Malakith Community Representative/Global Moderator (How?)

[Flash]

Exacly. If i have a problem (for example) with FSE, i would not be able to contact the CR's because if i contact them then eventually they would discuss between themselves with a FSE member of staff. And therefore influence the decision when in contact with the main members of FSE.

I see this as big confict of ideas and interests and highly irresponsible. He should only have one position in order to clarify and wash all these conflicts.

Erm, I'm not sure what you're talking about but that's the whole idea of the reps - we discuss issues with members of FSE. Plus there is a difference in pointing out a problem and actively trying to incite an aggressive action against them. We're currently discussing the issue of a Rep also being a Mod though, just so you're aware.

[Carolus.]

Exacly. If i have a problem (for example) with FSE, i would not be able to contact the CR's because if i contact them then eventually they would discuss between themselves with a FSE member of staff. And therefore influence the decision when in contact with the main members of FSE.

I see this as big confict of ideas and interests and highly irresponsible. He should only have one position in order to clarify and wash all these conflicts.

Erm, I'm not sure what you're talking about but that's the whole idea of the reps - we discuss issues with members of FSE. Plus there is a difference in pointing out a problem and actively trying to incite an aggressive action against them. We're currently discussing the issue of a Rep also being a Mod though, just so you're aware.

Who are you? You don't see a conflict of interest?

[Lowlander]

I personally agree with you on the grounds that I believe that Community Representatives should not be given power, Megaberna. It is quite clear why you and the rest of the community would have an issue with this and I also have an issue with it. I believe Malakith is a great choice for a moderator however now he is part of FSE and the Com Reps were created to stand for the community and not FSE. Which means they must be entirely seperate.

The issue is already under discussion in our super secret Community Representative Batcave. We should hopefully have this issue resolved soon.

[Malakith]

Exacly. If i have a problem (for example) with FSE, i would not be able to contact the CR's because if i contact them then eventually they would discuss between themselves with a FSE member of staff. And therefore influence the decision when in contact with the main members of FSE.

I see this as big confict of ideas and interests and highly irresponsible. He should only have one position in order to clarify and wash all these conflicts.

FSE are involved in the discussion process as soon as it hits the Community Rep forum, that includes Moderators and the Core Development team.

As for me being a Moderator all I do is read the reported posts and check where they conform or break the Forum policy and guidelines. I don't sit there taking orders on how to react to things from the Development team, if the Dev team were to tell me to "drive" a post in a specific direction they would be the first ones to get told where to shove their Moderator role.

Considering I have been one of the most active Community Reps in that board (I advise you check the summaries to look for the names of people who haven't, they are holding up a lot of decisions) and also the generator of mostly ideas that benefit the community in terms of transparency on FSEs part I find it amusing you think I am "in FSE's pocket".

My StancesOutcomes
1. Presentation of Outcomes - All finished discussions should be made fully public so that the community at large can see how they are being represented and how FSE is responding This got deadlocked within the community rep group itself and resulted in the Summary version you see in the relevant thread
2. Transparency of action - Any time a FSE policy that affects the community changes a full ALL USER PM is to be sent out detailing what the change is thus avoiding the issues we saw before with 3 Mutes = Ban and No Refunds appearing from nowhere. This got passed
3. A topic regarding moderation, whether it is consistent, too harsh or too lenient (Raised before I was asked to be a Moderator)This is still under discussion.

Along with numerous other smaller topics which for the most part resulted in no action as they were purely a Community Issue not anything FSE could deal with (Regiment Embargo's etc).


As far as I am concerned Moderator is just responding to people breaching the forum rules which are clearly laid out and nothing more. If anything you are more likely to get GOOD changes in Point 3 above now I can see the full moderation system, how it is used, consistency etc.
If you wish to continue believing I represent FSE as a company instead of just ensuring people follow the rules laid out then carry on, the community will decide for itself in the next round of voting.

[5arge]

This next dramatic installment just goes to show you that FSE can do nothing right in the eyes of certain members of this community. First Mega was railing against the powerless Community Reps and their useless role in the community. But now that one of them has been given a moderator role, all of a sudden there will be a conflict of interest? Make up your mind Mega, are the Comm Reps useless or do they actually have value? I thought Comm Reps had no power, so how could there be any conflict?

At the very least, Malakith should be allowed to serve the rest of his term as Community Rep and then run for reelection. If he is not reelected, then we know where the community stands on Moderators as Comm Reps. Asking the most active and well spoken member of the Community Rep team to resign because he was given a new hat to wear is a mistake.

[Comando96]

The idea of a Community Representative also having some other formal FSE role... yeah it does sound a tad troublesome...

Who is the person in question?
Its Malakith?

...

Really...

OK I do see and understand the concerns about this in principle but honestly... its Malakith...
Keep calm carry on the world isn't ending yet...

[Rikugun Taishō Ito]

      I don't think being a moderator on a forms is a formal position of FSE. Plus I don't see being a moderator would even interfere with being a Community Representative in the first place, to me it just sounds like people are complaining about having a little job on these forums, kind of childish. 

[Megaberna]

Make up your mind Mega, are the Comm Reps useless or do they actually have value?

Please read my other posts before posting comments like that. I won't bother explaining because it is written in older posts in this thread.

Another case of

FSE Actions > FSE Statements

Somehow, this is correct. The problem is that FSE said they would not give power to the Community Reps and now one of them is Global Moderator = Power in the forums.

I have nothing to point out against Malakith, i have no idea if he is a good/bad, active/inactive user. I have no problem with him and that he received GM status.

What i do have a problem is that a member of the community reps (do not even care who) gained power within the forum while FSE clearly stated that they would not give power to any of the Community Reps. And also of course because of the reasons of conflict of ideas i mentioned in former posts.

So how come we can believe FSE's politics and actions if even they do not follow them by the rule?

Besides they have not even replied to Hekko's thread which totally backs up the matter of the rules not being followed:

Could the one who actually banned Tavington step up and answer the question because even Blob's answer is speculative, and while it gives it a possible cause it may just as well be a bad edit of quoting GunZo rather than a real infraction.

Why was Sid banned?

Will someone apologize to Herlev for warning him with reasons that are EXPLICITLY in conflict with thevthread rules here?

Why was USE banned?

[Rejenorst]

What i do have a problem is that a member of the community reps (do not even care who) gained power within the forum while FSE clearly stated that they would not give power to any of the Community Reps. And also of course because of the reasons of conflict of ideas i mentioned in former posts.

I don't think that was ever a law or rule as such. Can you dig up a quote for me though? Thanks.

[Kator Viridian]

Ah dear the common problem of Pshychology vs Presumption.

Here let me lay this down:

The "Them vs Us" Idea was around long before NW even go to the state it is now, this started back in MM where certain groups were shunned or agitated by the current FSE staff members (Including some who have now joined).

Let me take an example:

Donald, quite a prime one for people being agitated or annoyed at him, if for example one person from a regiment higher up is annoyed by him then thusly the regiment would slowly be turned to hating him and his regiment. This then swings from hating him and his regiment to hating Vince for their close relationship .. and thus the FSE with it.

Hatred by association.

It has turned into the Community vs FSE for this precise reason, as a "Disliked by some" leader of 'X' reg joins he would carry the hatred with him. This has happened so many times now that quite large portions of the community are now "Vs FSE" through "Hated of association".

I thought it was quite a simple idea myself but there we go, you learn something every day.

This is example is not to lead to "Community Vs FSE" but more of "Portions of community vs A Few FSE staff members (Who cause agitation through "Hatred of association)"

So this "You voted for him now you hate him?" rubbish will attribute to "Did I vote for him?" and "Now he is part of you(FSE) and not part of us (Community)".


I hope people are following with my rather spotty ad hoc psychology analysis

What i do have a problem is that a member of the community reps (do not even care who) gained power within the forum while FSE clearly stated that they would not give power to any of the Community Reps. And also of course because of the reasons of conflict of ideas i mentioned in former posts.

I don't think that was ever a law or rule as such. Can you dig up a quote for me though? Thanks.

The logical course of action if causing friction and this is supposed to be "Democratic" (Seen as it is a proposed way of voting for community reps in the commons) would be to ask for a "Reforemdom" on a revote for Malakith to open up another slot or if people want to keep him as a rep.

Logical really.

[Megaberna]

What i do have a problem is that a member of the community reps (do not even care who) gained power within the forum while FSE clearly stated that they would not give power to any of the Community Reps. And also of course because of the reasons of conflict of ideas i mentioned in former posts.

I don't think that was ever a law or rule as such. Can you dig up a quote for me though? Thanks.

Right here: https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=3631.msg112494#msg112494

On Seperation of Powers, look at the Key discussion points including their author:

Malakith: reps should not be trampled on by FSE, but FSE should be allowed to speak at any time as they will ultimately have to enforce/enact our decisions

Flash: the reps were elected to discuss issues with FSE, not hold any legislative power

Flash: notes that the proposal has some merit, but that the reps cannot hope to decide on one singular community view and should instead act as the many voices of the community in discussions with FSE



----------------

Key discussions that from what i can read, happened. After all these "Key moments" FSE decides to appoint a FSE Global Moderator from the Community Rep's.

Besides from what i have read, i think i remember some more posts about this matter but it would take more time to search and i cannot do that at the moment...maybe some other time.

@Kator Viridian

There are some good point you come up with your post and i agree with some of them. But instead of typing, check my first post in this thread:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,265530.0.html

I think it sums up the matters that we have been discussing and why are discussing them.

EDIT: What you just said Kator can also be applied vice-versa and that is important to point out.

[Aksei]

really?? now we talking about every small bull..... ?

[Megaberna]

really?? now we talking about every small bull..... ?

Of course...several FSE members stated that even the slightest comment can be relevant.

Blob usually lies to warn people if in a thread they talk about something else (most known as Off-Topic)...even if it is a small sentence.

[Rejenorst]

Look at the context:

It was proposed that the Community Representatives be allowed to deliberate and find consensus on a matter before the FSE Staff could influence the discussion. By separating the discourse into sections, one where the Comm Reps try to find what's best for the community, and then discuss their findings with FSE afterwards, it was assumed that we would have a more representative system of speaking for the community.

Look at the outcome:

There is no good reason to separate the conversations between the reps and the mods. It was assumed that all of the community reps would be active in every discussion, so reaching a consensus would be necessary and meaningful. That is not the case, so dividing the discourse up makes no sense, and it only serves to prolong things. It appears more likely that certain reps will take interest in certain discussions, likewise with the FSE staff, so a more natural conversation is the best way to conduct our business in the House of Commons.

https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=3631.msg112494#msg112494

It was in regards to FSE's input in the discussions where FSE members where providing information or opinions to community reps prior to discussions conclusion. It was decided that FSE input was a necessity. It didn't have anything to do with providing/notproviding power to reps. Separation of powers is a misleading title as it should more be referred to as separation of discourse.

Edit: as for referendum elections will be up at some point soon.

[Megaberna]

Separation of powers is a misleading title as it should more be referred to as separation of discourse.

It is indeed...but why then if the own Community Rep's said it was not a good idea to have CR's with power ("legislative power")  and still FSE decided to appoint a CR as a Global Moderator?

Don't get me wrong here...you are probably the best Moderator in this forum (even if you are a Voice Acting Manager)

PS: Kinda ironic right? The guys who was supposed to handle the voice also has mod powers and gets to be better then the Global and Devs in moderating the forum   (this of course is my own opinion... don't want people tot think i'm generalizing)