As I see any religion, a great harm to the humanity and its progress.
I can't see it at all :(Same, I have never seen 'The Islam'. Don't really know where everyone sees it, I have been looking for ages and never found it
This video says it all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY[/youtube]
My first question: How do you see the Islam?
;DMy first question: How do you see the Islam?
1. Muhammed is the messenger
2. Allah is our return
3. lala dida somola
It is racism you are dividing people in we and them and assuming things out of what 3 people did.Furrnox let me give you a tour in The Hague to see it your self, this thread asked me things and I replyed
All these people complaing about a small organisation wanting Sharia-law in the Netherlands, while we have a politicial party with 3 seats in the upper house who wants strict Protestant biblelaw. Same sex-marriage? Banned. Women allowed to work? Banned. Freedom of religion? Banned. Weed? Banned. Non-Religious schools? Banned.
Double standards? Naaah.
Why do we allow Christians to do what they wantWhat do you mean?
As I see any religion, a great harm to the humanity and its progress.
(THIS IS NOT RACIST)
All these people complaing about a small organisation wanting Sharia-law in the Netherlands, while we have a politicial party with 3 seats in the upper house who wants strict Protestant biblelaw. Same sex-marriage? Banned. Women allowed to work? Banned. Freedom of religion? Banned. Weed? Banned. Non-Religious schools? Banned.
Double standards? Naaah.
That. Exactly. Why do we allow Christians to do what they want, but ban Muslims? Religion should, in now way, influence politics. Ofc, their topics can overlap (like homosexual marriage), but the decisions should be based upon sense and logic, and not upon religious beliefs.
This video says it all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY[/youtube]
How about Wigsterism?Nah, about humanity, not turning myself into a deity.
I think most people isn't against the religion it self, but more against their people. Its understandable if you think about it. Its rather unfortunate that islam spread and was kept as the main religion in middle east, as they tend to war with eachother a lot, which makes islam seem like a religion of war. Christianity had good fortune and spread to western countries, which would be considered by most, more civilized.
Buddhism spread to East Asian countries, where the average IQ is pretty high and where the civilizations have been advanced since the beginning of history (I think). I think its just pure luck where the religions spread. Islam was the unfortunate one to spread to countries which would be colonized and set back a couple of decades back from the rest of the world.
#inb4lock
Islam is as nice of a religion as any other ones. Just when Islam does something bad it is more widely reported and in the media then other religions, I wonder why....That aint true. In Germany everyone went batshit about that one Bishop of the Catholics who built himself a mansion for millions of Euros. As soon as any religion does something wrong its on the media, but no one cares for corruption and crimes in the name of countries.
Just when Islam does something bad it is more widely reported and in the media then other religions, I wonder why....
Using one example to back up a point does not really work. They are anomalies but that does not back up a point. I believe that Muslims are shown in more a bad light then any other religion and I will explain later, but I am kinda busy at the moment. :-\Islam is as nice of a religion as any other ones. Just when Islam does something bad it is more widely reported and in the media then other religions, I wonder why....That aint true. In Germany everyone went batshit about that one Bishop of the Catholics who built himself a mansion for millions of Euros. As soon as any religion does something wrong its on the media, but no one cares for corruption and crimes in the name of countries.
Islam is as nice of a religion as any other ones. Just when Islam does something bad it is more widely reported and in the media then other religions, I wonder why....
That sounds not right. That implies that the arabic world is dumber than the rest which is not really true and would be racist. Up into the middleages the arabic world was leading in terms of medicine and cultur in comparison to Europe.
As someone mentioned before, the Islam as religion has not been reformed at all in since its founding in contrast to other religions like Christianity.
QuoteThat sounds not right. That implies that the arabic world is dumber than the rest which is not really true and would be racist. Up into the middleages the arabic world was leading in terms of medicine and cultur in comparison to Europe.
As someone mentioned before, the Islam as religion has not been reformed at all in since its founding in contrast to other religions like Christianity.
Oh no, Im not calling arabs dumb. Arabs are actually quite smart in my school, very good at math and very nice people. What I mean is that the arab countries was colonized, which put them back by a lot. European/western countries are simply more civilized, but doesn't make them smarter.
QuoteThat sounds not right. That implies that the arabic world is dumber than the rest which is not really true and would be racist. Up into the middleages the arabic world was leading in terms of medicine and cultur in comparison to Europe.
As someone mentioned before, the Islam as religion has not been reformed at all in since its founding in contrast to other religions like Christianity.
Oh no, Im not calling arabs dumb. Arabs are actually quite smart in my school, very good at math and very nice people. What I mean is that the arab countries was colonized, which put them back by a lot. European/western countries are simply more civilized, but doesn't make them smarter.
Just throwing it out there; maybe 'infidels' are the people who do not believe in God at all. Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same God, they just have different ways of practicing religion.
Just throwing it out there; maybe 'infidels' are the people who do not believe in God at all. Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same God, they just have different ways of practicing religion.
True, maybe I was a bit crude there. Islam does initially seem to support all Abrahamic religions and as I said sees Jews and Christians as their brothers. But instead later contradicts itself by denouncing them. But yes it would appear to have more dislike for people that follow idols or are atheists, but I haven't read the whole thing - I've just skimmed over it. Fascinating book... But I'm not fully enlightened to comment on it - so forgive inaccuracies.
The Barbary corsairs were cool aswel
The Barbary corsairs were cool aswel
Ah yes, enslaving hundreds of thousands of people is so cool.
very egalitarian proto-anarchist society
They proclaimed a Republic, ruled by a council or Diwan, a sort of government cabinet formed by 12 to 14 notable people whose members elected every year during the month of May a Governor and a Captain General of the Fortalesa. In the early years of the republic (between 1627 and 1630), the Diwan was controlled only by Hornacheros, whose grip was poorly tolerated by the growing population of non-Hornachero Moriscos, called Andalusians.[9] After bloody clashes in 1630, an agreement was reached: the election of a Qaid by Andalusians and a new Diwan of 16 members of whom 8 Andalusians and 8 Hornacheros.[10]
Just throwing it out there; maybe 'infidels' are the people who do not believe in God at all. Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same God, they just have different ways of practicing religion.
True, maybe I was a bit crude there. Islam does initially seem to support all Abrahamic religions and as I said sees Jews and Christians as their brothers. But instead later contradicts itself by denouncing them. But yes it would appear to have more dislike for people that follow idols or are atheists, but I haven't read the whole thing - I've just skimmed over it. Fascinating book... But I'm not fully enlightened to comment on it - so forgive inaccuracies.
I personally have never read stuff about killing infidels to be honest, but im not saying you are lying. The Quran says, if I can recall it word by word. ''Do not kill someone else because he doesn't believe in god. God is the only one that can punish someone'' (That of course refers to hell). Muslims are taught that only god can punish and turly forgive someone, and that you should either ignore or understand others.
In Islam, even homosexuality is accepted-ish. In the Quran, and this one I think I recall correctly, it says that '' Treat a homosexual as any friend of yours, but try your best to help him out of his sexual desires towards other men''. It simply says that you should not look down on homosexuals, but try and talk to them about why homosexuality isn't right (This isn't my opinion, I personally think homosexuality is ok, I don't mind who fucks who.).
The reason why people stone homosexuals or behead them in muslim countries is simple as that people in these countries don't get proper education, and most of them can't read. A fucktard like bin laden can easily tell like
'' Quran says death to america and no to homosexuality, lets kill them all''. Then of course, the people who can't read ect. has to believe it, because they would never think that their glorious leader would lie to them.
Quote from: Augyvery egalitarian proto-anarchist societyQuote from: WikipediaThey proclaimed a Republic, ruled by a council or Diwan, a sort of government cabinet formed by 12 to 14 notable people whose members elected every year during the month of May a Governor and a Captain General of the Fortalesa. In the early years of the republic (between 1627 and 1630), the Diwan was controlled only by Hornacheros, whose grip was poorly tolerated by the growing population of non-Hornachero Moriscos, called Andalusians.[9] After bloody clashes in 1630, an agreement was reached: the election of a Qaid by Andalusians and a new Diwan of 16 members of whom 8 Andalusians and 8 Hornacheros.[10]
Sure Augy. Sure.
i know you're all a bunch of insufferable J. Edgar Hoovers but please move on.
i know you're all a bunch of insufferable J. Edgar Hoovers but please move on.
Just throwing it out there; maybe 'infidels' are the people who do not believe in God at all. Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same God, they just have different ways of practicing religion.
True, maybe I was a bit crude there. Islam does initially seem to support all Abrahamic religions and as I said sees Jews and Christians as their brothers. But instead later contradicts itself by denouncing them. But yes it would appear to have more dislike for people that follow idols or are atheists, but I haven't read the whole thing - I've just skimmed over it. Fascinating book... But I'm not fully enlightened to comment on it - so forgive inaccuracies.
I personally have never read stuff about killing infidels to be honest, but im not saying you are lying. The Quran says, if I can recall it word by word. ''Do not kill someone else because he doesn't believe in god. God is the only one that can punish someone'' (That of course refers to hell). Muslims are taught that only god can punish and turly forgive someone, and that you should either ignore or understand others.
In Islam, even homosexuality is accepted-ish. In the Quran, and this one I think I recall correctly, it says that '' Treat a homosexual as any friend of yours, but try your best to help him out of his sexual desires towards other men''. It simply says that you should not look down on homosexuals, but try and talk to them about why homosexuality isn't right (This isn't my opinion, I personally think homosexuality is ok, I don't mind who fucks who.).
The reason why people stone homosexuals or behead them in muslim countries is simple as that people in these countries don't get proper education, and most of them can't read. A fucktard like bin laden can easily tell like
'' Quran says death to america and no to homosexuality, lets kill them all''. Then of course, the people who can't read ect. has to believe it, because they would never think that their glorious leader would lie to them.
Thanks for the non 'omg u are a facist presidente blah blah blah' reply. I much prefer having replies that criticise and correct what I say, when I am at fault or you know - don't see the full picture. And yeah, I guess we're in the same league when it comes to the Middle East. The problem is the lack of education and like I said I believe getting women into good, not religious education - as with boys - is fundamental in finally tearing down the walls of the twisted Koran.
However, I am still curious as to whether you condone Sharia Law, or despise it? I hope the latter. I truly believe religion should stay well away from politics. The only occasion where I am unsure of how to act is gay marriage. I have no problem with homosexuals in the UK, however, my concern is that if homosexuals are allowed to marry and a church refuses - they could take their case to the ever so hated European Court of Human Rights - which could impede the freedom of the church goers to express their religious views. Think that's a ridiculous idea? Look at some of the shit people waste millions going to that stupid court for. It's quite easily possible.
EDIT: Please don't misinterpret what I mean by 'twisted Koran'. I mean the twisted versions, lies on the part of Imams and preachers.
The problem with Islam as i see it is the Hadiths, practiced as the Sunnah, the supposed teachings and actions of Muhammad written 200 years after his death, pretty much commissioned by the rulers of the time to back up their laws, they contain all sorts of crazy shit, violent things, and the outright retarded. And as much as Islamic "fundamentalists" claim to be going back to basics, all they really do is base all their doctrine off copying Muhammad from the hadiths, they practically ignore the Quran. The Quran is tiny in comparison to the amount of hadith literature as well. A true fundamentalist would ignore them, they weren't around for the first 200 years of Islam, and in the Quran it tells you not to listen to religious teachings from other books. These Muslims do exist, they're called Quranists, they only follow the Quran, and i think that is probably the only way Islam is going to modernise. Get rid of all the insane traditions associated with Islam which don't come from the quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism#Examples
The problem with Islam as i see it is the Hadiths, practiced as the Sunnah, the supposed teachings and actions of Muhammad written 200 years after his death, pretty much commissioned by the rulers of the time to back up their laws, they contain all sorts of crazy shit, violent things, and the outright retarded. And as much as Islamic "fundamentalists" claim to be going back to basics, all they really do is base all their doctrine off copying Muhammad from the hadiths, they practically ignore the Quran. The Quran is tiny in comparison to the amount of hadith literature as well. A true fundamentalist would ignore them, they weren't around for the first 200 years of Islam, and in the Quran it tells you not to listen to religious teachings from other books. These Muslims do exist, they're called Quranists, they only follow the Quran, and i think that is probably the only way Islam is going to modernise. Get rid of all the insane traditions associated with Islam which don't come from the quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism#Examples
Oh man you mistake the hadith for something else (Maybe sharia law?). The true hadith, which you could find in modernised muslim countries like turkey. It tells verh heart warming tales about how prophet muhammad would help people in need and give wise tips to people.
-Can only eat with left hand
-Slicing animals throats
-The Veil and burqa
-Circumcision
-Abrogation of verses
-Stoning people
-slavery
-beating your wife
I'm trying to tell you those things aren't from the quran so theres no need for muslims to follow it or believe it.
The hand eating might have originated with the method of wiping your rear with your right hand and eating with the left, it's some sort of trditional thing in some parts of india I beleive.I'm trying to tell you those things aren't from the quran so theres no need for muslims to follow it or believe it.
Allright ? Whoever wishes to eat with their left hand can do so, but im comfortable with my right hand so I will use that. Muslims don't go around and force eachother the eat with their left hand lol.
Christians are supposed to do the same but reversed. Wipe with left and shake hands with right.The hand eating might have originated with the method of wiping your rear with your right hand and eating with the left, it's some sort of trditional thing in some parts of india I beleive.I'm trying to tell you those things aren't from the quran so theres no need for muslims to follow it or believe it.
Allright ? Whoever wishes to eat with their left hand can do so, but im comfortable with my right hand so I will use that. Muslims don't go around and force eachother the eat with their left hand lol.
Why are the extremists still fussing in the middle east? The Maahdi came back in the late 1800's and died in a predicted number of months stated by the qu'ran.
Oh no, Im not calling arabs dumb. Arabs are actually quite smart in my school, very good at math and very nice people. What I mean is that the arab countries was colonized, which put them back by a lot. European/western countries are simply more civilized, but doesn't make them smarter.
Why are the extremists still fussing in the middle east? The Maahdi came back in the late 1800's and died in a predicted number of months stated by the qu'ran.
What proof is there that he was the actual Mahdi.
Oh no, Im not calling arabs dumb. Arabs are actually quite smart in my school, very good at math and very nice people. What I mean is that the arab countries was colonized, which put them back by a lot. European/western countries are simply more civilized, but doesn't make them smarter.
Not to be railing against Europe (I like Europe, in all honesty).
But I feel as though Colonialism was the thing that really screwed over most Islamic nations. The only Islamic nation that is in a good state as of now is Turkey, which was (Wait for it) never colonized! Every nation that has been colonized or under some form of occupation has been behind technology wise (Eastern Europe, Indochina, Africa).
Also, Oscar, if you try to keep pushing that bullshit propaganda video through this site I'll make it my life goal to undermine the "Swedish Democracy" morons you love so much. Stop spreading lies about something you know nothing about, you're worse than Van_Hausen's hero.
Why are the extremists still fussing in the middle east? The Maahdi came back in the late 1800's and died in a predicted number of months stated by the qu'ran.
Oh no, Im not calling arabs dumb. Arabs are actually quite smart in my school, very good at math and very nice people. What I mean is that the arab countries was colonized, which put them back by a lot. European/western countries are simply more civilized, but doesn't make them smarter.
Not to be railing against Europe (I like Europe, in all honesty).
But I feel as though Colonialism was the thing that really screwed over most Islamic nations. The only Islamic nation that is in a good state as of now is Turkey, which was (Wait for it) never colonized! Every nation that has been colonized or under some form of occupation has been behind technology wise (Eastern Europe, Indochina, Africa).
Also saying I'm a Muslim that takes effectively all Hadiths with grains of salt and only listens to the actual word of God (That's the Quran, btw), I really don't believe in most of the stuff that extremist groups like Al Qaeda try to push forward. I also try and listen to what the Prophet said about him... not being infallible? How he told us not to treat him like a god, which unfortunately many people do today...
Also, Oscar, if you try to keep pushing that bullshit propaganda video through this site I'll make it my life goal to undermine the "Swedish Democracy" morons you love so much. Stop spreading lies about something you know nothing about, you're worse than Van_Hausen's hero.
If a Muslim rejects the Bible he obviously has not read the entire Quran, the Bible and Torah are supposed to be concidered holy texts.
Also I meant I don't believe hadiths, I only pay attention to the actual books. Not gossip about what a prophet may have said.
We should build a time machine and sort this shit out. :P
If a Muslim rejects the Bible he obviously has not read the entire Quran, the Bible and Torah are supposed to be concidered holy texts.
Also I meant I don't believe hadiths, I only pay attention to the actual books. Not gossip about what a prophet may have said.
By reject it i meant, not follow it as guidance. It's considered too unreliable and edited.
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
It's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
Because you are pro when it comes to Islam right?
Who is the one coming to this thread with a video he could have found it by typing in YouTube "Bad things about Islam", which is the equivalent to those idiotic videos about how everyone is an Illuminati in the world.
SpoilerIt's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
Because you are pro when it comes to Islam right?
Who is the one coming to this thread with a video he could have found it by typing in YouTube "Bad things about Islam", which is the equivalent to those idiotic videos about how everyone is an Illuminati in the world.
Islam is so perfect in every possible way, sorry.[close]
So you can't critize Islam without being a nazi?SpoilerIt's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
Because you are pro when it comes to Islam right?
Who is the one coming to this thread with a video he could have found it by typing in YouTube "Bad things about Islam", which is the equivalent to those idiotic videos about how everyone is an Illuminati in the world.
Islam is so perfect in every possible way, sorry.[close]
I'm not impressed by your "criticism of Islam". far right populists love to hate on islam, yet they dont apply the same logic to their precious Christianity.
Sverigedemokraterna (far right populist party in the Swedish parliament) wants to subsidize "swedish" culture, stuff like folk songs that noone listens to, to create cultural change thats paralell with the political change.
I'll leave it up to you all to decide what their agenda is. To create a democratic, secular society free of repression, or something completely else and wacky.
The criticism of Islam is used to protect the real motives behind the goals that these groups want to achieve, and the real motive is quite simply a higher percentage of white people in the streets.
True pure xenophobia is what drives most "critics of islam", bunch of un-enlightened buffoons i say.
So you can't critize Islam without being a nazi?SpoilerIt's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
Because you are pro when it comes to Islam right?
Who is the one coming to this thread with a video he could have found it by typing in YouTube "Bad things about Islam", which is the equivalent to those idiotic videos about how everyone is an Illuminati in the world.
Islam is so perfect in every possible way, sorry.[close]
I'm not impressed by your "criticism of Islam". far right populists love to hate on islam, yet they dont apply the same logic to their precious Christianity.
Sverigedemokraterna (far right populist party in the Swedish parliament) wants to subsidize "swedish" culture, stuff like folk songs that noone listens to, to create cultural change thats paralell with the political change.
I'll leave it up to you all to decide what their agenda is. To create a democratic, secular society free of repression, or something completely else and wacky.
The criticism of Islam is used to protect the real motives behind the goals that these groups want to achieve, and the real motive is quite simply a higher percentage of white people in the streets.
True pure xenophobia is what drives most "critics of islam", bunch of un-enlightened buffoons i say.
You can critisize the Islam of course.
Only make sure you're not spewing bullshit like you're doing now.
You can critisize the Islam of course.
Only make sure you're not spewing bullshit like you're doing now.
"Hate the game, not the player". I consider Islam (and all organized religion) to be extremely harmful to society. However, I do not attack any individual person for their beliefs. I blame the institution as a whole. Same idea applies to other institutions such as the military.
Yep, all protest against islamification of Europe comes down to 'xenophobia' and immigrant hate.Where do you live again?
If a Muslim rejects the Bible he obviously has not read the entire Quran, the Bible and Torah are supposed to be concidered holy texts.
Also I meant I don't believe hadiths, I only pay attention to the actual books. Not gossip about what a prophet may have said.
By reject it i meant, not follow it as guidance. It's considered too unreliable and edited.
Yes this. We muslims don't believe that Jesus is the son of god, but rather a prophet. The bible was written after Jesus death and that's why we don't consider it to be a reliable source or whatever you want to call it.
It's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?
GG everything bad about islam is Europes imperialistic ass's fault and everything I say is lies and propaganda. Forgive me, I forgot!
You seem to have forgot that Turkey used censorship and way to much violence to stop the riots.
I like how you say I know nothing about the subject and then you call SD morons because you are pro at Swedish politics.
It doesn't matter that it says in the qu'ran that everyone must show love and respect, It's what happening in real life that matters and it isn't looking pleasant.
Because you are pro when it comes to Islam right?
Who is the one coming to this thread with a video he could have found it by typing in YouTube "Bad things about Islam", which is the equivalent to those idiotic videos about how everyone is an Illuminati in the world.
Islam is so perfect in every possible way, sorry.
Yep, all protest against islamification of Europe comes down to 'xenophobia' and immigrant hate.Where do you live again?Spoiler[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=espUm2tMK3w[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwUrolahPqE[/youtube][close]
It's ok to critic Christianity but if I say something bad about Islam, I'm fucked up, right?