 19, 2018, 02:20:42 am
No offense, but that is aids
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Volk on January 19, 2018, 02:21:43 am
some of your ideas sound a little too complicated for a simple forum game
This could be fun to code though if you have any knowledge of that. Seems like a smaller version of eu4 but the few elements are a bit more complex, only because a human would be doing all these things.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 19, 2018, 02:45:17 am
The economy system is simple for one nation. But can you imagine doing that for 10+ Nations every update? That shit is too much. It really sounds like EU4 but the difference is EU4 has a code to do everything while you want to do it all by hand
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 19, 2018, 05:31:38 am
The economy system is simple for one nation. But can you imagine doing that for 10+ Nations every update? That shit is too much. It really sounds like EU4 but the difference is EU4 has a code to do everything while you want to do it all by hand

Would take a couple of minutes per country. It'd take less time than writing long reports where one has to play with words. It's all simple maths and logic.

A has X tax income + X trade income + X resource income - X spent on armies/navies = +/- budget.

In fact, the dice rolls for battles would still be the most extensive part of GMing a system like this because of the phases and required writing. Also, players will have a good enough insight over their own economies (because they need to), so they can help by giving the necessary information and I'll just check if it's correct.
you say that now but if your game does happen you’ll see
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Windflower on January 19, 2018, 05:49:43 am
off topic
The economy system is simple for one nation. But can you imagine doing that for 10+ Nations every update? That shit is too much. It really sounds like EU4 but the difference is EU4 has a code to do everything while you want to do it all by hand

Would take a couple of minutes per country. It'd take less time than writing long reports where one has to play with words. It's all simple maths and logic.

A has X tax income + X trade income + X resource income - X spent on armies/navies = +/- budget.

In fact, the dice rolls for battles would still be the most extensive part of GMing a system like this because of the phases and required writing. Also, players will have a good enough insight over their own economies (because they need to), so they can help by giving the necessary information and I'll just check if it's correct.
you say that now but if your game does happen you’ll see
BabyJesus can you change ur avatar to ur old FSE avatar you used when you first started posting on FSE ty

- Community Rep Windflower
[close]
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Cazasar on January 30, 2018, 11:19:27 pm
Yes, lets do 4 different BoPs again that was fun
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Furrnox on January 31, 2018, 01:30:19 am
Caz if you want to do it than just do it, set up a thread see how people many sign up and if no one signs up just lock it.
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: BabyJesus on January 31, 2018, 01:37:36 am
Caz if you want to do it than just do it, set up a thread see how people many sign up and if no one signs up just lock it.
the threads already been posted
Title: Re: New BoP
Post by: Furrnox on January 31, 2018, 01:39:16 am
Shiet nvm then.