Protests in Baltimore

[Gluk the Walrus]

well june, do you think the police are justified in their actions no matter how lethal?

[junedragon]

well june, do you think the police are justified in their actions no matter how lethal?

Nope, never said that

Simply stated that his comment exaggerated the prevalence of lethal force in the course of arrests.

I believe that lethal force should only be used when it is rationally connected to the goal of protecting the safety of the officer and public, with no better option presenting itself (ie. must be a imminent and credible threat with no other viable alternatives present to neutralize it). For instance, brandishing a knife/gun/etc. at a police officer (and refusing to step back and/or drop it) or physically engaging the officer and trying to seize/use his firearm.

Believe me I'm far from believing that police are above reproach/always in the right.

I also tend to agree with you that the militarization of police has gone too far (eg. I haven't yet seen a single solid explanation why police, especially some small-town units, need tanks et al.)

[Xent]

Makes me wonder: is psychological tests even existing for cops in the USA? I'd imagine not, considering the large amount of arrests that ends in deadly violence.

Between 2003 and 2009 there were ~4000 arrest related deaths in the United States. In that time frame, over 98,000,000 arrests were made.

So, just 0.00004% of arrests made resulted in an arrest related death, let alone homicide (the number includes natural causes and suicide etc. among "arrest-related deaths" - adjusting for this <0.00002% of arrests result in homicide by a law enforcement officer).

For those of you keeping track at home this means that dying in the course of an arrest is 8 times as unlikely as getting struck by lightning (and dying via police homicide in the course of an arrest is 16 times as unlikely as so).

I've only been in the USA once but most of the cops I saw was rather fat actually which could explain why police now shoots runaways with 8 bullets in the back instead of chasing.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

That is still a higher percentage than most European countries. Where did you get these sources from? A shooting like really makes you question the system, that's all. This policeman is obviously not mentally stable.

[Nipplestockings]

Nobody is saying it's acceptable, friend. Police shootings are just not quite as common as the media would have you believe. Still, cops are scum. Fuck the police.

[Xent]

Nobody is saying it's acceptable, friend. Police shootings are just not quite as common as the media would have you believe. Still, cops are scum. Fuck the police.

No, I wouldn't agree that all cops are scum. But I would say that some of them seems to have the wrong job. Which made me ask the question whether they are tested in a personality test before getting hired because that's the way it works in most countries in Europe. A person with more power than the average citizen should obviously have a certain amount of empathy and competence.

[Nipplestockings]

It varies per department. There is no standard hiring process or even set of customs or rules for police departments across the country. Some states have various guidelines and laws regarding police management, and many counties have their own guidelines too, but for the most part there is no standard.

Is that a problem? Yeah, definitely. But it's also not an issue that a psych exam would solve, really. Cops are not evil, or psychotic. They're just arrogant, heavy-handed and often don't have good situational judgment skills - things that are gained through training and experience. The attitude of police in the United States is generally what causes issues, not their psychological status or whatever else.

[ClearlyInvsible]

Maybe we should make it a bit harder to become a cop?

[Nipplestockings]

It's already pretty hard to become a cop. Again, most of the problematic attitudes within policing come from being in a police environment for extended periods of time and putting yourself in danger on a daily basis. Part of it comes from paranoia - every new traffic stop could mean your death. Part of it comes from an arrogance gained through interacting with two kinds of people on a primary level: criminals and other cops. This causes a sort of "us vs. them" attitude to develop, and when criminals are the main civilians a police officer interacts with, it starts to change his mental state.

A few good pieces on the topic of police culture:

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/25/351373721/police-mental-stamina-metrics-shed-light-on-deadly-force

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/06/397891177/police-officers-debate-effectiveness-of-anti-bias-training

[Nipplestockings]

[Akko]

Disgusting animals.

[Gluk the Walrus]

There are animals on both sides of the argument.

[Akko]

There are animals on both sides of the argument.

I don't see cops looting innocent businesses.

[Gluk the Walrus]

There are animals on both sides of the argument.

I don't see cops looting innocent businesses.

I don't see protestors shooting unarmed people in the street.

[Grenadier]

If you are angry and find it rational to burn down your own community then you my friend, are a moron. Rioting does not really solve problems and only costs the state money they don't have. If you disagree with me, then feel free to pay all the costs to the infrastructure that the rioting has costs.

[Nipplestockings]

Yeah, no shooting incidents yet fortunately. They are attacking random people physically in other ways, though.