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The Lounge => Off Topic => Topic started by: George385 on August 31, 2017, 06:35:48 pm

Title: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on August 31, 2017, 06:35:48 pm
So the Government of Canada is set to legalize cannabis by July 1st next year. The legalization is meant to eliminate the black market, create 15 000 new jobs, boost the economy, decrease crime and allow for the production of hemp as an alternative to cotton, paper and so on.

The Task Force comprised of lawyers, police officers, politicians, leading  doctors and scientists decided unanimously that the legalization of cannabis would be a good thing, the major concerns being for the youth in the development of the brain.

What is your opinion on the push by Trudeau's party that has overwhelming support?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on August 31, 2017, 07:11:40 pm
I heard it has implications to undeveloped brains i.e kids? Is that true? If so I would support it as long as it comes with an age restriction like alcohol and smoking.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on August 31, 2017, 07:17:28 pm
At a time when the evidence is pilling up regarding the link between cannabis use and mental illness, this is an insane policy. I don't know how any doctor could say this was a good idea. Also it clearly won't eliminate the black market-I'm assuming the Canadian government is going to tax it, limit THC content, and a variety of other restrictions. If there's a black market for tobacco and alcohol there will be for cannabis too.

Also I have so many issues with this BS: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/marijuana/
-There is no prohibition against cannabis in Canada, it's essentially decriminalised. If there was Prohibition then this would never have happened: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pro-marijuana-protesters-hit-parliament-hill-1.2616223
You also need to explain why in large parts of the country the police rarely prosecute for it: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-patchwork-pot-policy-how-possession-charges-vary-from-city-to-city/article16377021/

-Also if you make cannabis legal more kids will smoke it. Duh.

I've seen arguments in favour of cannabis legalisation and they're usually a lot better than that.

Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Vincenzo on August 31, 2017, 07:45:17 pm
When the Netherlands legalised canabis, hasj, and magic mushrooms the criminality rates went down by 50%, that includes especially murders, there has not been a raise in mental illnesses and the average use per person of soft drugs compared to the countries around the Netherlands like Germany is at 25%.

Please tell me again how legalising it increases it's usage?

Most people here just give a shit, its legal, it's not special, nobody cares about it. only losers smoke it regulary, or people that need some fun can do it maybe in the weekend. Nobody is hurt from it, quality is much better than illegal shit.
/argument
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on August 31, 2017, 08:54:07 pm
Was about to say the same thing.

Alcohol consumption causes much more harm than cannabis consumption.

Generally abuse and criminality in the U.S. coul do down more significantly if they'd consider a judicial reform and lowering sentences and focus more in re-integration than on punishment. But that is a philosophical discussion to which a large part of the U.S. becomes more even more disproportionately emotional than with background checks for firearms.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on August 31, 2017, 09:13:06 pm
When the Netherlands legalised canabis, hasj, and magic mushrooms the criminality rates went down by 50%, that includes especially murders, there has not been a raise in mental illnesses and the average use per person of soft drugs compared to the countries around the Netherlands like Germany is at 25%.

Please tell me again how legalising it increases it's usage?

Most people here just give a shit, its legal, it's not special, nobody cares about it. only losers smoke it regulary, or people that need some fun can do it maybe in the weekend. Nobody is hurt from it, quality is much better than illegal shit.
/argument

Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and never has been, so your argument falls. Magic mushrooms are't legal either. It's simply decriminalised for personal use (having less than 5g on you, or growing 5 plants or less). It's still illegal in the Netherlands to buy, deal or cultivate cannabis.

Dutch polices on cannabis are actually stricter than in most parts of the UK. Here many police forces will turn a blind eye to it-you'd have to be carrying *a lot* more than 5g to be arrested. It's a bit of a lottery of course, some parts of the country do still rigorously enforce the law but most have de facto decriminalised.

What being proposed in Canada is very different-the drug will be fully legalised and thus commercialised. It will be advertised and sold openly the same as alcohol. That's not the same thing as simple toleration for personal use.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on August 31, 2017, 09:45:17 pm
I heard it has implications to undeveloped brains i.e kids? Is that true? If so I would support it as long as it comes with an age restriction like alcohol and smoking.
Ive seen a couple of studies that said that. Up until like 25, it hurts brain development or something.

The age restriction, while I support it, is pretty useless tbh. It's kinda just there so the government can say they tried
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 04:33:53 am
While my position is closer to the decriminalization of it for personal use an interesting fact that a friend pointed out is that DUI rates related to marijuana increases as violent crime decreases in areas which legalize it.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 01, 2017, 07:08:38 am
At a time when the evidence is pilling up regarding the link between cannabis use and mental illness, this is an insane policy. I don't know how any doctor could say this was a good idea. Also it clearly won't eliminate the black market-I'm assuming the Canadian government is going to tax it, limit THC content, and a variety of other restrictions. If there's a black market for tobacco and alcohol there will be for cannabis too.

There isn't a black market for tobacco and alcohol. Well, not legal alcohol and tobacco. There are alcoholic beverages that do have a black market, such as moonshine. And the traditional Cuban cigars are illegal because the whole leaf used in them can be used to extract cocaine. The black market surrounding cannabis is extremely expensive. To put it into perspective with tobacco, 50g of tobacco costs around $30 tops in Australia. 50g of cannabis costs around $600. Australia, having one of the highest tobacco tax rates in the world. The THC is staying the same.

There has been no evidence to support the direct link between cannabis use and the creation of mental illnesses. The only time I've seen cannabis negativity affect someone with a mental illness was a person who has schizophrenia. A condition that affects less than 1% of the population, so is it fair to punish the extreme majority for the less than 1%? Is it fair to deny all the other mental and physical illnesses that cannabis has been proven time and time again to help, such as depression and terminal illnesses like cancer for the ones who suffer from schizophrenia? I've seen first hand the effects of medicinal cannabis use on terminally ill patients. A family friend who was told by doctors that he had less than a year to live due to late stage cancer and prescribed him medicinal cannabis, he ended up seeing another decade. People who suffer from Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's, cannabis is proven to help. It relaxes the muscles.

The most dangerous drug in the world this year was alcohol. The safest, magic mushrooms. Whether you like it or not, the fact is that cannabis has never been named the direct result of any death in the history of ever. Historians have traced its usage back to Alexander the Great, many Roman emperors and even the Egyptian Pharaohs. It is mentioned in the bible at least 3 times, named the "Holy Leaf". Yet no records anywhere have ever linked any death with cannabis. It's impossible to overdose on, impossible to get addicted to (note the difference between dependency and addiction), and it has no proven long term health effects. The only effects it has is that it decreases focus and makes you a little paranoid. As long as you drive while intoxicated, there is zero evidence to suggest you will face anything negative.

Decriminalization is a very flawed concept. The only thing that is decriminalized is smoking it. Growing it, possessing it and selling it are still illegal and can result in jail time for first offenders in the USA.

If you want to spend $22 000 a year to throw someone in jail for a minimum of 2 years with rapists and murderers because they had a single joint in their hand then good for you, but you'll understand why other tax payers don't want their money going to such ridiculous things. You'll understand why others think that their money is much better used elsewhere, such as new hospital equipment or better pay for teachers or nurses, or anything else.

The industry in Canada is expected to grow to an industry worth over 4.5 billion dollars annually in under 5 years. How one can see any economical problems is totally beyond me.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 01, 2017, 01:01:51 pm
There isn't a black market for tobacco and alcohol. Well, not legal alcohol and tobacco.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say there isn't a black market for 'legal alcohol and tobacco'. If it's on the black market it cannot be legal. Tax something and you create a black market, and for tobacco it's worth perhaps as much as $3 billion in Ontario alone.


There has been no evidence to support the direct link between cannabis use and the creation of mental illnesses.
Yes there has been.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx


The most dangerous drug in the world this year was alcohol. The safest, magic mushrooms. Whether you like it or not, the fact is that cannabis has never been named the direct result of any death in the history of ever.
You're right, it hasn't killed anyone, just given a lot of people irreversible mental illness and who now spend their time on a locked ward in a mental hospital. I'd prefer death to that.
 
The industry in Canada is expected to grow to an industry worth over 4.5 billion dollars annually in under 5 years. How one can see any economical problems is totally beyond me.
The tobacco industry also paid a lot in taxation. How much is Canada going to need to spend expanding mental health facilities though? How many taxpayers will be lost to the locked wards of mental hospitals? Sounds like it could be a false economy.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 01, 2017, 04:13:06 pm
The ol' "weed cures cancer so it should be legal for me to smoke" argument
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: joer5835 on September 01, 2017, 05:14:55 pm
Tax something and you create a black market
The opposite is also true. Keep something illegal and you have an ever bigger black market. One which can prove to be a lot more dangerous.


http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx
[...]
You're right, it hasn't killed anyone, just given a lot of people irreversible mental illness and who now spend their time on a locked ward in a mental hospital. I'd prefer death to that.
To me it seems that research has found that it -could- give you depression or other mental illnesses. It could, there is never a guarantee in these things. There's drugs which you can freely get in pharmacies that can do the same. Are there any figures for how many people are currently in mental institutions because of mental illinesses directly caused by cannabis use?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 01, 2017, 05:19:18 pm
Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and never has been, so your argument falls. M

Pretty sure they passed legislation about proffessional weed growing. Please, Vincenzo and I know the politics of our own country.
Already in Febuary of this year parliament passed a law that would enable legal production and selling to coffeeshops. A simple google search would've helped you. You're a bit too aggressive without backing up statements.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 01, 2017, 06:57:29 pm
Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and never has been, so your argument falls. M

Pretty sure they passed legislation about proffessional weed growing. Please, Vincenzo and I know the politics of our own country.
Already in Febuary of this year parliament passed a law that would enable legal production and selling to coffeeshops. A simple google search would've helped you. You're a bit too aggressive without backing up statements.

Well I double-checked the government's own website before I posted that, which confirmed what I thought to be the case which is that cannabis is not legal, merely decriminalised for personal use:
https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/toleration-policy-regarding-soft-drugs-and-coffee-shops

So either the Dutch government is wrong, or you do not in fact know the politics of your own country.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 08:43:30 pm
Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and never has been, so your argument falls. M

Pretty sure they passed legislation about proffessional weed growing. Please, Vincenzo and I know the politics of our own country.
Already in Febuary of this year parliament passed a law that would enable legal production and selling to coffeeshops. A simple google search would've helped you. You're a bit too aggressive without backing up statements.
*smack*

Well I double-checked the government's own website before I posted that, which confirmed what I thought to be the case which is that cannabis is not legal, merely decriminalised for personal use:
https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/toleration-policy-regarding-soft-drugs-and-coffee-shops

So either the Dutch government is wrong, or you do not in fact know the politics of your own country.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 01, 2017, 10:15:35 pm
Steven you again make broad sweeping statements without having done the research.
Excessive marijuana use does have links to schizophrenia. That being said, it's usually able to be brought completely under control if the user stops and has antipsychotics to help. They are NOT locked away for life (that essentially never happens with mental disorders anyway).

As long as they're still tough on it with regards to minors, driving etc then I don't see any issues with it. Alcohol is infinitely more dangerous than marijuana both in terms of acute effects (violence, toxicity, RTAs) and long term (cirrhosis, hepatocellularcarcinomas, dementia). So long as there's a genuine plan in place to introduce it properly and to educate the public about it then I see it as a positive move, as do many health professionals, most notably the people who actually carry out the research on it.

Considering that (especially in the US but elsewhere as well) having a criminal record massively reduces your potential to achieve and contribute to society, removing the stigma associated with marijuana will be hugely beneficial. Typically, the people who abuse substances including marijuana, alcohol and other drugs already come from more deprived backgrounds, and getting a criminal record on top just perpetuates the inequality. Give these people the help they need instead of locking them up, which just makes them more likely to join gangs, get radicalised etc.
Having grown up in the Netherlands, many of my friends tried marijuana, some tried other things too. The drinking age was 16 and there was never a big deal about either. Nobody got blackout drunk, nobody committed crimes, it worked just fine. Nobody became regular users, nobody developed schizophrenia. Instead of having to get an elder brother to buy you a couple bottles of vodka and ending up in A&E with alcohol poisoning, there was a much more healthy and relaxed attitude.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 02, 2017, 01:13:05 am
I did not say that people are 'locked away for life'. It is the case however that their stay in mental hospitals can be quite prolonged. Since you mention it the book 'Henry's Demons' by Patrick Cockburn is very good on the subject of cannabis and schizophrenia. Henry Cockburn spent the best part of eight years in a mental hospital. Your friends got lucky, others don't.

If you accept cannabis use leads to significantly higher risk of mental illness, which most legalisers now do including their main cheerleader Professor David Nutt who concedes users are '2.6 times more likely to have a psychotic-like experience than non-smokers', then you must also accept that the best policy is the one which makes usage rates as low as possible.

The evidence would suggest this is not decriminalisation, and certainly not legalisation either. In places that have followed that path usage rates have increased. Contrast that with places like South Korea and Japan which rigorously enforce their anti-drug laws and have among the lowest rates in the developed world.

I don't know why you're so worried about criminal records and cannabis since the drug is already largely decriminalised in most places. In the UK only around 1 in 4 people caught with possession are actually charged.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Doer on September 02, 2017, 01:22:24 am
Keeping it illegal doesn't mean keeping it out of peoples hands. People are going to do what they want regardless of the laws. Police very rarely give people shit for smoking weed around here (unless it's in public and people are complaining) and there is very little stigma about it where I live and the surrounding areas because people know it's extremely petty to get upset over someone just trying to relax and smoke a bit of weed. I live in Canada and it's easier to buy weed off someone like your neighbour then it is to get a pack of cigarettes.

Either way if it's illegal - or not, people are still going to use it no matter what. If it's legalized, at least the taxation from it's sale will get put back into the Canadian infrastructure in terms of paying for schools, roads etc and most of all add more jobs to the economy. Keeping it illegal just takes up resources in the court system - law enforcement - incarceration - and ruins peoples lives over nothing but a bit of pot.

There is far worse things that are legal, like Alcohol that are responsible for an insane amount of deaths and car accidents each year. I know many, many, many weed smokers including my own father that is 65 years of age and he does not have a mental illness and is one of the most healthiest 65 year olds I know. Not a single person I know that is older has developed a mental illness from smoking weed, but that is not to say that the research is incorrect or it could happen. Smoking weed isn't for everyone.

In my opinion & conclusion, it would be absolutely stupid and a huge missed opportunity for the Canadian economy and the well being of thousands and thousands of pot-smoking Canadians in general if it is not legalized.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 02, 2017, 02:08:29 pm
Can we not start dividing people up into "legalisers" vs whoever else please? This really doesn't have to be polarising at all, it's just a discussion about what people think are pros and cons.
I hate how everything vaguely political has become so extreme that there has to be an "Us" and "Them" aspect to it. I'm not a pothead who doesn't want to worry about the police; I've literally never smoked weed in my life. It's simply my point of view that we do more harm than good in keeping it illegal in making it impossible to regulate, in making people not come forward about it, in preventing people who use it to cope from coming forward and receiving help, not to mention the massive industry behind it.

I appreciate what you're saying about Japan and South Korea, but they're completely different cultures; their strict anti-drug laws are a consequence of that, not a causative factor. Far more people die of suicide and alcohol abuse among working, career oriented individuals is exceptionally high. In the West alcohol abuse and drug use tends to be more among the lower socioeconomic groups. There's a massive stigma there about mental health and drug use which has created an incredibly unhealthy environment, even without drugs.

As for mental health, having a "psychotic-like experience" is not at all the same as being diagnosed with a psychosis like schizophrenia. In the majority of cases the episodes only occur when using cannabis and are self limiting. It's almost like it's a substance which alters your mental state. Huh, who'd have thought.
For long term effects, the studies quoted by the RCPsych tend to look at use in children, which I am completely against of course. Alcohol in young children also fucks you up for life developmentally and educationally (although in marijuana use the educational link isn't proved to be due to the drug, it seems more likely it's the type of individual who uses marijuana).

It's really quite interesting, because if alcohol was a new substance which had the same wealth of research it does now, spirits would never have been legal. There just needs to be an in between point for both marijuana and alcohol where they are legal, but the potency is controlled. People do far more damage to themselves with hard alcohol than even the high THC skunk you get nowadays. At least there are anti-psychotics, whereas there's only so many livers to go around for those dependent on alcohol.

I don't know about the 1/4 figure or where you got that, but that's because the police give several warnings first. It's presumably based on incidents (rather than people), in which case that makes sense as you get 2-3 warnings before anything else happens. Many will learn after getting caught the first couple times and won't get caught again.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Windflower on September 02, 2017, 05:53:35 pm
stoner boizz
(https://i.gyazo.com/7dc93bf93053ad5620841d1107bfa660.png)
[close]

But seriously I don't think legalizing Cannabis would be good for our country. Youth are going to be using cannabis WAY more than any other time in Canada.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 02, 2017, 05:59:44 pm
Can we not start dividing people up into "legalisers" vs whoever else please? This really doesn't have to be polarising at all, it's just a discussion about what people think are pros and cons.
We are talking about whether Canada is right to legalise cannabis, so by definition it is polarising. You polarised yourself by voting in the poll!

I appreciate what you're saying about Japan and South Korea, but they're completely different cultures; their strict anti-drug laws are a consequence of that, not a causative factor.
Total rubbish. Japan had a massive problem with amphetamines in the 1940s and 1950s, which is where its tough drug laws originate from.
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1957-01-01_3_page003.html

Similarly South Korea had high rates of cannabis and barbiturates addiction in the 1960s and 1970s. Their different cultures are a consequence of their drug laws. They got tough on drugs, and yes a lot of people went to prison to begin with, but they now have among the lowest rates of drug use on the planet. At the same time the West went soft, went down the path of decriminalisation and now has among the highest usage rates.

The idea we're tough on cannabis is a joke. As early as 1973 the British government was telling local magistrates not to send those caught in possession of cannabis to prison.

As for mental health, having a "psychotic-like experience" is not at all the same as being diagnosed with a psychosis like schizophrenia. In the majority of cases the episodes only occur when using cannabis and are self limiting. It's almost like it's a substance which alters your mental state. Huh, who'd have thought.
I never said it was 'like schizophrenia', which is not the only mental disorder that can arise from smoking cannabis. There's plenty more, including violent behaviour:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-brain/201603/marijuana-use-increases-violent-behavior

I find it interesting that with just about *every* terrorist outrage that has been committed in the last 20 years, the perpetrators have been found to have been cannabis users.

I don't know about the 1/4 figure or where you got that, but that's because the police give several warnings first. It's presumably based on incidents (rather than people), in which case that makes sense as you get 2-3 warnings before anything else happens. Many will learn after getting caught the first couple times and won't get caught again.
It's from the latest police figures, see here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/cannabis-arrests-charges-fall-police-giving-up-drug-policy-uk-a7206036.html

Yeah, they'll learn the UK has a soft touch and they can carry on smoking it for as long as they like, safe in the knowledge that if they do get mentally ill the UK taxpayer will pay for their treatment.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 03, 2017, 04:22:40 pm
Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands and never has been, so your argument falls. M

Pretty sure they passed legislation about proffessional weed growing. Please, Vincenzo and I know the politics of our own country.
Already in Febuary of this year parliament passed a law that would enable legal production and selling to coffeeshops. A simple google search would've helped you. You're a bit too aggressive without backing up statements.

Well I double-checked the government's own website before I posted that, which confirmed what I thought to be the case which is that cannabis is not legal, merely decriminalised for personal use:
https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/toleration-policy-regarding-soft-drugs-and-coffee-shops

So either the Dutch government is wrong, or you do not in fact know the politics of your own country.

That's the point though, both the government website and myself are right. Parliament passed a law proposal, which means it's going to be signed into law eventually anyway. It still, however, needs to be passed by the constitutional court and the Senate, both of which are practically a formality. The government hasn't updated it on their website because it hasn't been officially legalised yet.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 03, 2017, 06:40:32 pm
It is illegal since we're talking about a bill which has not yet passed. And I may be wrong on this but from what I can see that bill isn't legalisation, merely an extension of decriminalisation to commerical growers of cannabis. If it passed it would not make it legal, merely further decriminalised.

I've not seen the Canadian legislation (I don't think its been published yet, and it doesn't help that dimwit Trudeau is confusing decriminalisation with legalisation when he makes pronouncements on it), but the politicians are claiming it will be fully legalised for commercial sale, which includes advertising, no limits on possession etc and treated much the same way as tobacco. This is not what the Dutch are proposing.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 03, 2017, 07:37:48 pm
It's been advertised by all the media as legalisation. My bad if I've gotten te terms wrong.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 03, 2017, 08:02:24 pm
The legality of weed (or better put, the lack thereof) is one of the most confusing part of Dutch law and it's kept confusing on purpose. De facto, using, buying and selling weed as a coffeeshop are all completely legal. The difference between decriminizalition and legalisation is razor-thin in the Netherlands, and countering the benefits of the de facto legalization of weed with 'technically not legal' is a weak argument. The main reason it's not legal is because everybody thinks it's legal.

Quote
it still, however, needs to be passed by the constitutional court and the Senate, both of which are practically a formality.

Calling the Dutch Senate (First Chamber of the States-General, damnit!) a formality is nonsense. Laws have been struck down or left abandoned after no majority could be reached countless of times. And we don't have a constitutional court - in fact, we have a ban on the concept of constitutional review by judges, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 03, 2017, 09:40:15 pm
Cannabis is not legal, it's decriminalised for personal use. This isn't a 'technicality' and it's not a 'razor-thin' difference when you consider many people are arrested for growing more than 5 cannabis plants at any one time, or for possessing more than 5 grams. It's not commercially advertised, you can't buy it over the counter, possession is still strictly controlled, and coffee shops have to buy their stock from criminals. Ergo it's not legal.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 03, 2017, 11:40:53 pm
Quote
It's not commercially advertised

Neither is tabacco.

Quote
you can't buy it over the counter

What do you mean by this?

Quote
possession is still strictly controlled

It really isn't.
Quote
and coffee shops have to buy their stock from criminals

Which is why we should legalize it.

If cannabis is legalized, nothing in effect will change for users as it will still be subject to rules on possession and personal use, just like it is now.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Windflower on September 03, 2017, 11:59:29 pm
Neither is tabacco.
TABACCO, OH PUTAINE OH JE SUIS ETOILE
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 04, 2017, 01:11:44 am
A little bit of history about why cannabis is illegal in the first place.

It all started with Harry J Anslinger, the FBI director during the 1930's. When the FBI was in danger of being defunded, he needed a new drug to scare the public with. He associated Mexicans (who were not well liked at the time) with cannabis (this is where the term marijuana comes from). He testified before congress saying that "the drug causes violence and death in its users". In 1937, the first anti cannabis laws were passed by congress. Making your first time getting caught with a single joint punishable by 2 to 10 years incarceration.

Fast forward to the Nixon era, there was a huge push by the American people to legalize cannabis, Nixon being Nixon vetoed it. One of his top advisers, a man named John Ehrlichman, said in 1994; "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana, and the black with heroin, and by criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did".

Scientists knew cannabis didn't cause death or violence, it was proven in the 1940's. So, basically, the whole reason cannabis is illegal in the first place is due to a racist idea to gain money, and the reason it's still illegal is because a power hungry Nixon wanted to eliminate his political rivals and minorities.

I'm not making a word of this up. Cannabis was totally legal and fine to use in the US and around the world well and truly into the mid 1930's. It was a racist, expensive and jealous idea made by corrupt, power hungry, lying government officials.

Regardless of what people's opinions are on the legalization of the drug now, knowing that the only reason cannabis is illegal right now is because of racism and political rivalry, how can you defend its criminalization in the first place?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 04, 2017, 01:27:00 am
How to spot a pot head ^
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 04, 2017, 01:59:19 am
I wish we could ban people from posting useless instigation which doesn't contribute to topics at all.



Steven many countries had problems with drugs, ranging from the Opium Wars to Legal Highs. Amphetamines post war were an issue in multiple countries, not just Japan. Just because putting draconian penalties on using a substance can remove it from the population does not mean that it's the right thing to do.

If you want a recent example, Portugal decriminalised the possession of drugs recently due to having a massive problem with them. In doing so, they've been able to help users of all substances massively, slash rates of disease and lower crime (including theft etc, even ignoring directly drug related crime). Deaths in the UK from drug use now sit over 10 times higher than Portugal and usage has decreased in Portugal, overall and in 15-24s where UK hospital admissions increased ~50% in the same time frame. Rates of continued drug use also decreased in Portugal since 2001.

I'm surprised, considering that I thought you'd rather have a smaller, more efficient government, that you're not in favour of decriminalisation, given the massive costs related to policing and dealing with late health presentations associated with illegal drug use.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 04, 2017, 02:00:48 am
Assuming every word of that is true, which I doubt, that still doesn't explain why 1. It's illegal in other countries and 2. has proven to be detrimental to your health @George

Tiki, I hope you're not referring to Steven in any way in your first sentence.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 04, 2017, 02:55:14 am
Assuming every word of that is true, which I doubt, that still doesn't explain why 1. It's illegal in other countries and 2. has proven to be detrimental to your health @George

Tiki, I hope you're not referring to Steven in any way in your first sentence.
i think he was referring to my post xd
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 04, 2017, 05:27:07 am
How to spot a pot head ^

Not even. Tried pot a few times, didn't really like it so I stopped. But in those few times, in fact the first time, I realized that everything I was taught in school was a lie, a scare tactic.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 04, 2017, 03:25:38 pm
Quote
It's not commercially advertised
Neither is tabacco.
Which shows how stupid it is to allow cannabis to be advertised freely, as has been done in the US and as planned to do in Canada.

Quote
you can't buy it over the counter
What do you mean by this?
That you can't buy it over the counter in a shop like you can tobacco or alcohol.

Quote
possession is still strictly controlled
It really isn't.
Herbal cannabis was the most seized drug in the Netherlands in 2015, with cocaine in second place. Cannabis resin was the third most seized. Clearly it is strictly controlled.

@Tiki, the Portuguese example is hotly debated and it depends on what figures you go on. It's largely agreed that since decriminalisation drug use is up, as are rates of homicide despite a wider European trend of sharp reductions. There are also higher rates of petty theft (unsurprising, if you get more addicts you'll get more small crime as people find ways to pay for their drugs). On the flip side drug deaths and HIV infection rates are down. It's a mixed picture and pretty far from the paradise that many legalisers portray it as:
https://fullfact.org/news/what-effect-has-decriminalising-drugs-had-portugal/

I'd also strongly disagree with you over how radical the Portuguese experiment was, because in actual fact Portugal had long de facto decriminalised drug use and the 2001 law merely codified what was already happening on the ground. See second paragraph on page 9 here: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/Laqueur_%282014%29_-_Uses_and_Abuses_of_Drug_Decriminalization_in_Portugal_-_LSI.pdf

I'm in favour of strict, enforced drug laws especially with cannabis. The links to mental illness cannot be ignored, especially in young people where the risks are even higher due to effects on brain development. In most European countries the mean age of first use of cannabis is around 15-16. I can't see how legalisation or further decriminalisation helps anybody if the aim is to reduce usage rates. The evidence would suggest the tough approaches of Japan and South Korea are the best at doing that.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 04, 2017, 06:36:00 pm
so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Raad van State. perhaps a bad translation on my part.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 06, 2017, 05:05:03 pm
You buy and sell it over the counter. How do you think coffeeshops work?

Raad van State doesn't even consist of judges. It's a pretty useless institution anyway.

Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 06, 2017, 06:44:38 pm
You buy and sell it over the counter. How do you think coffeeshops work?

Raad van State doesn't even consist of judges. It's a pretty useless institution anyway.

Obviously I didn't mean you *literally* buy it over a counter, more pointing out that's it's clearly not the same shopping experience as buying a bottle of wine.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 06, 2017, 07:05:14 pm
Tell me how you think the procedure works. I'm very curious.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 06, 2017, 08:11:59 pm
Depends on the coffee shop as it differs from place to place-some keep well within the law, others skirt close to its boundary. As a general rule most don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis (they're not allowed to under Dutch law, though some fly the Rastafarian flag as a nod and wink and so on) and you have to ask specifically for the menu. They're also only allowed to sell you 5g or less. I don't quite know what you're getting at because this is obviously a strictly controlled product.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 07, 2017, 10:04:16 am
There's a difference between a law that is enforced and a law that isn't. The Dutch Government prohibits the recreational use of cannabis, as does the Government of Canada. But I could walk down the Main Street of Vancouver smoking a joint  in front of RCMP and nothing would happen. Most police in Canada, or in Vancouver at least, tend not to care, despite the law prohibiting cannabis use. The Dutch Police I've heard is similar. Unless you're selling or trafficking large quantities, the police will not really step in. There are laws surrounding how much you have to be in possession of before you can actually be charged as well. In every jurisdiction around Australia, you must have a minimum of 50 or 30g depending on the state to actually have any form of charge pressed against you. Anything above 500g is a trafficking quantity carrying rather severe criminal penalties.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 07, 2017, 11:23:09 am
Quote
As a general rule most don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis

Good one.

Quote
you have to ask specifically for the menu

....No? You go in, say 'I would like x grams of y brand' and you get it. You pay. Or you ask 'What do you have', or you just look at the signs with all the different brands they have. The procedure would be 0% different if everything was legalized because legalization doesn't mean it cannot be strictly controlled. You seem to think that legalization means it becomes like buying a carton of milk.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 07, 2017, 11:28:20 am
Wait... it doesn't?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 07, 2017, 04:51:29 pm
If it was properly legalised and controlled it would actually be harder to get cannabis...

And Steven yeah you clearly have no idea what you're on about.
I've literally never seen a Rastafarian flag. Usually it's Jamaican, pictures of Bob Marley and so on. They're pretty obvious with the word Coffeeshop usually in glaring neon or bright colours. They have to be obvious to attract all the tourists after all. Nobody is the least bit abashed about selling cannabis, they're only discrete about actually acquiring the cannabis in the first place. They're perfectly happy to give recommendations, which will give you different experiences etc.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 07, 2017, 05:33:22 pm
They don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis. Obviously if you go in you'll see weed dispensers or whatever but they don't advertise 'buy weed here'. Obviously coffee shops differ from place to place but that's a fairly well enforced rule.

If it was properly legalised and controlled it would actually be harder to get cannabis...

How does that work? In the US you can order it online and get it shipped straight to your door.

And Steven yeah you clearly have no idea what you're on about.
I've literally never seen a Rastafarian flag.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coffeeshopdirect.com%2FShopPics%2FOudeKerk.jpg&hash=2c58a5a7e0d78a4d1a1ad5e0cfd1df22296b61f0)
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Carolus. on September 12, 2017, 02:41:06 pm
So the Government of Canada is set to legalize cannabis by July 1st next year. The legalization is meant to eliminate the black market, create 15 000 new jobs, boost the economy, decrease crime and allow for the production of hemp as an alternative to cotton, paper and so on.

The Task Force comprised of lawyers, police officers, politicians, leading  doctors and scientists decided unanimously that the legalization of cannabis would be a good thing, the major concerns being for the youth in the development of the brain.

What is your opinion on the push by Trudeau's party that has overwhelming support?

Just no. I've tried it myself several times, nothing special imo. Seen what it does to ppl, just becomes sacks of useless shit sitting around like a bag of potatoes but less intelligent even though they think themselves on top of things.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 12, 2017, 06:23:39 pm
So the Government of Canada is set to legalize cannabis by July 1st next year. The legalization is meant to eliminate the black market, create 15 000 new jobs, boost the economy, decrease crime and allow for the production of hemp as an alternative to cotton, paper and so on.

The Task Force comprised of lawyers, police officers, politicians, leading  doctors and scientists decided unanimously that the legalization of cannabis would be a good thing, the major concerns being for the youth in the development of the brain.

What is your opinion on the push by Trudeau's party that has overwhelming support?

Just no. I've tried it myself several times, nothing special imo. Seen what it does to ppl, just becomes sacks of useless shit sitting around like a bag of potatoes but less intelligent even though they think themselves on top of things.

In Australia, its quite the opposite in terms of intellect. The top achievers in Australian high schools regularly use cannabis. The same I'm sure goes for Canada, the USA and every other country in the world. There is absolutely zero evidence to support the statement that cannabis effects your intellect. In fact there is evidence supporting the contrary. Cannabis activates the nerves and cells in your brain that make you pay attention to detail. It slows reaction speed and CAN decrease focus (I say can because it has the opposite effect on some). Like all other drugs, it depends on the person using it as to what will happen. Like everything in this world it has its bad and good parts. The only time I've ever seen anyone have a negative impact while on cannabis is when the person had schizophrenia. A behavioural condition that affects less than 1% of the population. Is it worth it to punish the 99.5% for the .5%? Is it worth it to punish the millions of cancer and terminal illness patients for the .5%?

Like you have a common over the counter cough syrup for example, which contains a drug called dextromethorphan, discount ketamine. Another over the counter cough syrup contains codeine, one of the most addictive and damaging drugs you can get. Why aren't these illegal if the goal really is to preserve people's health?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 12, 2017, 06:51:00 pm
So the Government of Canada is set to legalize cannabis by July 1st next year. The legalization is meant to eliminate the black market, create 15 000 new jobs, boost the economy, decrease crime and allow for the production of hemp as an alternative to cotton, paper and so on.

The Task Force comprised of lawyers, police officers, politicians, leading  doctors and scientists decided unanimously that the legalization of cannabis would be a good thing, the major concerns being for the youth in the development of the brain.

What is your opinion on the push by Trudeau's party that has overwhelming support?

Just no. I've tried it myself several times, nothing special imo. Seen what it does to ppl, just becomes sacks of useless shit sitting around like a bag of potatoes but less intelligent even though they think themselves on top of things.

In Australia, its quite the opposite in terms of intellect. The top achievers in Australian high schools regularly use cannabis. The same I'm sure goes for Canada, the USA and every other country in the world. There is absolutely zero evidence to support the statement that cannabis effects your intellect. In fact there is evidence supporting the contrary. Cannabis activates the nerves and cells in your brain that make you pay attention to detail. It slows reaction speed and CAN decrease focus (I say can because it has the opposite effect on some). Like all other drugs, it depends on the person using it as to what will happen. Like everything in this world it has its bad and good parts. The only time I've ever seen anyone have a negative impact while on cannabis is when the person had schizophrenia. A behavioural condition that affects less than 1% of the population. Is it worth it to punish the 99.5% for the .5%? Is it worth it to punish the millions of cancer and terminal illness patients for the .5%?

Like you have a common over the counter cough syrup for example, which contains a drug called dextromethorphan, discount ketamine. Another over the counter cough syrup contains codeine, one of the most addictive and damaging drugs you can get. Why aren't these illegal if the goal really is to preserve people's health?
im actually curious can you post your sources that say the top achieves use cannabis
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 12, 2017, 07:25:45 pm
Not just in Australia.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 12, 2017, 08:31:48 pm
I don't know of any sources. They're my personal friends. Met them at parties smoking dope. Some of the loosest people I know in terms of cannabis and yet they're top in the state and the country for their overall grades. In Australia we have what's called the ATAR, the Australian Tertiary Admissions Ranking. Not a mark, but a ranking system to find out how you compare against other students. Kind of like the LSAT for law schools in Europe and North America. You can find the ATAR results either online or on most newspapers. For example, the top in the state for English in the 2014 school year, my good friend Toby Wilcox, is one of the biggest pot heads I know. A good friend of mine as well, who is currently doing his high school diploma, is the captain of the debating team that has won the national championships 3 years in a row. Although he hasn't attained his marks yet, his trial marks put his ATAR score in the top .5% of the state. This guy has done every drug I know of apart from heroin and methamphetamine. He's done LSD, speed, mdma, ecstasy, cocaine, dom, shrooms, dmt, dxm, codeine, ketamine etc etc. And cannabis of course. He just turned 18 about a week ago and has been doing these drugs since he was 15 years old. He is living proof that drugs do not cause any form of serious harm to the intellect of young adults. He is living proof that drugs in fact cause the opposite. If any such research were to be done on the effects of cannabis in the young mind, one of the biggest problems that anti drug people would face would be people like my friend who have excelled in school  through drug use.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 08:40:29 pm
Did I seriously just read you basically supporting the fact that a 15 year old kid did cocaine? You need sources to back up your claims. Just because you're friends happened to do drugs that doesn't mean it hasn't affected others. I'm not arguing for one or the other but please put forward some better evidence than that.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 12, 2017, 08:52:39 pm
If we're going with empirical evidence, my best friends grades declined after he started smoking weed habitually. Once he stopped (as it's normally not addictive) his grades, and general mental function, greatly improved.
In residence, it was drug users who had diminished academic performance, and the ones who didn't were on average more successful.
This debate is a bit more complicated than just "weed helps your education"
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 12, 2017, 08:57:30 pm
If we're going with empirical evidence, my best friends grades declined after he started smoking weed habitually. Once he stopped (as it's normally not addictive) his grades, and general mental function, greatly improved.
In residence, it was drug users who had diminished academic performance, and the ones who didn't were on average more successful.
This debate is a bit more complicated than just "weed helps your education"
same thing happened to my friend? Weird
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 12, 2017, 08:59:52 pm
I don't know of any sources. They're my personal friends. Met them at parties smoking dope. Some of the loosest people I know in terms of cannabis and yet they're top in the state and the country for their overall grades. In Australia we have what's called the ATAR, the Australian Tertiary Admissions Ranking. Not a mark, but a ranking system to find out how you compare against other students. Kind of like the LSAT for law schools in Europe and North America. You can find the ATAR results either online or on most newspapers. For example, the top in the state for English in the 2014 school year, my good friend Toby Wilcox, is one of the biggest pot heads I know. A good friend of mine as well, who is currently doing his high school diploma, is the captain of the debating team that has won the national championships 3 years in a row. Although he hasn't attained his marks yet, his trial marks put his ATAR score in the top .5% of the state. This guy has done every drug I know of apart from heroin and methamphetamine. He's done LSD, speed, mdma, ecstasy, cocaine, dom, shrooms, dmt, dxm, codeine, ketamine etc etc. And cannabis of course. He just turned 18 about a week ago and has been doing these drugs since he was 15 years old. He is living proof that drugs do not cause any form of serious harm to the intellect of young adults. He is living proof that drugs in fact cause the opposite. If any such research were to be done on the effects of cannabis in the young mind, one of the biggest problems that anti drug people would face would be people like my friend who have excelled in school  through drug use.

Lol, and Gorilla Munch cereal cures AIDS.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 09:01:54 pm
My friend once wore odd socks and he got top marks on a test.

Come on George can we please remember that correlation is not causation
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 12, 2017, 09:11:05 pm
Come on George can we please remember that correlation is not causation

Well, that is one of the foundations of the scientific method. I think the message here is more 'anecdotal evidence means very little'.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 09:19:45 pm
Come on George can we please remember that correlation is not causation

Well, that is one of the foundations of the scientific method. I think the message here is more 'anecdotal evidence means very little'.
I mean it's centred around statistics so it does apply
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on September 12, 2017, 10:18:35 pm
Spoiler
I don't know of any sources. They're my personal friends. Met them at parties smoking dope. Some of the loosest people I know in terms of cannabis and yet they're top in the state and the country for their overall grades. In Australia we have what's called the ATAR, the Australian Tertiary Admissions Ranking. Not a mark, but a ranking system to find out how you compare against other students. Kind of like the LSAT for law schools in Europe and North America. You can find the ATAR results either online or on most newspapers. For example, the top in the state for English in the 2014 school year, my good friend Toby Wilcox, is one of the biggest pot heads I know. A good friend of mine as well, who is currently doing his high school diploma, is the captain of the debating team that has won the national championships 3 years in a row. Although he hasn't attained his marks yet, his trial marks put his ATAR score in the top .5% of the state. This guy has done every drug I know of apart from heroin and methamphetamine. He's done LSD, speed, mdma, ecstasy, cocaine, dom, shrooms, dmt, dxm, codeine, ketamine etc etc. And cannabis of course. He just turned 18 about a week ago and has been doing these drugs since he was 15 years old. He is living proof that drugs do not cause any form of serious harm to the intellect of young adults. He is living proof that drugs in fact cause the opposite. If any such research were to be done on the effects of cannabis in the young mind, one of the biggest problems that anti drug people would face would be people like my friend who have excelled in school  through drug use.
[close]

I'm not sure what kind of modafinil weed your friends are smoking over in Australia, but my experience is a little more stereotypical. From what I've seen in the UK, pot smokers in my high school and their friends were always docile and scored the lowest in terms of academic achievement. The majority of the pot crew in my year at high school didn't even show up to sit their final exams.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 13, 2017, 04:16:42 am
apparently gorilla munch cereal cures AIDS because I'm not lying. You can't take the word of the US Government on any form of drug use because of their previous studies on cannabis, most notably the Ronald Reagan cannabis research. No form of independent research can be conducted on it because the drug is illegal. Legalize it, and we will know the truth.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 05:07:40 am
apparently gorilla munch cereal cures AIDS because I'm not lying. You can't take the word of the US Government on any form of drug use because of their previous studies on cannabis, most notably the Ronald Reagan cannabis research. No form of independent research can be conducted on it because the drug is illegal. Legalize it, and we will know the truth.
Okay, so don't trust the government because they lie, and the way we'll find out whether something is dangerous or have a negative effect on society is to legalize it and then see if it works
I hope you don't go into policy
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Karth on September 13, 2017, 05:29:40 am
apparently gorilla munch cereal cures AIDS because I'm not lying. You can't take the word of the US Government on any form of drug use because of their previous studies on cannabis, most notably the Ronald Reagan cannabis research. No form of independent research can be conducted on it because the drug is illegal. Legalize it, and we will know the truth.
Considering our government is the gold standard for any drug research anywhere in the world... no, and it is legal here, and they have new studies.. from legal drug use research.  It doesnt make you smarter
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 13, 2017, 05:59:25 pm
Ok I just want to clarify that codeine is by no means a dangerous or highly addictive drug. Co-codamol is paracetamol with codeine which you can buy over the counter. If you take too many, you're far more likely to die of paracetamol overdose than respiratory arrest from the codeine. Morphine and diamorphine (heroin) are a very different story.

Carry on.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 13, 2017, 08:41:16 pm
I only see you guys arguying about whether it can or cannot cause damage. For me, the ratio and how much one needs to smoke in order to really risk likely brain damage is much more important. If cannabis turns out not to be more damaging than alcohol or tobacco, the discussion is over for me as drug policices should rely on damage and not tradition or whatever other excuse one could come up with...

And even if it is more damaging, there are good arguments for legalizing all drugs. From what I've seen so far cannabis is not comparable to tobacco or alcohol in terms of damage caused.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 09:54:13 pm
I only you guys arguying about whether it can or cannot cause damage. For me, the ratio and how much one needs to smoke in order to really risk likely brain damage is much more important. If cannabis turns out not to be more damaging than alcohol or tobacco, the discussion is over for me as drug policices should rely on damage and not tradition or whatever other excuse one could come up with...

And even if it is more damaging, there are good arguments for legalizing all drugs. From what I've seen so far cannabis is not comparable to tobacco or alcohol in terms of damage caused.
One of my core beliefs is believing in personal freedom and responsibility. However, that ends when someones life choices interfere with the personal property of someone else, and the side effects of most illegal drugs are always, in some way, damaging to individuals and society.
I fail to see any meritable reasons for the legalization of all drugs.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 13, 2017, 10:23:00 pm
Then it also should be illegal to drive a car, because that's an unnecessarily dangerous and polluting way of transport. Everybody should ride busses, take trains or cycle, otherwise they're both endangering my life and ruining societal health.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 10:38:45 pm
Then it also should be illegal to drive a car, because that's an unnecessarily dangerous and polluting way of transport. Everybody should ride busses, take trains or cycle, otherwise they're both endangering my life and ruining societal health.
Then, by your logic, everybody should have to pass a test and get a license to use drugs.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 13, 2017, 10:58:13 pm
No, because having a driver license does nothing to stop pollution and nearly all accidents are by licensed drivers anyway.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 11:28:35 pm
No, because having a driver license does nothing to stop pollution and nearly all accidents are by licensed drivers anyway.
And that's why there are pollution caps/limits for cars and repercussions/punishments for accidents. Besides, the important distinction is that driving is a privilege that you seek permission and pay for.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 14, 2017, 12:37:44 am
I only you guys arguying about whether it can or cannot cause damage. For me, the ratio and how much one needs to smoke in order to really risk likely brain damage is much more important. If cannabis turns out not to be more damaging than alcohol or tobacco, the discussion is over for me as drug policices should rely on damage and not tradition or whatever other excuse one could come up with...

And even if it is more damaging, there are good arguments for legalizing all drugs. From what I've seen so far cannabis is not comparable to tobacco or alcohol in terms of damage caused.
One of my core beliefs is believing in personal freedom and responsibility. However, that ends when someones life choices interfere with the personal property of someone else, and the side effects of most illegal drugs are always, in some way, damaging to individuals and society.
I fail to see any meritable reasons for the legalization of all drugs.

The reasons for legalizing drugs are more about helping addicts than the rest of society. One of my core beliefs is the priorization of health over money (I suppose your point was about health insurance whereas you'd save an enormous amount of money that you could put into health management if you were to get rid of the war on drugs.) I wouldn't  say that legalization would increase drug consumption (of hard drugs that easily cause huge damage), in fact I think it would solve many problems especially concerning health issues.

But that's another discussion. My point was about cannabis. Also there's not much freedom left
if you take everything out that interferes with other people
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 12:59:51 am
I agree with you that healthcare should focus on solving addiction and helping addicts rather than straight incarceration, too, but it's nonsensical to think that legalizing heroin will decrease heroin addiction or usage.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 14, 2017, 01:11:00 am
I agree with you that healthcare should focus on solving addiction and helping addicts rather than straight incarceration, too, but it's nonsensical to think that legalizing heroin will decrease heroin addiction or usage.

Non-increase /= decrease
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 14, 2017, 05:09:33 pm
apparently gorilla munch cereal cures AIDS because I'm not lying. You can't take the word of the US Government on any form of drug use because of their previous studies on cannabis, most notably the Ronald Reagan cannabis research. No form of independent research can be conducted on it because the drug is illegal. Legalize it, and we will know the truth.
Considering our government is the gold standard for any drug research anywhere in the world... no, and it is legal here, and they have new studies.. from legal drug use research.  It doesnt make you smarter

Karth, everyone knows the US Government lies constantly about drugs. The whole reason cannabis is illegal in the first place is because Harry J Anslinger ran a smear campaign on it based on nothing but lies in order not to get defunded. The lies were reported again with Richard Nixon and his aide John Ehrlichman. And Ronald Reagan too. It's hard to take anything the US Government says about drugs reliably because of what John Ehrlichman said in 1994. I think I already posted that quote in this thread.

The University of British Columbia, University of Saskatchewan and the University of York are the leading research facilities for cannabis. The Government of Canada allows researchers to do their own thing. Conduct their own studies and publish their results on their blogs. The US Government doesn't allow researchers to do that. And I know that because I know researchers at US universities who have worked on cannabis. It is all scripted and in the governments favour. Because of its current legal stance in the federal government, no proper research can be conducted in a proper laboratory.

California and Colorado are the only states with legal use of cannabis. And California hasn't had it legal for long enough to conduct any extensive research. Colorado though, the crime rate has dropped, tax revenue has gone up and thousands of new jobs have been created in a brand new industry. I can't see how this could possibly be a bad thing.

Look up a documentary called "The Union: The Business Behind Getting High". You will see what the experts on this field think about the illegal cannabis trade, and what legalization of it would mean.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 14, 2017, 05:56:13 pm
Not to mention the benefit on health it can have, there is quickly mounting evidnce it can support PTSD, Parkinson's and Cancer
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 14, 2017, 06:13:52 pm
"Many economists predict that the legalization of cocaine and heroin would reduce street prices by up to 60 percent, depending on if and how much they were taxed. According to an important study, price declines of that size would increase the number of occasional users of heroin by 54 percent and the number of occasional users of cocaine by 33 percent. The total quantity of heroin demanded would rise by an estimated 100 percent, and the quantity of cocaine demanded would rise by 50 percent." -my econ book
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 06:24:31 pm
*holds up Bat Sign with Stephen's name*
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 14, 2017, 09:32:54 pm
I've said all I need to. Clearly we (mostly) agree that drug use is a bad thing and the best policy is the one that reduces consumption, we just disagree about how to go about doing it. All I would say is that the evidence is on my side-those countries which have tough drugs laws *and* enforce them have significantly lower usage rates than those which have gone down the legalisation/decriminalisation path.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 15, 2017, 01:17:39 pm
"Many economists predict that the legalization of cocaine and heroin would reduce street prices by up to 60 percent, depending on if and how much they were taxed. According to an important study, price declines of that size would increase the number of occasional users of heroin by 54 percent and the number of occasional users of cocaine by 33 percent. The total quantity of heroin demanded would rise by an estimated 100 percent, and the quantity of cocaine demanded would rise by 50 percent." -my econ book
I mean existing dealers are still going to want the same fat profit margins and just get less risk as an added bonus. Either way, there's no limit to what tax you put on it. Considering that it's a massively unhealthy habit, I don't see why they wouldn't slap a massive tax on it, which also helps to pay for the damage that it already causes.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 15, 2017, 06:24:43 pm
I've said all I need to. Clearly we (mostly) agree that drug use is a bad thing and the best policy is the one that reduces consumption, we just disagree about how to go about doing it. All I would say is that the evidence is on my side-those countries which have tough drugs laws *and* enforce them have significantly lower usage rates than those which have gone down the legalisation/decriminalisation path.

The poll says the contrary.

No one is doubting that drug use is higher among countries that have legalized it. That's such an obvious fact. People are doubting whether or not having users of the drug is a bad thing. And doctors, lawyers, law enforcement professionals, scientists and historians pretty much unanimously agree that cannabis is a good thing, the positives of legalization of it would severely outweigh the negatives. That's fact.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 15, 2017, 07:08:29 pm
No one is doubting that drug use is higher among countries that have legalized it. That's such an obvious fact. People are doubting whether or not having users of the drug is a bad thing. And doctors, lawyers, law enforcement professionals, scientists and historians pretty much unanimously agree that cannabis is a good thing, the positives of legalization of it would severely outweigh the negatives. That's fact.

Sounds like you've been smoking something yourself.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 16, 2017, 11:21:58 am
No one is doubting that drug use is higher among countries that have legalized it. That's such an obvious fact. People are doubting whether or not having users of the drug is a bad thing. And doctors, lawyers, law enforcement professionals, scientists and historians pretty much unanimously agree that cannabis is a good thing, the positives of legalization of it would severely outweigh the negatives. That's fact.

Sounds like you've been smoking something yourself.

If only there was some other prohibited drug that was illegal and now isn't that we can compare cannabis to. Oh yeah, there is. Alcohol. In case people have forgotten, alcohol was illegal in the US. It gave rise to famous organized crime leaders such as Al Capone. The exact same fears for legalizing alcohol (which is now officially the worlds most dangerous drug might I add) exist now for cannabis. Would you have been pro the alcohol prohibition Steven? It's seriously the exact same thing, just a different drug.

Again I haven't smoked in some years. I tried it, didn't like it so I stopped. But I have zero care if others want to do it. They should be allowed to use one of the oldest plants in history without fear of punishment. They should be allowed to sit down, get high and watch shitty movies all night long without fear of punishment. They should be allowed to do this in their own house.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 16, 2017, 12:36:43 pm
"One of the oldest plants in history"
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 16, 2017, 01:32:23 pm
You can't compare alcohol to cannabis. The former has been deeply ingrained in society for most of human history, whereas cannabis is comparatively new and not as widespread. When something becomes that embedded banning it doesn't work. The point about rushing to make cannabis legal is that once you do so it's very difficult to turn the clock back.

Prohibition also wasn't that strict, it remained perfectly legal to drink alcohol during that period.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on September 16, 2017, 04:24:31 pm
People are doubting whether or not having users of the drug is a bad thing. And doctors, lawyers, law enforcement professionals, scientists and historians pretty much unanimously agree that cannabis is a good thing, the positives of legalization of it would severely outweigh the negatives. That's fact.

Whoa, let's slow down for a moment. Scientists notoriously rarely unanimously agree on pretty much anything, nevermind a topic as controversial and often morally driven such as drug use. Hell, they can't even find common ground when debating climate change (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#6d8b8704c7c2), which is of course a far more researched and objective topic of study.

I mean, it's pretty ludicrous to state that medical professionals and scientists would unanimously agree that the legalization of marijuana would be more or less a good thing given studies like this (http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(13)00502-7/abstract) are knocking about.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 16, 2017, 06:37:26 pm
Oh you figured out how to format links oooo i'm jealous
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on September 16, 2017, 06:45:42 pm
Don't get too excited, it decides when it wants to work.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 16, 2017, 07:12:34 pm
Don't get too excited, it decides when it wants to work.
:(
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 16, 2017, 07:22:16 pm
People are doubting whether or not having users of the drug is a bad thing. And doctors, lawyers, law enforcement professionals, scientists and historians pretty much unanimously agree that cannabis is a good thing, the positives of legalization of it would severely outweigh the negatives. That's fact.

Whoa, let's slow down for a moment. Scientists notoriously rarely unanimously agree on pretty much anything, nevermind a topic as controversial and often morally driven such as drug use. Hell, they can't even find common ground when debating climate change (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#6d8b8704c7c2), which is of course a far more researched and objective topic of study.

I mean, it's pretty ludicrous to state that medical professionals and scientists would unanimously agree that the legalization of marijuana would be more or less a good thing given studies like this (http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(13)00502-7/abstract) are knocking about.

As in the Task Force set up by the Government of Canada which comprised of scientists, medical professionals, law enforcement officials and lawyers.

And no, cannabis is as old if not older than alcohol lmao. Both are mentioned in the bible (hemp is referred to as the "Holy Leaf" in Adam and Eve). Alexander the Great and many people of his time had cannabis steam baths, Herodotus recorded it. Cannabis was legal in the US well into the 1930's. It is very much ingrained into our culture. It has been used countless times by people in western, Arab and Asian cultures for thousands of years. In the Old Testament (the Jewish version of the bible) it is referred to as "kaneh bosm" which translates to cannabis, and Yahweh was very pro kaneh bosm). We have proof of that. That's not debatable.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 16, 2017, 09:00:07 pm
The old testemant isn't the Jewish version of the bible btw. The old testemant is in the Christian bible too
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 16, 2017, 11:03:21 pm
The old testemant isn't the Jewish version of the bible btw. The old testemant is in the Christian bible too

Yes but it's the Jewish part.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 16, 2017, 11:09:20 pm
The old testemant isn't the Jewish version of the bible btw. The old testemant is in the Christian bible too

Yes but it's the Jewish part.
Well if you consider that to be 'the Jewish part' then you should consider the new testemant to be so as well since it's main focus, Jesus, was a Jew.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 17, 2017, 12:29:45 am
Besides on how incredibily wrong that is, it's also very much off-topic.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 12:53:52 am
Besides on how incredibily wrong that is, it's also very much off-topic.
I know it's off topic but which part is wrong?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 17, 2017, 02:42:29 am
You can't compare alcohol to cannabis. The former has been deeply ingrained in society for most of human history, whereas cannabis is comparatively new and not as widespread. When something becomes that embedded banning it doesn't work. The point about rushing to make cannabis legal is that once you do so it's very difficult to turn the clock back.

Prohibition also wasn't that strict, it remained perfectly legal to drink alcohol during that period.
Hang on you're justifying alcohol being legal because it's "deeply ingrained in society"? So was beating your wife/children, slavery and paedophilia. In the civilised world none of those are legal, and I for one am thankful of it. Cannabis already has a significant place in society, whatever happens regarding the law.
Alcohol can and does kill, whether through liver cirrhosis, cancer, RTAs or Wernicke's Encephalopathy. The total cost to the UK caused by alcohol is some 21 billion, of which 3.5 billion directly out of the NHS budget.

Anyway, I find the drug classification system retarded in the UK.
Cannabis is a class B, along with Ketamine. But then good old GHB is a class C. What the fuck.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 17, 2017, 02:24:49 pm
You've misunderstood the argument. When something is that deeply embedded it's impossible to make it illegal, at least in the short term. You can gradually ratchet up the pressure as they're doing with tobacco but outright bans don't work. Wife beating/slavery and paedophilia may be illegal but there's still a lot of it in the "civilised" world (wife beating and paedophilia are kinda obvious, and there's estimated to be over a million slaves currently in Europe).

Cannabis does not have a significant place in UK society given we have a usage rate of only around 6%. Canada's is higher at around 13% but I don't know how much of that is down to native/First Nation Canadians where usage on the reservations is rife.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 02:37:16 pm
You've misunderstood the argument. When something is that deeply embedded it's impossible to make it illegal, at least in the short term. You can gradually ratchet up the pressure as they're doing with tobacco but outright bans don't work. Wife beating/slavery and paedophilia may be illegal but there's still a lot of it in the "civilised" world (wife beating and paedophilia are kinda obvious, and there's estimated to be over a million slaves currently in Europe).

Cannabis does not have a significant place in UK society given we have a usage rate of only around 6%. Canada's is higher at around 13% but I don't know how much of that is down to native/First Nation Canadians where usage on the reservations is rife.

If you recognize that a much more harmful drug is legal and doesnt really negatively affect a big part of society, then you've made my point.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 02:45:12 pm
And if you think that's what he was saying, Phoenix, then you've misunderstood his.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 02:47:08 pm
And if you think that's what he was saying, Phoenix, then you've misunderstood his.

Its a logical consequence of what he said. If you can refute it, go for it
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 02:52:41 pm
And if you think that's what he was saying, Phoenix, then you've misunderstood his.

Its a logical consequence of what he said. If you can refute it, go for it
He wasn't saying that alcohol doesn't have a negative effect on society, just that's it's too deeply embedded within our culture to outright make it illegal just like that.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 02:56:41 pm
And if you think that's what he was saying, Phoenix, then you've misunderstood his.

Its a logical consequence of what he said. If you can refute it, go for it
He wasn't saying that alcohol doesn't have a negative effect on society, just that's it's too deeply embedded within our culture to outright make it illegal just like that.

I see where the misunderstanding is coming from.

The part saying that our society can deal with ous consumig alcohol (which isnr the same as not having a negative effect at all) is my opinion. What I've taken from him is the part that we shouldnt restrict it. It's more me noticing that there is common ground than attacking his position
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 17, 2017, 05:36:23 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 05:43:01 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.

If we can deal pretty well with those two then a much less harmful one will not be very problematic.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 05:46:01 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.

If we can deal pretty well with those two then a much less harmful one will not be very problematic.
But we don't deal well with them do we?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 05:48:34 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.

If we can deal pretty well with those two then a much less harmful one will not be very problematic.
But we don't deal well with them do we?

A huge majority does
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 05:52:24 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.

If we can deal pretty well with those two then a much less harmful one will not be very problematic.
But we don't deal well with them do we?

A huge majority does
Not really. You can't claim that smoking or alcohol is dealt with well considering the thousands of deaths every ear
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 06:07:18 pm
Just because we have two terrible but legal poisons in society, alcohol and tobacco, does not mean we should introduce a third.

If we can deal pretty well with those two then a much less harmful one will not be very problematic.
But we don't deal well with them do we?

A huge majority does
Not really. You can't claim that smoking or alcohol is dealt with well considering the thousands of deaths every ear

Not saying it couldn't be better, it obviously could. Also it is debatable what 'dealing with it well' means but what we can objectively say is that of all deaths in Germany in 2014  80% had nothing to do with tobacco or alcohol, the most dangerous drugs that we have. In terms of deaths, cannabis would most likely not be comparable at all. Obviously there is a lot of health damage that does not result in death, just meant to be a hint. Obviously 20% is much too much but I wouldnt say that society as a whole does not deal with it in a good way. Excessive drug consumption also has a lot to do with pre-existing problems. Also cannabis being, from what I know, not comparable in terms of damage is something that should be addressed when comparing it to alcohol or tobacco.

Spoiler
http://www.dhs.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/Presse/2015/2015-05-11-PM1_Jahrbuch_Drogensituation.pdf
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/156902/umfrage/sterbefaelle-in-deutschland/
[close]

Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 06:41:47 pm
I'm not arguing either for or against legalization but I just want to point out that comparing it to other substances isn't advisable. The health risks and the pros and cons should be evaluated independently rather than in comparison to other substances so we can get a clearer picture of it's potential risks. If it carries any sort of risk then we should seriously consider the implications of legalization.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 17, 2017, 07:08:52 pm
I'm not arguing either for or against legalization but I just want to point out that comparing it to other substances isn't advisable. The health risks and the pros and cons should be evaluated independently rather than in comparison to other substances so we can get a clearer picture of it's potential risks. If it carries any sort of risk then we should seriously consider the implications of legalization.

It can be very helpful to compare and I think that a government should stay logically consistent but generally I'm on your side there.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 17, 2017, 07:14:39 pm
I'm not arguing either for or against legalization but I just want to point out that comparing it to other substances isn't advisable. The health risks and the pros and cons should be evaluated independently rather than in comparison to other substances so we can get a clearer picture of it's potential risks. If it carries any sort of risk then we should seriously consider the implications of legalization.

It can be very helpful to compare and I think that a government should stay logically consistent but generally I'm on your side there.
It can be helpful to compare in certain situation but supporting the legalization of something simply because other, potentially more dangerous, things are legal is a weak argument.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 18, 2017, 05:48:15 pm
Cannabis wouldn't come on the chart of comparing deaths at all. Simply because no one has ever died as a result of cannabis use. Ever. No health department, no university laboratory and no coroner has ever recorded a death resulting from cannabis. I've seen cannabis  get laced with other drugs or just other shit, someone who i used to go to school with was hated and someone paid her dealer to lace her weed with rat poison, and now she's a vegetable. That wouldn't have happened if the drug was legalized. All the health concerns affiliated with synthetic cannabis and cannabis laced with other stuff would not happen if the drug was legalized. That's the only way cannabis is harmful to most people.

I think the comparison of other drugs to cannabis is used to show that the goal of the government is not to preserve health. As someone pointed out before, cannabis is a class B drug in the U.K., along with ketamine, but GHB is a class C. If the goal was actually health concerns and what it does to you, it should be the other way around if cannabis should be on there at all.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 18, 2017, 06:53:46 pm
Cannabis wouldn't come on the chart of comparing deaths at all. Simply because no one has ever died as a result of cannabis use. Ever. No health department, no university laboratory and no coroner has ever recorded a death resulting from cannabis. I've seen cannabis  get laced with other drugs or just other shit, someone who i used to go to school with was hated and someone paid her dealer to lace her weed with rat poison, and now she's a vegetable. That wouldn't have happened if the drug was legalized. All the health concerns affiliated with synthetic cannabis and cannabis laced with other stuff would not happen if the drug was legalized. That's the only way cannabis is harmful to most people.

I think the comparison of other drugs to cannabis is used to show that the goal of the government is not to preserve health. As someone pointed out before, cannabis is a class B drug in the U.K., along with ketamine, but GHB is a class C. If the goal was actually health concerns and what it does to you, it should be the other way around if cannabis should be on there at all.
thats just so blatantly wrong
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Vincenzo on September 18, 2017, 09:59:07 pm
We could talk about alcohol deaths..

Everything can be lethal, especially going outside for instance.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 18, 2017, 10:00:38 pm
We could talk about alcohol deaths..

Everything can be lethal, especially going outside for instance.
Vince knows what's up. That's why I don't go outside.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 18, 2017, 10:32:28 pm
We could talk about alcohol deaths..

Everything can be lethal, especially going outside for instance.
Vince knows what's up. That's why I don't go outside.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 19, 2017, 12:41:58 am
No it's really not. No one has ever died from cannabis in the history of its usage dating back hundreds if not thousands of years. I challenge you to find me one case.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 19, 2017, 12:48:06 am
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2548669/Devout-Christian-mother-three-31-woman-Britain-DIE-cannabis-poisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 19, 2017, 01:09:40 am
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2548669/Devout-Christian-mother-three-31-woman-Britain-DIE-cannabis-poisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/yvqvy7/nope-still-no-such-thing-as-a-fatal-marijuana-overdose
http://www.thecannabist.co/2014/01/31/death-marijuana-reaction-gemma-moss-cannabis-poinsoning-post-mordem/3723/
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2014/01/gemma_moss_british_woman_did_not_die_from_marijuana_poisoning.php/
http://norml-uk.org/2014/02/justice-gemma-moss/

Didnt even read all of it but its enough to say this diagnose is widely criticized
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 19, 2017, 01:19:55 am
I'm not saying she did or didn't just providing a potential example.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/marijuana-triggered-deaths-of-two-men-study-says/
I found the above example and it seems to suggest that maybe marijuana can lead to complications if the user has previous health issues, although it is only a single article but an interesting read nonetheless.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Karth on September 19, 2017, 04:52:39 am
While there are 70 cancer causing chemicals found in tobacco, 30 of them are found in smoking marijuana, so yes theoretically you can get lung cancer from smoking weed (not talking once a day but every few days), which can 'theoretically' lead to death (not to mention everyone inhales obviously deeper with weed).  There have not been enough studies done showing direct relation to those that have died because they smoke weed and also cigs, but both have tar.  The American cancer society is actually continuing ongoing long term studies for this in 8 legalized states, so we will see sooner or later. 
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 19, 2017, 05:32:10 am
It's not debated by anyone that marijuana has killed zero people in the history of its use.

Take the examples on this link - https://familycouncil.org/?p=11795

All the examples provided, the death is caused by something else. The first one being car accidents, if you get in a car while stoned of course you're going to have problems. But the cause of death isn't cannabis, it's a car accident. The second one, same thing. The third one, same thing. The fourth, the cause of death was a gunshot. Fifth one, if you have a heart condition it can lead to heart attacks. The cause might have been connected to cannabis but the cause has never been cannabis, ever. By death caused by cannabis I mean you overdose on THC or CBD (which is physically impossible, it simply cannot be done).

The study done under Ronald Reagan is a huge example, monkeys were tested and they did die. But the thing is, the way the tests were conducted was that twice a day the monkeys were hooked up to gas masks and pumped with pure THC for a solid 15 minutes. They received the equivalent of 3000 high quality joints twice a day in the space of 15 minutes. They died 6 months later, still not from canmabis. They died from suffocation. Because their lungs comprised of more THC than oxygen because they were pumped continuously of unrealistic amounts. You find someone who can smoke even 100 low quality joints a day and you have a case.

It's tar. It can cause lung cancer. That's not doubted. But it's the same as inhaling smoke from a camp fire. Should we ban camp fires too?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 19, 2017, 02:21:29 pm
Cannabis doesn't kill, at least from what we know so far anyway. It does however lead to high incidence rates of mental illness among users; furthermore it's suspicious that of all the terrorist attacks that have been committed since 9/11 a majority of the perpetrators have subsequently been found to have been heavy cannabis users.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 19, 2017, 04:04:31 pm
I mean that's just because it makes you feel good. It takes you're mind off what you're about to do.
Given how much rape occurs under the influence of alcohol there are very strong arguments to limiting its availability. Speaking of rape, GHB is a lower class of drug than cannabis in the UK. That's fucked.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 19, 2017, 04:10:10 pm
Cannabis causes terrorism.

It can LITERALLY be that easy guys
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 19, 2017, 04:58:23 pm
Cannabis causes terrorism.

It can LITERALLY be that easy guys

Didn't say that. More likely it causes mental illness and a certain susceptibility to get into that kind of mindset. The list of terrorist acts by perpetrators who were also known cannabis users is quite long:
Spoiler
2017 Manchester bombings, 2017 attack on the British Parliament, 2015 Tunisian beach massacre, 2015 Tenerife beheading, 2008 Tucson massacre, 2013 murder of Lee Rigby, 2015 Charlie Hebdo attack, 2015 Bataclan attack, both murderers of Canadian soldiers in 2014, thwarted 2015 Thalys train attacker, *so far* one of the Aug 2017 Catalonia attackers
[close]

These are just the more high profile attacks and isn't an exhaustive list by any means. Doesn't apply in every case but in a lot of them you see familiar similarities-they're often losers with a history of petty crime and known to be drug takers, almost always cannabis. Is there a link between terrorist perpetrators and users of a drug we know can cause mental health delusions and aggressive/violent behaviour? Maybe.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 19, 2017, 05:14:59 pm
You can't be serious Steven. Cannabis causes terrorism? Really? I'll tell you what cannabis will cause the average person. A night of shitty movies on the couch and ordering a pizza. The worst that can happen is you might get a little paranoid about objects. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. I can 100% guarantee you that as long as you don't drive your car and you don't have some major cardiovascular illness, you're going to be fine. No serious illness will come to you and no death either. You might get a little paranoid about things around you but that's it.

Cannabis has fuck all to do with terrorism. More than 60% of the Canadian adult population use cannabis. Not nearly close to that are people involved in terrorism.  I would be surprised if cannabis use was even somewhat of interest to the police investigating the incidents, and i'd seriously question the integrity of those police officers if it was something they concluded the cases with. What causes terrorism is a passion for the belief in which your extremist views lie. Whether that's a political or religious terroristic ideology, it is not caused by any type of drug. It can kind of not really be linked to mental illness, but only if you're contacted by someone who is already turned and they turn you. I'd say most of that mental illness is caused by loss, or wanting to find something to believe in that is greater than yourself, or wanting to belong somewhere. Cannabis doesn't make you feel any of that. No drug does. It's a feeling that would either come naturally or due to loss of a loved one at a tender age or being excluded from your peers. This is what Homeland Security is actually quite afraid of but cannabis is not on their list of causes to such a thing. The things I mentioned before are.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 19, 2017, 05:58:03 pm
These are just the more high profile attacks and isn't an exhaustive list by any means. Doesn't apply in every case but in a lot of them you see familiar similarities-they're often losers with a history of petty crime and known to be drug takers, almost always cannabis. Is there a link between terrorist perpetrators and users of a drug we know can cause mental health delusions and aggressive/violent behaviour? Maybe.

My comment wasn't intended as serious.
You're putting a pretty hefty causation to a phenomemon that is actually easily explained. Terrorists in Western countries are usually poorly embedded socially, that kind of person is far more likely to be using drugs. You're reversing everything here.

What I mean:
Pretty shit social situation --> Drugs (and when exposed to extremist views, in the right circumstances --> Terrorism

What it seems like you're doing:

Drugs --> pretty shit social situation --> terrorism
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 19, 2017, 06:00:46 pm
+ nearly all terrorists take some kind of drugs as the need to grow a pair in order to do what they intend to do

Dont see where you going at or why you even mention it but it's correct, ye, obviously.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: joer5835 on September 19, 2017, 06:24:14 pm
In that regard, drugs aren't that different from alcohol. Some people use it to numb their senses and give them some temporary bliss from their usual shitty situation.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 19, 2017, 06:57:07 pm
In that regard, drugs aren't that different from alcohol. Some people use it to numb their senses and give them some temporary bliss from their usual shitty situation.

Alcohol is a drug. That probably accounts for 90% of cannabis users I know. And then through the black market they get hooked on other drugs. The issue known as the "gateway drug". Only a gateway because of the black market. Most people who use harder drugs like heroin or cocaine start on cannabis, and because of the drug being illegal and the black market existing, your friendly local dealer will ask if you want something stronger and that's how they make money. No dealer just does cannabis, they do anything ranging from cannabis and LSD to meth and cocaine. Eliminate the black market around cannabis and the whole black market will be cut back a shit ton. Vancouver, one of the largest black markets in the world in cannabis, which deals with the entire North American continent, when it gets shut down due to lack of profit with legalization, the whole continent's black market on drugs will decline. Demand will go up and hence so will prices.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 19, 2017, 07:11:57 pm
More than 60% of the Canadian adult population use cannabis.

Sounds legit.

These are just the more high profile attacks and isn't an exhaustive list by any means. Doesn't apply in every case but in a lot of them you see familiar similarities-they're often losers with a history of petty crime and known to be drug takers, almost always cannabis. Is there a link between terrorist perpetrators and users of a drug we know can cause mental health delusions and aggressive/violent behaviour? Maybe.

My comment wasn't intended as serious.
You're putting a pretty hefty causation to a phenomemon that is actually easily explained. Terrorists in Western countries are usually poorly embedded socially, that kind of person is far more likely to be using drugs. You're reversing everything here.

What I mean:
Pretty shit social situation --> Drugs (and when exposed to extremist views, in the right circumstances --> Terrorism

What it seems like you're doing:

Drugs --> pretty shit social situation --> terrorism


Maybe, maybe not. There's evidence on both sides, see here for instance: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4539550/Is-marijuana-factor-jihadi-murders.html
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Karth on September 19, 2017, 08:51:02 pm
Everyone smokes weed, Jesus at least 60% of high schoolers in the US probably smoke weed, you can't say there's any relation to causing someone to commit terrorist acts. 
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 19, 2017, 10:19:22 pm
"Evidence" -> Daily Mail  ???

Edit: also reading the actual argument it does nothing to show both sides of the argument, does nothing to show sources etc
As usual, you're talking absolute bollocks
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 19, 2017, 10:47:53 pm
More than 60% of the Canadian adult population use cannabis.

Sounds legit.

These are just the more high profile attacks and isn't an exhaustive list by any means. Doesn't apply in every case but in a lot of them you see familiar similarities-they're often losers with a history of petty crime and known to be drug takers, almost always cannabis. Is there a link between terrorist perpetrators and users of a drug we know can cause mental health delusions and aggressive/violent behaviour? Maybe.

My comment wasn't intended as serious.
You're putting a pretty hefty causation to a phenomemon that is actually easily explained. Terrorists in Western countries are usually poorly embedded socially, that kind of person is far more likely to be using drugs. You're reversing everything here.

What I mean:
Pretty shit social situation --> Drugs (and when exposed to extremist views, in the right circumstances --> Terrorism

What it seems like you're doing:

Drugs --> pretty shit social situation --> terrorism


Maybe, maybe not. There's evidence on both sides, see here for instance: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4539550/Is-marijuana-factor-jihadi-murders.html

That article is a joke. I could show you thousands of similar articles that suggest that we all are a greater threat to society because we play pc games. I mean keep it serious
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 19, 2017, 11:58:17 pm
"Evidence" -> Daily Mail  ???

Edit: also reading the actual argument it does nothing to show both sides of the argument, does nothing to show sources etc
As usual, you're talking absolute bollocks

That's a bit rich coming from you considering you occasionally link to The Canary (a kind of clickbait Pravda). I mean f*ck me this is front page news according to them: https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/09/18/independent-says-ids-thinks-bosses-killing-workers-not-far-wrong-images/

Anyway, are you seriously saying there's nothing to this? Really? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lee-rigby-murderer-adebowale-is-borderline-schizophrenic-recommended-for-broadmoor-9015617.html
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 20, 2017, 12:21:41 am
"Evidence" -> Daily Mail  ???

Edit: also reading the actual argument it does nothing to show both sides of the argument, does nothing to show sources etc
As usual, you're talking absolute bollocks

That's a bit rich coming from you considering you occasionally link to The Canary (a kind of clickbait Pravda). I mean f*ck me this is front page news according to them: https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/09/18/independent-says-ids-thinks-bosses-killing-workers-not-far-wrong-images/

Anyway, are you seriously saying there's nothing to this? Really? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lee-rigby-murderer-adebowale-is-borderline-schizophrenic-recommended-for-broadmoor-9015617.html

Lets keep the ad hominems aside. I dont see anything that could convince me which is however quite simple. Just link: 1) studies linking terrorism (=\ psychoses) to cannabis  or  2) proof of psychoses affecting the terrorists during their actions and of the causation of them by weed.

No need for any more articles about correlations, let's stick to the scientific method, once and for all.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2017, 01:08:35 am
Correlation is what is used to identify trends in such large data sets-how do you think we first discovered the link between lung cancer and smoking? It's perfectly valid and is part of the scientific method.

As far as I know there have been no studies that suggest cannabis is linked to terrorism. The reverse is also true however, there have been no studies to disprove it either. I dunno if there's anyone out there with an interest in the subject and access to a pot (::)) of grant money but that may be something to investigate. When the correlation is that striking it deserves attention.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 20, 2017, 01:10:28 am
Steven again they're distinct things:
Schizophrenia can cause people to harm themselves or others.
Heavy cannabis use increases the likelihood of an individual developing schizophrenia or having psychotic episodes.
Terrorists use drugs, including cannabis, for short term highs (in terms of mood) and/or to prevent them thinking about what they're doing.

Saying that they're equivalent is blatantly false. You can replace the word cannabis with alcohol and you'd just have to change schizophrenia to depression, personality disorders or just generally aggression.

I mean technically speaking, if we're talking about actual psychosis induced violence, then they're not actually terrorists, as they're just mentally ill. That being said, we seem to reserve that term for caucasians for some reason.


Edit: I wasn't disputing a correlation, I was simply saying that the Daily Mail jumping to conclusions about causation is not at all scientific or indeed based in any sort of fact.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2017, 01:40:41 am
Steven again they're distinct things:
Schizophrenia can cause people to harm themselves or others.
Heavy cannabis use increases the likelihood of an individual developing schizophrenia or having psychotic episodes.
Terrorists use drugs, including cannabis, for short term highs (in terms of mood) and/or to prevent them thinking about what they're doing.

Saying that they're equivalent is blatantly false. You can replace the word cannabis with alcohol and you'd just have to change schizophrenia to depression, personality disorders or just generally aggression.

Don't understand your argument. Your first two sentences I agree with but when you said 'Terrorists use drugs, including cannabis, for short term highs (in terms of mood) and/or to prevent them thinking about what they're doing' I don't quite get it. Time and again the same story plays out: losers who aren't very religious, have petty criminal records and take drugs suddenly find their faith, get radicalised and blow themselves up. The cannabis comes before they turn to terrorism.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 20, 2017, 03:20:45 pm
Correlation is what is used to identify trends in such large data sets-how do you think we first discovered the link between lung cancer and smoking? It's perfectly valid and is part of the scientific method.

It shows that there might be something, correct, but no it is not to be used as a replacement of evidence. Then it is not 'perfectly valid and is part of the scientific method'. So either you make a point or you say that you might have a point in 5 years.

As far as I know there have been no studies that suggest cannabis is linked to terrorism. The reverse is also true however, there have been no studies to disprove it either. I dunno if there's anyone out there with an interest in the subject and access to a pot (::)) of grant money but that may be something to investigate.

Correct again. In science if you cant prove a hypothesis nor it's antithesis, you acknowledge that you have clue. If you want to make a point which needs evidence to back it up however, it's on you to prove it and not on me to disprove it. In science, as you know, an active claim is treated with more scepsis in terms of evidence than a passive one and rightly so.

When the correlation is that striking it deserves attention.

Yes in order to find out if there is a link. It can't be used to presuppose one.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 20, 2017, 04:50:43 pm
I mean technically speaking, if we're talking about actual psychosis induced violence, then they're not actually terrorists, as they're just mentally ill. That being said, we seem to reserve that term for caucasians for some reason.

This isn't true, terrorism can be a result of violence instigated by mental illness. The motivation for someone committing a violent act should still be taken into account, whether that person is mentally ill or not. Anders Breivik is mentally ill, but is also a terrorist, because his act was because of political motivation. The fact you are actually capable of comitting such an act is evidence of mental illness.

Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2017, 07:01:05 pm
I didn't claim it was true, I merely stated it was suspiciously highly correlated and should be further investigated. I personally thinks it's more likely than not that cannabis is playing a role but apparently there's no grant money available for someone to look into it. How odd given a) the correlation, and b) the newsworthiness of terrorism and cannabis legalisation.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 20, 2017, 07:41:31 pm
I didn't claim it was true, I merely stated it was suspiciously highly correlated and should be further investigated. I personally thinks it's more likely than not that cannabis is playing a role but apparently there's no grant money available for someone to look into it. How odd given a) the correlation, and b) the newsworthiness of terrorism and cannabis legalisation.

Well as long as you dont want to pass legislation because of it, everything's fine
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Vincenzo on September 21, 2017, 10:27:56 am
I didn't claim it was true, I merely stated it was suspiciously highly correlated and should be further investigated. I personally thinks it's more likely than not that cannabis is playing a role but apparently there's no grant money available for someone to look into it. How odd given a) the correlation, and b) the newsworthiness of terrorism and cannabis legalisation.
I think you really fit to this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-have-figured-out-what-makes-people-reject-science-and-it-s-not-ignorance

take whatever "facts" you can find online to support the conservative ideas you have in your head. no offence intended.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 21, 2017, 01:35:01 pm
I didn't claim it was true, I merely stated it was suspiciously highly correlated and should be further investigated. I personally thinks it's more likely than not that cannabis is playing a role but apparently there's no grant money available for someone to look into it. How odd given a) the correlation, and b) the newsworthiness of terrorism and cannabis legalisation.
I think you really fit to this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-have-figured-out-what-makes-people-reject-science-and-it-s-not-ignorance

take whatever "facts" you can find online to support the conservative ideas you have in your head. no offence intended.

I don't fit to it at all given there's no scientific consensus whatsoever on cannabis and terrorism. Anyway we shouldn't put science on a pedestal and say whatever the consensus is must be the truth and you can't question it. Science often gets it wrong-the whole point is you constantly question everything. Thalidomide used to be considered safe, homosexuality was classed as a disease up until the mid 1970s, the majority of doctors used to smoke...even Bill Nye is having to edit his old shows to remove references to there being only two genders rather than the 69 that exist today. It's pretty much a given that most published scientific research findings are false.

Put science on a pedestal and you end up with this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470496/
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 21, 2017, 03:47:14 pm
I don't fit to it at all given there's no scientific consensus whatsoever on cannabis and terrorism.

There's no discussion about it as there are no scientist pushing the idea of there being a link with evidence from what I know. You have linked an article from the dailymail, journalists aren't scientists.
[/quote]
Anyway we shouldn't put science on a pedestal and say whatever the consensus is must be the truth and you can't question it. Science often gets it wrong-the whole point is you constantly question everything.

Question everything.
Doesn't mean you can ignore a discrepancy in facts and feel right to do so as you want to be a sceptic. You will always have to believe in one version and it should be the one backed up by scientific evidence. Obviously that doesn't mean you cant question it but everything can always turn to be wrong but we have to take decision nonetheless.

halidomide used to be considered safe, homosexuality was classed as a disease up until the mid 1970s

New knock ledge -> new scientific position, obviously. Same point as above.
Classifications can not be compared to truth claims as they are quite subjetive. There is no concrete line to be cross in order for something to be a disease and not an abnormality.


the majority of doctors used to smoke...

And I drink ~1L coca cola a day knowing it is really bad. Is coca cola healthy or don't I know about it being unhealthy now ? Maybe that's not mutually exclusive...

even Bill Nye is having to edit his old shows to remove references to there being only two genders rather than the 69 that exist today. It's pretty much a given that most published scientific research findings are false.

Don't know why he does it but I'm pretty sure it's about politics and not science.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on September 21, 2017, 04:38:14 pm
I think you really fit to this:
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-have-figured-out-what-makes-people-reject-science-and-it-s-not-ignorance

take whatever "facts" you can find online to support the conservative ideas you have in your head. no offence intended.

Some ardently religious conservatives might be ignorant of science, but at least they don't attack it like the other side of the spectrum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 21, 2017, 04:42:45 pm
That DM article was guest written by a doctor, but okay.

The point is that there is no consensus, and even if there was it's perfectly valid to question it. A significant number, if not a majority, of terror attacks are carried out by people who are psychotic and with a history of drug use. I first became suspicious after reading an account given by the perpetrator's brother:
https://www.channel4.com/news/leytonstone-attack-accused-had-mental-health-problems

Does this not make you suspicious as to whether there is a link? Does it not make logical sense given everything we already know/are beginning to find out about cannabis and mental health?

Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 21, 2017, 04:50:42 pm
Correlation is not causation Steven. I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Vincenzo on September 21, 2017, 05:52:33 pm
If weed makes you an terrorist, why did nobody blow up the netherlands yet? we have 500.000 muslims, cheap legal weed and 0 terrorattacks. oh snap.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 21, 2017, 07:15:41 pm
That DM article was guest written by a doctor, but okay.

The point is that there is no consensus, and even if there was it's perfectly valid to question it. A significant number, if not a majority, of terror attacks are carried out by people who are psychotic and with a history of drug use. I first became suspicious after reading an account given by the perpetrator's brother:
https://www.channel4.com/news/leytonstone-attack-accused-had-mental-health-problems

Does this not make you suspicious as to whether there is a link? Does it not make logical sense given everything we already know/are beginning to find out about cannabis and mental health?

He wrote a bs article about correlations without actual evidence. That's not enough for me to consider it material of a scientific debate. Might be the reason for other people to start one but nothing more. There is no controversy if there isn't evidence on both sides or at least different approaches to its interpretation. When no one touched the issue then there simply isn't a controversy. If there is no evidence for or against something, the scientific approach is a passive position: you can presuppose there not to be a link but you cannot presuppose a link.

If you don't even want actual evidence for your position anymore but are satisfied with correlation than a discussion becomes quite impossible.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 21, 2017, 07:16:43 pm
What I've found in my observations and also talking to soldiers who have seen combat and been in the houses that Islamic terrorists live in and also been in operations targeting houses of people who are conspiring to commit terrorism is that cannabis use is actually quite rare. There's opium everywhere but cannabis is extremely rare. The climate there makes it borderline impossible to grow the plant. Opium is how they fund themselves (legalize opium and most Islamic terrorist groups will have no money therefore no terror attacks). The fact that cannabis is extremely rare in these places proves that cannabis is not in any way linked to the causation of someone committing a terrorist attack. 90% of terrorists don't use cannabis. Because 90% of them don't have access to cannabis. Cannabis has only ever been proven to trigger schizophrenic episodes, in terms of psychotic effects. I've seen schizophrenics use cannabis it's not pretty. But schizophrenics account for less than 1% of the population. So that's fair to punish the 99.5% of the population so the .5% can't have access to cannabis? What about all the people with Parkinson's? Or the cancer patients dealing with total pain from chemotherapy? The fact that people think that cannabis being illegal is stopping people from getting is simply laughable. Honestly walk outside down a fairly popular street and I can guarantee you that you will see someone who knows how to get you cannabis within 5 minutes of your walk. It's seriously the easiest thing to obtain.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 21, 2017, 08:04:30 pm
If weed makes you an terrorist, why did nobody blow up the netherlands yet? we have 500.000 muslims, cheap legal weed and 0 terrorattacks. oh snap.

Largely because you got lucky. Hollandish police are constantly arresting people for planning terror attacks, most recently last month. Holland also has one of the highest numbers of ISIS volunteers per capita in Europe.

And once again weed is not legal in Holland, merely decriminalised in certain circumstances.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 21, 2017, 08:05:48 pm
If weed makes you an terrorist, why did nobody blow up the netherlands yet? we have 500.000 muslims, cheap legal weed and 0 terrorattacks. oh snap.

Largely because you got lucky. Hollandish police are constantly arresting people for planning terror attacks, most recently last month. Holland also has one of the highest numbers of ISIS volunteers per capita in Europe.

And once again weed is not legal in Holland, merely decriminalised in certain circumstances.

Such as in Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, the UK, Spain..... ?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 21, 2017, 11:24:26 pm
It's not really the problem of the Netherlands if it happens in Holland.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Piercee on September 22, 2017, 02:40:52 am
If weed makes you an terrorist, why did nobody blow up the netherlands yet? we have 500.000 muslims, cheap legal weed and 0 terrorattacks. oh snap.

Largely because you got lucky. Hollandish police are constantly arresting people for planning terror attacks, most recently last month. Holland also has one of the highest numbers of ISIS volunteers per capita in Europe.

And once again weed is not legal in Holland, merely decriminalised in certain circumstances.

Amsterdam is a shithole anyways, they can have that.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: joer5835 on September 22, 2017, 12:41:05 pm
Hollandish

Wtf Steven.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 22, 2017, 08:14:58 pm
>Hollandish
>HoLlaNdiSh

What's Hollandish? You mean Dutch? Hollandish sounds like a variation of hollandaise
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 22, 2017, 11:32:11 pm
I think Hollandic (Hollands) is a semi-accepted demonym for Holland. Dutch (Nederlands) is the demonym for the Netherlands (Nederland), though very sporidically the word 'Netherlandic' is also used. I've seen it used exactly two times in my entire life.

People will sometimes tell you 'Dutch' can mean both something from Holland and something from the Netherlands. They're wrong. It's like saying 'Virginian' can mean both something Virginia and the USA.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 22, 2017, 11:51:47 pm
Excuse me duuring, adjectives aren't directly related to politics, can you please get back on topic or I may be forced to lock the thread.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 23, 2017, 10:25:27 am
No no. If someone talks shit about my country, he should at least get its name right.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on September 23, 2017, 01:03:15 pm
No no. If someone talks shit about my country, he should at least get its name right.

>assumed my gender
>displaying evil right-wing patriotism

Shame on you.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Duuring on September 23, 2017, 01:45:02 pm
It's not patriotism, it's regionalism.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 23, 2017, 07:46:50 pm
It's not patriotism, it's regionalism.
Damn seperatist
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Piercee on September 24, 2017, 01:15:18 am
Everyone knows that only Gelderland is truly The Netherlands.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: MrTiki on September 24, 2017, 06:47:52 pm
Noord Brabant represent
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 24, 2017, 10:31:59 pm
If weed makes you an terrorist, why did nobody blow up the netherlands yet? we have 500.000 muslims, cheap legal weed and 0 terrorattacks. oh snap.

Largely because you got lucky. Hollandish police are constantly arresting people for planning terror attacks, most recently last month. Holland also has one of the highest numbers of ISIS volunteers per capita in Europe.

And once again weed is not legal in Holland, merely decriminalised in certain circumstances.

No it's actually because of a more or less sound social system. There is no social void that breeds extremism as much as Belgium, or France.


Noord Brabant represent
Talking about the military, more like overrepresented.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 26, 2017, 12:54:28 am
Scandinavia has the highest terrorism rates in Europe I think. Isis, al Qaeda, Hamas, and mafias around the world would be seriously weakened if cannabis was legalized. A top Italian terrorist prosecutor said that the legalization of the drug would cause the mafia and terrorist organizations to take a huge blow. I do not see how this can possibly be a bad thing.

Also stemming back into the economic benefits, a work colleague of mine in Vancouver BC invested in the medical marijuana industry a year or so before Trudeau took office. He bought a share worth $1500. When Trudeau took office, because of his huge election promise being the legalization of cannabis, that went up from $1500 to $6500, and when cannabis is actually legalized it's expected to be worth over $10000. How anyone can say that 10000 new jobs in a 4.5 billion dollar annual profit industry with taxation and ending the war on drugs, saving billions of dollars in the costs of court cases and prison time and drug tests even, is a bad thing blows my mind. With the billions upon billions a country would save every year, an entire financial debt could be entirely erased while you don't have to pay as much income tax or GST could be lowered.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 26, 2017, 01:26:32 am
Pipe dream.
"Ending the war on drugs" what, you plan to legalize heroin?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 26, 2017, 01:27:59 am
No he plans to stop terrorism by legalising cannabis
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Theodin on September 26, 2017, 04:44:08 am
No he plans to stop terrorism by legalising cannabis
true
i also see that connection
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on September 26, 2017, 02:07:18 pm
Scandinavia has the highest terrorism rates in Europe I think. Isis, al Qaeda, Hamas, and mafias around the world would be seriously weakened if cannabis was legalized. A top Italian terrorist prosecutor said that the legalization of the drug would cause the mafia and terrorist organizations to take a huge blow. I do not see how this can possibly be a bad thing.

I think we should keep Scandinavia out of the "drugs are linked to terrorism" argument.

My reasoning is due to the observation that in western Europe, the trend appears to be that those who take drugs are at a greater risk of becoming radicalized due to their vulnerable mental state - hence becoming domestic terrorists who ISIS have recruited from the general population. Scandinavia on the other hand, allows terrorists blatantly posing as refugees in through their borders, terrorists trained in Iraq and Syria, hence not being recruited from the general population (Sweden takes most of the blame of course, but a few have fallen through the cracks into Norway as well).

A great many of the domestic terrorists we've seen in W. Europe have been hand picked by ISIS, from the underworld of drug-taking petty criminals. Steven's argument certainly has legitimacy.

Edit: I do recognize that legalization would hit ISIS' profiting from the drug trade. That said however, I'm not sure if the impact would be substantial enough to warrant legalization, given that in turn we will be providing a much more accessible source of drugs for potential radicals.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 28, 2017, 08:18:21 pm
But if the drug were legalized that would also mean that terrorist recruiters posing as refugees can't recruit from the drug taking petty criminals because everything, like a brewery or tobacco plantation, would have to be checked out by the government to ensure it meets the standards of the law. Because of that exact thing, there would also be nothing else going into the cannabis, nothing being laced with anything therefore eliminating any potential serious harm from someone taking what they think to be cannabis.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 08:32:52 pm
what a load of shite George. Legalising cannabis getting rid of terrorism is a hopeless argument. I'd abandon it now if I was you.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Karth on September 28, 2017, 08:38:33 pm
What the balls, you can't compare legalization of weed to terrorism in any way, that's apples and oranges lmao
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 28, 2017, 09:15:04 pm
What the balls, you can't compare legalization of weed to terrorism in any way, that's apples and oranges lmao

It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like comparing apples to the Empire Fucking State Building
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 09:30:00 pm
What the balls, you can't compare legalization of weed to terrorism in any way, that's apples and oranges lmao

It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like comparing apples to the Empire Fucking State Building
It is the big apple to be fair
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on September 28, 2017, 09:32:05 pm
What the balls, you can't compare legalization of weed to terrorism in any way, that's apples and oranges lmao

It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like comparing apples to the Empire Fucking State Building
It is the big apple to be fair

oi cheeky
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 09:42:45 pm
What the balls, you can't compare legalization of weed to terrorism in any way, that's apples and oranges lmao

It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like comparing apples to the Empire Fucking State Building
It is the big apple to be fair

oi cheeky
Rekt
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 28, 2017, 10:46:01 pm
I didn't start the terrorism thing, I'm just merely pointing out that many terrorist organizations would be seriously harmed should cannabis be legalized. That's not opinion that's fact. A lot of their income comes from illegal drug trades, most would probably say most of their income comes from the illegal drug trade. Legalize the drugs and eliminate the black market and you eliminate terrorists capability to do anything because of no money.

Like I said that's not a subjective statement, it is an objective fact. It cannot be disputed.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 10:51:27 pm
Post your sources proving this then. Even so it doesn't prove that the majority of their recruits join because of smoking weed illegally.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 29, 2017, 10:01:44 am
I don't think that the majority of their recruits join because they smile weed illegally? I think those that are exposed to terrorists posing as refugees to recruit people who smoke weed illegally, as someone else pointed out before, would be eliminated if weed was legalized because then the black market would not exist. It's common knowledge that terrorists make their money from illegal drug trades. My original point was that the elimination of the black market on drugs would economically crumble most terrorist groups around the world.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Toffee on September 29, 2017, 11:45:58 am
I still want your sources which prove everything you're saying
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 29, 2017, 08:32:41 pm
My sources about what? About how terrorists posing as refugees can't recruit people through the black market if the black market is eliminated? I mean what is there to be in doubt for? What's not believable? That's not rocket science, it's pretty straight forward and obvious.

But this is a book written by one of Italy's top prosecutors saying that legalizing weed would hurt terrorist groups and many organized crime groups as well

https://www.amazon.it/contrario-terrorismo-islamico-possono-sconfitti/dp/8804643404
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Piercee on September 30, 2017, 03:05:07 am
But terrorists get recruited through many other ways besides ''the black market'', there's literally tons of pages everywhere that promote any sort of terrorism and even in real life they are being recruited because some preachers are allowed to ''hate preach'' which in return radicalizes the population.
I bet you're an ancap though.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: BabyJesus on September 30, 2017, 07:17:24 am
My sources about what? About how terrorists posing as refugees can't recruit people through the black market if the black market is eliminated? I mean what is there to be in doubt for? What's not believable? That's not rocket science, it's pretty straight forward and obvious.

But this is a book written by one of Italy's top prosecutors saying that legalizing weed would hurt terrorist groups and many organized crime groups as well

https://www.amazon.it/contrario-terrorismo-islamico-possono-sconfitti/dp/8804643404
legalizing cannabis does not get rid of the black market. As long as an item is taxed there is a black market

Have you actually read that book? I know I won't be since it's in Italian
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Phoen!x on September 30, 2017, 06:34:25 pm
My sources about what? About how terrorists posing as refugees can't recruit people through the black market if the black market is eliminated? I mean what is there to be in doubt for? What's not believable? That's not rocket science, it's pretty straight forward and obvious.

But this is a book written by one of Italy's top prosecutors saying that legalizing weed would hurt terrorist groups and many organized crime groups as well

https://www.amazon.it/contrario-terrorismo-islamico-possono-sconfitti/dp/8804643404
legalizing cannabis does not get rid of the black market. As long as an item is taxed there is a black market
But you can heavily reduce it. Searching superlatives when discussing laws is not very handy is it?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: George385 on September 30, 2017, 06:39:25 pm
Yeah I have read bits of it. You can get it translated since it's an e-book.

I'm not saying terrorists recruit through the black market. Someone else said that and I was rebutting it. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

No, the legalization of cannabis would mean that the black market on cannabis crumbles. For example, there is no black market anymore for alcohol. Al Capone rose through the criminal underworld because of the prohibition of alcohol. When alcohol was re-legalized, the black market on alcohol almost instantly died. Before cannabis was criminalized in the 1930's, cannabis was taxed yet had no black market. It's blatantly not true to say that as long as an item has taxation a black market will remain. Everything has a tax, it's called GST. In Australia GST is 10%. You get taxed 10% of every product you buy. A McDonald's Big Mac is taxed and it doesn't have a black market?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Edwin on October 13, 2017, 10:59:20 pm
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/12/smallbusiness/california-cannabis-fires/index.html

Could it be divine intervention?
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: Riddlez on October 14, 2017, 01:22:31 pm
Hardly intervention. God jus wanted the smoke to induce a heaven-wide high.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: StevenChilton on October 14, 2017, 01:33:33 pm
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/12/smallbusiness/california-cannabis-fires/index.html

Could it be divine intervention?

Should hopefully give a lot of people an extra few years of freedom from mental illness. Can't say I feel sorry for cannabis farmers given they profit off the back of human misery-I hope more burn down.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: LukasDougherty on October 04, 2023, 11:34:09 am
It's amazing to see how the decision to legalize cannabis has unfolded over time. The initial goals of eliminating the black market, creating jobs, and boosting the economy have certainly left their mark.
Title: Re: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada
Post by: laurenttrevino on October 05, 2023, 11:24:49 am
Since then, a lot has changed. Legalization did indeed have various impacts, from the economy to job creation. It's also sparked conversations worldwide about cannabis policies.
If you're curious about how other countries are handling cannabis, you might want to check out the info about the medical cannabis clinic in the UK (https://releaf.co.uk). They often provide valuable insights and resources on this evolving topic.
The push for legalization continues to be a hot topic globally, and it's fascinating to see how different regions are approaching it.