Author Topic: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?  (Read 24179 times)

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Offline Nipplestockings

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #255 on: August 21, 2015, 08:18:21 pm »
I love how anyone who says France on this thread gets immediately hit with the "muh Napoleonic Wars".

Yeah the greatest pride of the French is an Italian pudgebucket.

Offline Suns

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #256 on: August 22, 2015, 09:38:10 am »
I love how anyone who says France on this thread gets immediately hit with the "muh Napoleonic Wars".

Yeah the greatest pride of the French is an Italian pudgebucket.

He was a French General though, so I think its fair to count it for France...

Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #257 on: August 22, 2015, 10:22:58 am »
I love how anyone who says France on this thread gets immediately hit with the "muh Napoleonic Wars".

Yeah the greatest pride of the French is an Italian pudgebucket.

And If you try to count him for Italy, he's not even really Italian. The French did well in the napoleonic wars and revolutionary wars because they had more men.

Offline Mr T

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #258 on: August 22, 2015, 10:58:28 am »
And amazing leaders
And great training
And great army structure



Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #259 on: August 22, 2015, 07:00:27 pm »
Quote
And amazing leaders
Their leaders were only successful because of their numbers. Their tactics were mass assaults in columns that were very costly in lives. French leaders knew they had superior manpower and exploited it.
Quote
And great training
Training? Most of their men were sent off as green conscripts. Their training was what they experienced on the battlefield.
Quote
And great army structure
Fair enough, but useless without the numbers.

Offline Duuring

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #260 on: August 22, 2015, 07:55:20 pm »
Quote
And amazing leaders
Their leaders were only successful because of their numbers. Their tactics were mass assaults in columns that were very costly in lives. French leaders knew they had superior manpower and exploited it.

Stop reading Sharpe and start reading a history book. The French revolutionized the way battles were fought and had very mobile armies, partly due to their intensive use of light infantry on mass scale. Even the British agreed that a French light infantry man was better then a British one.


Quote
Quote
And great training
Training? Most of their men were sent off as green conscripts. Their training was what they experienced on the battlefield.

That's only true for the very early (1792) and very late (1814) period. French troops received weeks of drill if time permitted, and trained up to three hours. British troops were obviously more trained, but that's mostly because the British could decide when to fight and when to run back to the sea, giving them the advantage of being able to pick their battles. Corunna and Walcheren are two great examples of British only not being totally defeated because the Navy turned up.

Quote
Quote
And great army structure
Fair enough, but useless without the numbers.

French army structure was much better then the British structure and would remain better until well into World war 1. Especially the British officer corps was, frankly, a joke.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 07:59:35 pm by Duuring »
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Offline Turin Turambar

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #261 on: August 22, 2015, 08:30:19 pm »
I also read this column thing in Sharpe.

Bernard Cornwell seems to be an influential man.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #262 on: August 22, 2015, 08:58:40 pm »
He's a well-known nationalist with no respect for actual history or historians.
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Offline Turin Turambar

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #263 on: August 22, 2015, 09:35:14 pm »
For a second I thought you were talking about me. :3
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Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #264 on: August 22, 2015, 09:41:58 pm »

Quote
And amazing leaders
Their leaders were only successful because of their numbers. Their tactics were mass assaults in columns that were very costly in lives. French leaders knew they had superior manpower and exploited it.

Stop reading Sharpe and start reading a history book. The French revolutionized the way battles were fought and had very mobile armies, partly due to their intensive use of light infantry on mass scale. Even the British agreed that a French light infantry man was better then a British one.


Quote
Quote
And great training
Training? Most of their men were sent off as green conscripts. Their training was what they experienced on the battlefield.

That's only true for the very early (1792) and very late (1814) period. French troops received weeks of drill if time permitted, and trained up to three hours. British troops were obviously more trained, but that's mostly because the British could decide when to fight and when to run back to the sea, giving them the advantage of being able to pick their battles. Corunna and Walcheren are two great examples of British only not being totally defeated because the Navy turned up.

Quote
Quote
And great army structure
Fair enough, but useless without the numbers.

French army structure was much better then the British structure and would remain better until well into World war 1. Especially the British officer corps was, frankly, a joke.

Did I cite Sharpe as a source? They're entertaining books, but I understand they aren't valid sources. I think your intense hostility towards Cornwell is in his shitty portrayal of the Prince of Orange. And why are you comparing the French army to the British? I'm fully aware that the British army of the period didn't compare to the French army. My point is that the success of the French was based on their numbers. They revolutionized the way battles were fought because they fought in a less limited way. Battles in the 18th century would have relatively light casualties because neither side wanted to risk their armies. The French had men to replace those that were lost, so they went all in.

Edit: By the way, the column attack was a tactic used by the French that failed quite frequently.
From Wikipedia:
Spoiler
During the early stages of the French Revolutionary Wars, battalions in French armies often attacked in column formation in an attempt to drive through enemy lines by sheer weight of numbers. Against enemy units already weakened by the fire from skirmishers or artillery, this was often successful. Later, during the Napoleonic Wars, French units would approach in column formation and deploy into line when close to the enemy. However, against the British they frequently failed to deploy into line before being engaged.[1] During the Peninsular War, after the Battle of Sabugal (3 April 1811), the Duke of Wellington wrote, "our loss is much less than one would have supposed possible, scarcely 200 men... really these attacks against our lines with columns of men are contemptible." [2] These failings were still evident at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815,[3] prompting Wellington to comment, "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/maida/c_maida3.html
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 09:49:02 pm by TheRedRedcoat »

Offline Marceaux

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #265 on: August 22, 2015, 11:02:28 pm »
RedCoat are you fucking retarded? I have so much to say about the idiotic things you have just posted that my fingers would fly off in the midst of me typing out my rage inspired text walls. Instead though i will simply leave you with this...


Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #266 on: August 22, 2015, 11:09:00 pm »
RedCoat are you fucking retarded? I have so much to say about the idiotic things you have just posted that my fingers would fly off in the midst of me typing out my rage inspired text walls. Instead though i will simply leave you with this...



k. You obviously know so much about this topic.

Offline Marceaux

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #267 on: August 22, 2015, 11:18:26 pm »
I am not saying i am the most educated on the subject, but you certainly are not. And for you to try and argue/debate when you OBVIOUSLY lack proper information and are drawing from searches that you likely did as you posted. Its disrespectful not only to history as a whole, but anyone who appreciates military history and truth.

Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #268 on: August 22, 2015, 11:34:14 pm »
I am not saying i am the most educated on the subject, but you certainly are not. And for you to try and argue/debate when you OBVIOUSLY lack proper information and are drawing from searches that you likely did as you posted. Its disrespectful not only to history as a whole, but anyone who appreciates military history and truth.

I posted reliable sources to back up my claims. How does that demonstrate that I lack proper information, and how is that disrespectful to history as a whole? This is a thread for historical discussion, not for throwing shade at random 3eVolt members. Please take the salt somewhere else.

Offline Marceaux

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Re: Which nations are the worst at fighting wars?
« Reply #269 on: August 23, 2015, 12:01:38 am »
Ok let me wreck you real quick...

You said french won due to numerical advantages. WRONG!

In nearly every battle of the Napoleonic wars especially the larger battles France was out manned.

You tried to argue that french generals/leaders were incompetent and only won due to a manpower advantage. (Which they didn't even have) WRONG!

Napoleon and his Marechals were some of the greatest generals to ever lead in battle. Marechal Lannes ALONE proves that to be fact.

You claimed french troops had poor drill.

Yet the french troops were more mobile then any other army in the entire world they also did this without using corporal punishment to keep discipline.

and i could go on and on but its not my job to give you a proper education. Also your regiment has nothing to do with your individual idiocy.