NA Competitive Community State of Affairs - *New Poll*

[Dan the Seagull Chef]

The problem NW has is no one wants to watch a hour and a half of 2 regiments sitting on a hill. Its just not enjoyable.

A few years ago when TTT was the hottest shit, people used to make rounds into a min or two of highlights. That stuff took like 10 mins usually. If we a LB down to a ~10 minute highlight maybe we could get something out of it.

[BabyJesus]

The problem NW has is no one wants to watch a hour and a half of 2 regiments sitting on a hill. Its just not enjoyable.

If you were to focus on 1vs1 line battles with recording. Then you could easily get some basic rules that would prevent that with an admin on.

I hope that Mikkel takes the same initiative and starts a thread similar to this for the EU-side of the community. Back in the days when the Official EU1 server started dieing out, I suggested various options to get interest back in the official servers. Special events etc (Around the same that Thundersnow has suggested). However the community managers back then just didn't take any initiative to start something off that could give an additional impulse to the decreasing server population and the increasing lack of interest. But perhaps with the CR's in place, something can finally be accomplished.

Theres already a camping time limit, whether or not is enforced is a different story. Besides that idk what rule you could add that wouldnt just make it a groupfighting match.

The problem NW has is no one wants to watch a hour and a half of 2 regiments sitting on a hill. Its just not enjoyable.

A few years ago when TTT was the hottest shit, people used to make rounds into a min or two of highlights. That stuff took like 10 mins usually. If we a LB down to a ~10 minute highlight maybe we could get something out of it.

I guess thats an option but what would you highlight? Like a nice volley shot or melee?

[William]

This is sort of crazy and has some obvious problems that I'll address later but I definitely feel that salt isn't the problem, rather the lack of centralization/concentration of the community regarding servers. I don't mind the amount of regiments since it's great for diversity but the fact that we're all split up over dozens of servers from group fighting, siege, tdm, to even roleplay really separates the community and the public community. I feel like if we actually tried to just keep all the members on to a few servers it would help concentrate pubs and improve recruiting for all. Maybe we could do a system of where 'on monday all regiments play on X regiment's server but can recruit as well' (of course less then the hoster regiment which would be getting unlimited messages to recruit) and then change  the server we populate everyday. I know it's a little far fetched but it will help concentrate the new players and get them introduced to regiments. I know it's a little crazy but I mean hey, it's an idea :-p

Problems: DDosing, abuse, drama, etc

[Gokiller]

Theres already a camping time limit

Fair enough, didn't knew that. Keeping it to highlights only is then a good alternative option like Dan said.

[Dan the Seagull Chef]

The problem NW has is no one wants to watch a hour and a half of 2 regiments sitting on a hill. Its just not enjoyable.

A few years ago when TTT was the hottest shit, people used to make rounds into a min or two of highlights. That stuff took like 10 mins usually. If we a LB down to a ~10 minute highlight maybe we could get something out of it.

I guess thats an option but what would you highlight? Like a nice volley shot or melee?
[/quote]
Charges, funny moments, some bomb ass volleys. All the fun stuff, you know?

[Thundersnow]

This is sort of crazy and has some obvious problems that I'll address later but I definitely feel that salt isn't the problem, rather the lack of centralization/concentration of the community regarding servers. I don't mind the amount of regiments since it's great for diversity but the fact that we're all split up over dozens of servers from group fighting, siege, tdm, to even roleplay really separates the community and the public community. I feel like if we actually tried to just keep all the members on to a few servers it would help concentrate pubs and improve recruiting for all. Maybe we could do a system of where 'on monday all regiments play on X regiment's server but can recruit as well' (of course less then the hoster regiment which would be getting unlimited messages to recruit) and then change  the server we populate everyday. I know it's a little far fetched but it will help concentrate the new players and get them introduced to regiments. I know it's a little crazy but I mean hey, it's an idea :-p

Problems: DDosing, abuse, drama, etc

I remember back in the day everyone knew who everyone else was.  Then NW was out for about a month, new regiments swelled in numbers and all the Events branched out of the Friday Hardcore Linebattle.  (At least on Fridays)  After that, everyone was in their own worlds dealing with their own attending regiment regulars and the floating regiments coming in and out.  That was about 4 years ago.

5arge and I used to talk about doing a 'regiment exchange' transversing between our separate Events to kind of mix things up and re-introduce other regiments, but who has time for that kind of balancing act when you're dealing with 400 people.

Still a good concept.  Perhaps someone else can evolve the idea into something more tangential. 

[Grimsight]

3) The salt/shitposting and its leakage into other section of the forums.

There is a potential for concrete action here, but we have to preserve the fine line between being overly heavy-handed with moderation and allowing regiments/players to work out their own problems.

The leakage problem can potentially be mitigated via the reform of forum rules (a project that is also currently being undertaken). Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards. Maybe an immediate snip and watch for taking any sort of drama (especially in a way that violates rule 2 or 4) to another regiment's thread (and warning off others thinking of doing the same thing). Subsequently, anyone violating the rule again on the thread after this initial warning would receive an escalated penalty (larger watch or perhaps even a mute). Of course, this would also involve a re-affirmation to regiments that they are to deal with regimental disputes through the appropriate channels (PM or on the actual event thread). Basically, regiments are left free to sort out their own drama via appropriate channels while mods act to contain the fire when it spreads out of control. We can't stop the drama cold turkey, but perhaps we can get it under control at least to some extent (and prevent it from alienating players, especially newer ones).

I'm interested to see what you think of this actually.

Over policing is not the answer here, that is a slippery slope leading to the same problems we had to deal with in past years. It's all well and good saying salt/drama/trolling has to be stopped, but almost everyone on the forums are guilty of contributing to the problem at some point in time(myself included). When a policy like this gets in place, it will come to bite some in the ass after they are watched for some harmless 'bant'. Not to mention we have quite a few people in the community who view disagreement/discussion as shitposting and drama. Thus danger of this system being abused.

There ARE legitimate instances of trolling, if you want to improve the atmosphere on the forums then those specific people should be watched over. I very rarely see actual instances of trolling being addressed. A blanket policy of NO DRAMA will require a huge amount of moderation. It's not sustainable, it's not healthy for discussion, it's ambiguous, and it's abusable.

[BabyJesus]

Grimsights stop causing drama. God

[Salt]

Also it'd make the forums incredibly boring.

[Stunned Lime]

Well, I have only been back like 2 weeks, but thus far I dont see an issue with the number of competitive regiments, they are still around, just different rosters as usual.  I would say in order to drive the competitive scene forward a notch, maybe partner with a famous twitch streamer or youtuber to commentate competitive matches, create an overall competitive ladder (its easy to custom create a page like that, I am sure one of you guys has a coding nerd in your reg), and have a committee oversee that ladder weekly, to ensure up to date statistics, which can include regiment wins/losses, and maybe even player data (if regiment leaders can submit player data most of this would be seamless, also if any way to track k/d during linebattles using a script).  And yes, prize money should be involved at some point if you really want to turn it up a notch, you can get some sponsors to offer a reward, maybe steam gifts or actual $, but this is what I was going to do a while back. 

Clean up the shit. (pardon my language)  but the amount of shitposting and trolls since I was gone increased 10 fold, its pretty amazing.  People also need to stop reg hopping every few months, I think the new league rule will be quite effective with stopping that on the competitive side. 

Also for those calling 63e biggest NA and stealing all members, that is not the case.  In the beginning, a lot of them watched either diplex's or speirstheamazing's 63e videos and were instantly attracted to us, regardless if they used to play on our siege server or not, they knew what type of community we had prior to that.  And on our siege server, it was strict but we tried to make it as fun as possible (unfortunately it died since I was gone), but again we were not the first regiment to use that monopoly strategy.  I also was already acquainted with several youtubers who wanted to play with us, thats not my fault or the regiment's, in fact it probably did even more to get those audiences into NW, probably hundreds of new players. 

Retention rate in this game is one thing that will always be a struggle, and to fix that you need to have a community united and structured in a way that makes it immediately more enjoyable and immersive for a new player. 

Just my thoughts, bash away if you like, but just from what I am seeing since back (and personally I dont have time to do whatever I said anymore which is why its all out there in the open)

+1 on trolling and reg hopping! Probably one of the dirtiest things to occur in the community since the community is founded upon groups with rank structures and a lot of leadership. Also plaigirism of people's FSE work and ideas is another thing I've noticed that has been bothering me as someone who tries to make his own Photoshop works and regimental ideas. People should be more creative when creating their own regiment. Also whosoever work is used should be asked for permission and cited.

As for interest in game is just dependent on the experiences we create in line battles to be honest, the only reason I was ever hooked to this game was because my first regiment was a big regiment lead by fantastic leaders that honestly opened the game up for me. In all honesty, not many features could be added to a game like this to be make it more popular only a true update of the game itself or some sort of expansion pack.

3) The salt/shitposting and its leakage into other section of the forums.

There is a potential for concrete action here, but we have to preserve the fine line between being overly heavy-handed with moderation and allowing regiments/players to work out their own problems.

The leakage problem can potentially be mitigated via the reform of forum rules (a project that is also currently being undertaken). Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards. Maybe an immediate snip and watch for taking any sort of drama (especially in a way that violates rule 2 or 4) to another regiment's thread (and warning off others thinking of doing the same thing). Subsequently, anyone violating the rule again on the thread after this initial warning would receive an escalated penalty (larger watch or perhaps even a mute). Of course, this would also involve a re-affirmation to regiments that they are to deal with regimental disputes through the appropriate channels (PM or on the actual event thread). Basically, regiments are left free to sort out their own drama via appropriate channels while mods act to contain the fire when it spreads out of control. We can't stop the drama cold turkey, but perhaps we can get it under control at least to some extent (and prevent it from alienating players, especially newer ones).

I'm interested to see what you think of this actually.

Over policing is not the answer here, that is a slippery slope leading to the same problems we had to deal with in past years. It's all well and good saying salt/drama/trolling has to be stopped, but almost everyone on the forums are guilty of contributing to the problem at some point in time(myself included). When a policy like this gets in place, it will come to bite some in the ass after they are watched for some harmless 'bant'. Not to mention we have quite a few people in the community who view disagreement/discussion as shitposting and drama. Thus danger of this system being abused.

There ARE legitimate instances of trolling, if you want to improve the atmosphere on the forums then those specific people should be watched over. I very rarely see actual instances of trolling being addressed. A blanket policy of NO DRAMA will require a huge amount of moderation. It's not sustainable, it's not healthy for discussion, it's ambiguous, and it's abusable.

I completely agree with Grimsight on this one too, trolling must be eliminated but drama and saltiness is just a mere factor of all competitive games. It must just be understood by all correctly and solved in the correct fashion. If someone actually does something wrong i.e breaking server rules or game rules then it should be discussed but if its a matter of opinion then that should be held back from forum content.

[Xethos]

Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards.

A blanket policy of NO DRAMA will require a huge amount of moderation.

Maybe you're right, but a blanket policy of "no drama" isn't on the cards to begin with. While everybody is going to have their disagreements, nobody needs to have their disagreements on eight different threads. Junedragon is proposing (I believe) simply to keep event problems in the event threads and the regimental problems in the regimental threads and letting the parties not involved be.

[Windflower]

I do like what the Native community does with their tournaments, interesting stuff that could be applied to TNWL to make it more professional looking.

[junedragon]

Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards.

A blanket policy of NO DRAMA will require a huge amount of moderation.

Maybe you're right, but a blanket policy of "no drama" isn't on the cards to begin with. While everybody is going to have their disagreements, nobody needs to have their disagreements on eight different threads. Junedragon is proposing (I believe) simply to keep event problems in the event threads and the regimental problems in the regimental threads and letting the parties not involved be.

This.

As I said, shit talking and banter is absolutely fine within reason. Its going to happen. I'm not saying "NO DRAMA PERIOD" because that is never going to happen.

I'm talking about what a few people mentioned in the survey:

confrontation occurs in an event/the events section between reg X and reg Y--> member of reg X takes to the thread of reg Y (in the regs board) and posts comments deliberately intended to fan the flames and instigate a shitstorm --> other members of reg X and Y get inolved and the fire burns out of control --> now from a relatively minor incident (which could easily have been dealt with via appropriate channels - either by pm, steam, or on the event thread) there's a forum wide shitshow between regs X and Y, permanently turning players (especially newer ones not used to the drama) away from the community (as some have pointed out, dozens of players have quit the community altogether over these incidents).

This escalation is not conducive to maintaining a solid and appealing (to new players) community.

Also, its generally easy to tell the difference between some harmless banter and being an instigating cunt.

[Chantakey]

Takeaways so far (mostly just brainstorming):

1) Dealing with the problem of players that sign up for events/tournaments and never show up.

Perhaps friendly reminders not to do this the first time (someone is found to have done it), then some form of sanction for repeat offenders?


2) Find ways to engage new players and give them a taste of the competitive community.

This requires more of a change in the behaviour of prominent community members. For instance, it involves trying to convince regiment leaders that developing newer players and giving them a chance to actually enjoy the game/get involved is important. We must find a way to balance out the desire to win trophies and be "successful" (nothing wrong with competition, of course) with maintaining and engaging new players.

It also involves actually attracting new players, which is obviously becoming progressively more difficult as NW ages. The use of media (Youtube, Twitch, etc.) has of course proved very successful. I'd like to explore possible ways to continue in this regard and give it a boost.

Lastly, I actually had an idea for an event along these lines. I'm gonna roll it out in a day or two.


3) The salt/shitposting and its leakage into other section of the forums.

There is a potential for concrete action here, but we have to preserve the fine line between being overly heavy-handed with moderation and allowing regiments/players to work out their own problems.

The leakage problem can potentially be mitigated via the reform of forum rules (a project that is also currently being undertaken). Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards. Maybe an immediate snip and watch for taking any sort of drama (especially in a way that violates rule 2 or 4) to another regiment's thread (and warning off others thinking of doing the same thing). Subsequently, anyone violating the rule again on the thread after this initial warning would receive an escalated penalty (larger watch or perhaps even a mute). Of course, this would also involve a re-affirmation to regiments that they are to deal with regimental disputes through the appropriate channels (PM or on the actual event thread). Basically, regiments are left free to sort out their own drama via appropriate channels while mods act to contain the fire when it spreads out of control. We can't stop the drama cold turkey, but perhaps we can get it under control at least to some extent (and prevent it from alienating players, especially newer ones).

I'm interested to see what you think of this actually.

Yay becker did something wooh.

[Grimsight]

Specifically, perhaps we could pursue stricter and more clearly defined penalties for dragging reg drama into other boards.

A blanket policy of NO DRAMA will require a huge amount of moderation.

Maybe you're right, but a blanket policy of "no drama" isn't on the cards to begin with. While everybody is going to have their disagreements, nobody needs to have their disagreements on eight different threads. Junedragon is proposing (I believe) simply to keep event problems in the event threads and the regimental problems in the regimental threads and letting the parties not involved be.

This.

As I said, shit talking and banter is absolutely fine within reason. Its going to happen. I'm not saying "NO DRAMA PERIOD" because that is never going to happen.

I'm talking about what a few people mentioned in the survey:

confrontation occurs in an event/the events section between reg X and reg Y--> member of reg X takes to the thread of reg Y (in the regs board) and posts comments deliberately intended to fan the flames and instigate a shitstorm --> other members of reg X and Y get inolved and the fire burns out of control --> now from a relatively minor incident (which could easily have been dealt with via appropriate channels - either by pm, steam, or on the event thread) there's a forum wide shitshow between regs X and Y, permanently turning players (especially newer ones not used to the drama) away from the community (as some have pointed out, dozens of players have quit the community altogether over these incidents).

This escalation is not conducive to maintaining a solid and appealing (to new players) community.

Also, its generally easy to tell the difference between some harmless banter and being an instigating cunt.

Obviously, legitimate trolling should be dealt with.

Anyway, I suppose until you put out clearly defined rules and penalties, I can't say much. I am just worried that this will become too broad - and useful discussions although heated (to the eye of the beholder) will be viewed as 'drama'.