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Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => Community => Topic started by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 12:51:47 pm

Title: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 12:51:47 pm


Competitive Community Melee Patch



This is idea to make changes to melee component of the gameplay, mostly for competitive scene. Goal of the patch is to minimize randomness and maximize skill cap, so that melee is about skill not luck. Currently we have a few ideas regarding only bayonet vs bayonet scenario, cavalry changes can of course be added as well. This patch would be either applied to the main game with the upcoming patch if FSE would agree or be just patch that could be used on servers for competitive purposes, though that might cause community to be divided.


Ideas:


I. Bayonet vs Bayonet

1. Fixing pokes
No-one knows for sure if anything can be done with pokes. Problem is they are very random and can easily turn around the fight. Ideally goal is to stabilize pokes, like they are mostly in Native, but sadly most realistic option is to completely remove them which isn't that great but it might be still better than having random pokes.

2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range
There are two reasons for that. Until September 2012 upstab and downstab had same range and same speed, than there was a patch that made upstab longer and downstab faster, I imagine that animations were adjusted to the changes. Though there seems to be slight disparity between animation of downstab and it's actual range, so-called ghost range. Second reason is that downstab seems to be a bit overpowered. Downstab spam with addition of backpedaling is very annoying to deal with and quite easy to perform (though I'm not saying it takes no skill). In ranging battle downstab usually wins against upstab because speed buff was greater than upstab's lenght buff. If the range on downstab is decreased it will still stay dominant stab as it's higher speed makes chambers harder to react to. How much downstab's range should be decreased? Maybe only to fit the animation and lose it's ghost range.

3. Less tanky units
There are multiple ways of making that happen. Either make units have less health and proportionally decrease damage on ranged weapons so there is no difference regarding ranged damage OR increase damage on all melee weapons. Reason for this change is that stabs often do random damage and player can tank 5 stabs and then kills you in one stab. Of course it is known which stabs usually will do a lot of damage (long range stabs, moving forward) and which less (close range stabs, moving backwards), but there is still a lot of random moments like stabs that should kill but don't (upstab in the head from the medium range) and stabs that kill and shouldn't (downstab in the legs from maximum range while moving backwards). Of course unit's should be able to get killed to fast since getting killed with one blockchamber that can't be defended against is not fair. Idea is to decrease tankyness for about 25%.

4. Kick Hitboxes
There's a really annoying glitch with hitboxes when an enemy is stabbed/kicked there is a certain amount of time where you can't stab him because your stab will go straight through his hitbox and into the guy behind him, probably should do something about that if it is possible to fix it. The hitbox is there but it kinda warps / lags behind.

Video Evidence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKJcnlRasOs
[close]
These are the ideas we currently. Everyone is welcome to share their ideas, opinions and participate in making the patch, someone with knowledge of the game's code is needed.




Competitive Community Melee Patch Team:

- Herishey, Head of the project, Bayonet Melee Theory and Practice Expert
- McPero, Bayonet Melee Theory Expert

[close]

Your beloved rapper Herichey
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 12:51:54 pm
If anyone else wants to get involved with this then please let myself or McWeebo know, as we mentioned we will need someone with more knowledge of coding to tell us what is and isn't possible as well.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Knightmare on August 31, 2017, 01:00:19 pm
Remove chambers.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 01:01:41 pm
I think the majority of competitive players would highly disagree with that.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Tournesol on August 31, 2017, 01:16:34 pm
Remove chambers.

it will decrease the skill gap.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 01:37:31 pm
Of course any further suggestions are appreciated if anyone has one.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Fwuffy on August 31, 2017, 01:57:54 pm
poke one is good
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Nero_ on August 31, 2017, 02:29:49 pm
Remove chambers.
so people like hokej can have their fun with 30 minute duels, good memesssss
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Haze on August 31, 2017, 03:12:33 pm
2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range
The problem is that you don't know if the "ghost range" is actually a bug or only the result of the range variable itself (on the code).
Without that information, i just can't agree with decreasing downstab's range, you should remove this until you know.

Other than that, i found the actual system good enough not to be changed until we know more on what i said before, thats why :

 "In ranging battle downstab usually wins against upstab" Upstab is widely used as the main range stab for a good reason, and second the difference is so short that it doesn't really make sense, upstab or downstab its about factors like angle,timing per exemple that really make the difference and I'm fairly sure thats what the devs wanted, a system where you can actually win range with either Down or Up stab still with a little advantage to upstab.

So the "in ranging battle the downstab usually win" argument doesn't work for me.

Is the Ghost Range always happenning ? i don't think so, it must be a thing that happens sometime, in short : a bug, not directly the downstab range you know. If true it would not be smart then to decrease the range of downstabs, that could unbalance the actual melee, you will tell me downstab is already dominating but only in close and mid range, if you decrease the range, even slightly it would  be even more difficult than it is today to feint at long distance and make the upstab dominating in mid range.

In fact its already viable to rely a lot on mid-range upstab for people that have good footwork, so make change slightly could make it more than viable. Frankly if that happen it will make the melee slower, because the upstab is slower and often used by cancer players to not get chambered easily, also making melee slower and upstab better also helps those that rely on blocks only.
Also remember a key thing, "stab range only matters at long distance"

Whatever the range is, on nw as long as one of the weapons is faster, physically, starting from a x position it will impact the first against a more ranged one. So if you dislike the downstab domination (as a regular mid-close stab, not as a range stab), like the reverse stab on native, you need to decrease it speed, but do we want to decrease it speed ? it has created a good, variant and well known meta.
You can't reduce speed without making napoleonic war melee more casual and simple, it's already mocked by native players, no need to make it worse  :)

I recommend you not going any further about "decreasing downstab's range" until you know more of the code.

"Though there seems to be slight disparity between animation of downstab and it's actual range, so-called ghost range."  That is true, but like i said we need to know more about what cause that.

I'd say what downstab need is an animation fix for the Ghost-Range problem that i believe is a bug that need conditions to occur (not related to the stab range), more accuracy (that fit with animation) is welcome the rest doesn't seem neccessary.

1. Fixing pokes
Why not, seems good, but lets making it clear that we prefer poke to be more logical and realist than totally removed if possible, a lot of people dislike poke but we all love the game mechanics of NW and Warband, the mechanics are the soul of the game (at least most of it, you know, the directional melee we like it, challenging skills ect...), but the Warband Physic its like Einstein theory of relativity, it has predicted pokes to exist,  like Black Hole, it is normal for pokes to exist in a logical melee system where the faster and stronger your stab impact the more damage it does the slower and weaker it impact the less damage it does than can go as much as no damage so then poke (on the paper...), removing pokes would be a bit of treason to the original warband soul, so lets not remove it if we can find a better solution for poke to be more realistic so then fair.
This was more for others people than you herishey.

Remove chambers.
You do that, you make hokej not far from being godlike in being a inviolable blocking machine.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 03:26:41 pm
Most of the idea's were McPero's I just posted them, the one that is the biggest issue for me is making pokes more stable and less random.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Ambiguous on August 31, 2017, 03:29:46 pm
Agreed with every single point you made Herishey.

And Knightmare removing chambers would decrease the skill cap so much this game might actually die.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 03:31:27 pm
As I mentioned McPero was the idea master mainly, I just adapted them slightly to make them more reasonable, but I do thing if each of the points are taken into account it could improve the competitive scene, personally though as opposed to changing the game for everyone I think it'd be better as a server file so people have the option.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Ambiguous on August 31, 2017, 03:33:31 pm
As I mentioned McPero was the idea master mainly, I just adapted them slightly to make them more reasonable, but I do thing if each of the points are taken into account it could improve the competitive scene, personally though as opposed to changing the game for everyone I think it'd be better as a server file so people have the option.
I'd think it would be best if we all played with the same patch for melee, otherwise that would create a divide between the regiments.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 03:36:17 pm
As I mentioned McPero was the idea master mainly, I just adapted them slightly to make them more reasonable, but I do thing if each of the points are taken into account it could improve the competitive scene, personally though as opposed to changing the game for everyone I think it'd be better as a server file so people have the option.
I'd think it would be best if we all played with the same patch for melee, otherwise that would create a divide between the regiments.
It would just depend on how people approached it, it would be no different to for example all the scripts that the gf server uses compared to a linebattle server.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Haze on August 31, 2017, 03:43:54 pm
Agreed with every single point you made Herishey.

And Knightmare removing chambers would decrease the skill cap so much this game might actually die.
Really
I strongly suggest you and everyone to read between the lines instead of agreeing with sympathic titles that everyone agrees on, and understand the change that would happen, i'm not that surprised mcpero proposed that, but the less tanky unit part could legit ruin the game, illuminati ? he might want to finish the game sooner for us all  ;)
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 03:48:38 pm
Agreed with every single point you made Herishey.

And Knightmare removing chambers would decrease the skill cap so much this game might actually die.
Really
I strongly suggest you and everyone to read between the lines instead of agreeing with sympathic titles that everyone agrees on, and understand the change that would happen, i'm not that surprised mcpero proposed that, but the less tanky unit part could legit ruin the game, illuminati ? he might want to finish the game sooner for us all  ;)
Again these are just suggestions and not 100% what would go into such a patch.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Jazzer on August 31, 2017, 04:06:14 pm
There's a really annoying glitch with hitboxes when an enemy is stabbed/kicked there is a certain amount of time where you can't stab him because your stab will go straight through his hitbox and into the guy behind him, probably should do something about that if it is possible to fix it. nerf s key plox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKJcnlRasOs

Edit: Added the example
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Fwuffy on August 31, 2017, 04:08:31 pm
There's a really annoying glitch with hitboxes when an enemy is stabbed/kicked there is a certain amount of time where you can't stab him because your stab will go straight through his hitbox and into the guy behind him, probably should do something about that if it is possible to fix it. nerf s key plox
The hitbox is there but it kinda warps / lags behind. So yeah, fix that please.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: McPero on August 31, 2017, 04:24:48 pm
I think it would be better if this is added to the game so everyone gets used to it and community stays united, but also we must make sure melee changes don't effect linebattles and casual play in a negative way. If it is patch used only on some servers either it won't get used or it will divide community.
Edit: We would for example have 2 groupfighting servers, some events (this doesn't goes for casual linebattles but like tournaments and leagues) might use one module and other the second. Like changes aren't meant to be big but still noticeable.

For Drake

Drake I read your post like 4 times and I don't know what you are talking about for the most of your post. It is just some statements that are contradictory to each other or have no connection, unfinished statements ...

What first you say that ghost range might be a bug and than you say its true that its reason is slight disparity between animation of downstab and it's actual range.

Downstab wins ranging battle because it is so fast and you can react faster with footwork to manipulate opponent using slow upstab. In theory yes upstab has advantage in range but when everything is in motion downstab's speed allows you to win.

I don't mind downstab dominating close/medium range and after making the range shorter it still will because in close/medium range range doesn't have any effect just the speed that matters and downstab will still be faster. Making downstab shorter melee will in no way get slower.

About pokes that is exactly what is meant by saying stabilizing it: for pokes to make sense and get rid of the random ones, but I don't think this can realistically be done so I think completely removing them might still be a good option.

I don't know why you don't want health decreased? 25% is not that much and it is not even a final number.





Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: McPero on August 31, 2017, 04:26:24 pm
There's a really annoying glitch with hitboxes when an enemy is stabbed/kicked there is a certain amount of time where you can't stab him because your stab will go straight through his hitbox and into the guy behind him, probably should do something about that if it is possible to fix it. nerf s key plox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKJcnlRasOs

Edit: Added the example
Post this on the FSE's thread for fixing bugs in new patch, I feel like it is more on-topic there. Because this is the kinda a glitch that should be fixed absolutely by FSE with next patch if they can do it. I don't think anyone would argue they don't want this removed.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Keita on August 31, 2017, 04:35:07 pm
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: McPero on August 31, 2017, 04:36:24 pm
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.

How is everyone replying to this guy, it is so obvious he was trolling xd.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Keita on August 31, 2017, 04:38:16 pm
and pls don't do anythin with the downstab thx
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on August 31, 2017, 04:48:19 pm
I've added the suggestion Fwuffy/NightKill.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Knightmare on August 31, 2017, 06:36:04 pm
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.

How is everyone replying to this guy, it is so obvious he was trolling xd.
I was semi-serious but aye I would love them removed,though I know it's impossible.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Nero_ on August 31, 2017, 06:43:49 pm
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.

How is everyone replying to this guy, it is so obvious he was trolling xd.
I was semi-serious but aye I would love them removed,though I know it's impossible.
y tho
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Knightmare on August 31, 2017, 07:36:11 pm
Spoiler
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.

How is everyone replying to this guy, it is so obvious he was trolling xd.
I was semi-serious but aye I would love them removed,though I know it's impossible.
y tho
[close]
Annoying as fuck and I can't do them.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: John Price on August 31, 2017, 07:41:54 pm
Remove chambers.
Fuck off you fat cunt.

How is everyone replying to this guy, it is so obvious he was trolling xd.
I was semi-serious but aye I would love them removed,though I know it's impossible.
y tho
Annoying as fuck and I can't do them.
He is from Pakistan, constant 200 ping would make anyone annoyed by them I think x)
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: MarxeiL on August 31, 2017, 11:30:21 pm
Don't reduce HP. All russkis and frenchies will die in 1 then  :'(

p.s. Down stab is literally op btw
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: William on August 31, 2017, 11:41:06 pm
I felt like the up stab could be better but I suppose that with a nerfed downstab that it won't be too necessary.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 01:14:39 am
Messing with bayonet range or health creates an unstable environment. As I said previously movement causes ghost range, not the bayonet itself. Obv hitboxes are unstable and armour issues need to be addressed but the bayonet itself is fairly balanced.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: UniversitasMetal on September 01, 2017, 01:30:26 am
1. I don't think pokes are that random and I'm pretty sure some people know how to bait others into poking them.

2. I think stabs are well balanced.

3. 5 stabs yes, but to arms and legs maybe. People should aim for the chest or the head and problem solved.

4. ok.

Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Maple™ on September 01, 2017, 03:57:35 am
I think the melee should be sped up because, on NA side at least, the meta is pretty much blocking until you get a blockchamber/blockstun. If the melee was sped up, there would be new ways to play and it'd force defensive players to do more than block. I mean, come on, bayo v bayo is only 2 attack directions.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 04:35:32 am
I think the melee should be sped up because, on NA side at least, the meta is pretty much blocking until you get a blockchamber/blockstun. If the melee was sped up, there would be new ways to play and it'd force defensive players to do more than block. I mean, come on, bayo v bayo is only 2 attack directions.
Or at least improve server/client relationships so stabs don't disappear or some shit.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on September 01, 2017, 04:39:27 am
1. I don't think pokes are that random and I'm pretty sure some people know how to bait others into poking them.

2. I think stabs are well balanced.

3. 5 stabs yes, but to arms and legs maybe. People should aim for the chest or the head and problem solved.

4. ok.
For the first one, I try to bait people into either glances or pokes and I would say that most of the time, it works.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 05:18:26 am
1. I don't think pokes are that random and I'm pretty sure some people know how to bait others into poking them.

2. I think stabs are well balanced.

3. 5 stabs yes, but to arms and legs maybe. People should aim for the chest or the head and problem solved.

4. ok.
For the first one, I try to bait people into either glances or pokes and I would say that most of the time, it works.
For the last time, for everyone to hear, there is no such thing as a force glance, there is always a random element
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Caskie on September 01, 2017, 06:01:04 am
I think the melee should be sped up because, on NA side at least, the meta is pretty much blocking until you get a blockchamber/blockstun. If the melee was sped up, there would be new ways to play and it'd force defensive players to do more than block. I mean, come on, bayo v bayo is only 2 attack directions.
Or swap melee speed from fastest to medium and would never have this problem as us inferior EU players don't have this problem
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Janne on September 01, 2017, 08:01:14 am
2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range


nice fucking joke lads
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: McPero on September 01, 2017, 08:18:24 am
1. Yes poke baiting is a thing but there is still a lot of random pokes.
2. No.
3. With NW hitboxes you never know what you actually hit, I find that most deadly stab is in crutch/legs.

I don't know what are you doing in NA but here melee is mostly range, chambers, block/stunchambers. I don't see FSE actually implanting these changes so you don't have to concern yourselves.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Herishey on September 01, 2017, 09:49:45 am
1. I don't think pokes are that random and I'm pretty sure some people know how to bait others into poking them.

2. I think stabs are well balanced.

3. 5 stabs yes, but to arms and legs maybe. People should aim for the chest or the head and problem solved.

4. ok.
With point 1 I know how to bait someone into poking me of course, but at times the pokes are very inconsistent and just happen when you are neither too close or too far from your opponent, I tend to call these 'soft spots'.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Maharbaal on September 01, 2017, 04:54:38 pm
2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range


nice fucking joke lads
have you ever tried the upstabs yet?  :-*
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Janne on September 01, 2017, 04:57:41 pm
2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range


nice fucking joke lads
have you ever tried the upstabs yet?  :-*
why would i when downattacks are apparently so fucking op it needs a nerf

haha xd
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Hypno on September 03, 2017, 06:33:34 pm
or u could 'git gud' at the game
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: ~NickCole~ on September 03, 2017, 06:50:14 pm
or u could 'git gud' at the game
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Keita on September 03, 2017, 06:54:08 pm
or u could 'git gud' at the game
but ur shit
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Carolus. on September 09, 2017, 03:05:48 am
or u could 'git gud' at the game
but ur shit

Canada - Finland 13 - 10
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on September 09, 2017, 03:14:52 am
The cream rises to the top
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Caps on September 09, 2017, 07:17:12 pm
1. Fixing pokes
No-one knows for sure if anything can be done with pokes. Problem is they are very random and can easily turn around the fight. Ideally goal is to stabilize pokes, like they are mostly in Native, but sadly most realistic option is to completely remove them which isn't that great but it might be still better than having random pokes.

Unblockable feint spam incoming. You just w them down and shrek them into fast stab kick combo or ppl just spam


3. Less tanky units
There are multiple ways of making that happen. Either make units have less health and proportionally decrease damage on ranged weapons so there is no difference regarding ranged damage OR increase damage on all melee weapons. Reason for this change is that stabs often do random damage and player can tank 5 stabs and then kills you in one stab. Of course it is known which stabs usually will do a lot of damage (long range stabs, moving forward) and which less (close range stabs, moving backwards), but there is still a lot of random moments like stabs that should kill but don't (upstab in the head from the medium range) and stabs that kill and shouldn't (downstab in the legs from maximum range while moving backwards). Of course unit's should be able to get killed to fast since getting killed with one blockchamber that can't be defended against is not fair. Idea is to decrease tankyness for about 25%.

stabs dont deal random dmg

1. they deal at the moment you hit so kinda like  (fast) poke -> low dmg -> high dmg -> low dmg -> poke (slow)
2. if u press w
3. hold
4. enemy movement
5. armor (and which armor part you hit)


whole melee needs revamp stun chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack


2. Slightly decreasing downstab's range
There are two reasons for that. Until September 2012 upstab and downstab had same range and same speed, than there was a patch that made upstab longer and downstab faster, I imagine that animations were adjusted to the changes. Though there seems to be slight disparity between animation of downstab and it's actual range, so-called ghost range. Second reason is that downstab seems to be a bit overpowered. Downstab spam with addition of backpedaling is very annoying to deal with and quite easy to perform (though I'm not saying it takes no skill). In ranging battle downstab usually wins against upstab because speed buff was greater than upstab's lenght buff. If the range on downstab is decreased it will still stay dominant stab as it's higher speed makes chambers harder to react to. How much downstab's range should be decreased? Maybe only to fit the animation and lose it's ghost range.

ppl just miss their up attacks?
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Knightmare on September 09, 2017, 07:50:31 pm
whole melee needs revamp chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack
This man speaks the the truth!
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on September 09, 2017, 08:14:18 pm
whole melee needs revamp chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack
I don't think that's completely true. You can definitely be aggressive and facehug, you just have to be careful. 
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Kore on September 09, 2017, 08:30:14 pm
whole melee needs revamp chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack
This man speaks the the truth!

Not really.



Pokes are annoying but removing them would kinda fuck up the game in my opinion.

Don't mess up with HP, learn to stab instead.

I kinda find it funny how a player that doesn't even play the game anymore shows up all of the sudden and wants to rebuild the whole melee system xD Fuck off.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Caps on September 09, 2017, 08:43:33 pm
mby cuz 1h duels r fun talkin in particular about stuns

whole melee needs revamp chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack
I don't think that's completely true. You can definitely be aggressive and facehug, you just have to be careful.


its harder to hit chambers on fast thats why its probably better on na
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Keita on September 09, 2017, 09:11:30 pm
leave the fucking melee alone
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Janne on September 09, 2017, 10:42:39 pm
leave the fucking melee alone
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on September 09, 2017, 11:25:09 pm
mby cuz 1h duels r fun talkin in particular about stuns

whole melee needs revamp chambers are too punishing so everyone too afraid to attack
I don't think that's completely true. You can definitely be aggressive and facehug, you just have to be careful.


its harder to hit chambers on fast thats why its probably better on na

If anything, it's harder to rechamber and stuns and stun chambers punish players harder on NA and I really don't think that they force players to play defensive. There's a good mix of both types of players.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Theodin on September 10, 2017, 12:09:05 am
It's easy to avoid being chambered. There's only a few players from all time in NA that can chamber even if you're doing your best to avoid being chambered.
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Keita on September 10, 2017, 12:14:04 am
It's easy to avoid being chambered. There's only a few players from all time in NA that can chamber even if you're doing your best to avoid being chambered.
yeah but u guys are trash
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on September 10, 2017, 12:15:01 am
It's easy to avoid being chambered. There's only a few players from all time in NA that can chamber even if you're doing your best to avoid being chambered.
yeah but u guys are trash
I have no idea what he's trying to say
Title: Re: Competitive Community Melee Patch
Post by: Theodin on September 10, 2017, 12:19:18 am
It's easy to avoid being chambered. There's only a few players from all time in NA that can chamber even if you're doing your best to avoid being chambered.
yeah but u guys are trash
I have no idea what he's trying to say
If you don't want someone to chamber you, there are ways to stab without being chambered.