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Messages - Betaknight

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1
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 10, 2017, 10:37:13 pm »
imo tons of my NW friends were watching the bucharest stream and were hoping something like this happ in NW
Explain?

They already tried to make Warband into an esport and I don't think it worked out that well?

- More incentives for competitive play, sure. Would prolong the game maybe bring some oldies back.
But actually becoming a big esport? Doubt it.

Toxicity has lots to do with it, or rather how it is dealt with. Taleworlds has a very strict forum policy, and active / involved moderators. The more important part is within the game though, every single tournament there has actual enforced rules and is handled much more professionally. Meanwhile look into any NW tournament hosted within the past couple of months / years and see people trolling their asses off with no regard to admins oftentimes, not to mention the chat which is always full of spam and toxicity. People here just don't seem to give a damn.

Fwuffy has a very good point. I believe that the majority of NW players (especially in the competetive line infantry side) mostly troll and don't really care to be serious anymore unfortunately, but I think Ledger also made a good point in this regard where he said that considering the community is so small, everyone practically knows eachother to some degree, so there's no incentive for some people not to stay serious. I personally don't think that any money incentive is required in order to stay non-"toxic", but hey, everyone's different.

Very few people gives a fuck about what's being said in global chat tbh.
Elaborate?

Spoiler
I have spent the 6 years I've played this game in the cavalry community. It's a smaller, very different community from the 'infantry', more global community of the game. We've always kind of been seen as the serious guys, even though we had our fair share of toxicity, I don't recall it was ever as high as the rest of the community. Fewer people so fewer idiots probably.

I have been hosting events for the cavalry community for nearly 4 years (since March 2014), back then it always brought a ton of new people nobody knew shit about to the game, they would join the competition, and it would most likely always lead them to cavalry regiments (or the other way around, joining a reg first then participating in tournaments).

It's been different for one and a half year or so. Now there are little if no new players at all, but a very solid core of mostly non-toxic players. A couple of hundreds perhaps, but active, involved, skilled and competitive. It took a few years to form up, but now I'd say it really is the large majority of cavalry players on NW.

I'm currently hosting the Cavalry Nations Cup, it's an international cav competition with country teams instead of regiments. We gathered 10 teams of about 20 players each. Out of 20, maybe 2 or 3 are NW-infantry or Native players, so that's about 180 NW active cavalry players, just for that sole competition (you can add at least another hundred if you take the players who don't partake).

My point is: After 6 years of existence, the game has fewer people playing it than a few years before, but it has a stable and consistent core and community that plays it regularly. Many other games that have been out for 6 years are either dead or in the same situation. I honestly wouldn't say it's that bad.

Taking a CS:GO turn a few years ago and bringing the game to E-Sports would have probably made a lot more people playing it, and competition much more thrilling, but it would have been a lot more toxic as well. Things like that go together.

Hope my input was helpful, the cavalry community is as I said smaller than the infantry one but I don't think both communities are this different at the end of the day.
Thanks for the insight. I believe you're right in general.

I find that a combination of toxicity and lack of update is playing a role in this supposed "decline" in players.

In the end toxicity can only be fixed by you guys. Moderators are there, but the users (you) are the ones that make the community, not the developers ;)

2
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 04:58:53 pm »
Toxicity has nothing to do with it. FSE"s lack of involvement in terms of updating the game and competitive support is the main factor that caused NW to decline over time. Games make money by adhering to the casual community but its longevity depends on the competitive demographic.
Bingo

3
Skins & OSP Resources / Re: New units for the NW patch.
« on: December 09, 2017, 03:11:50 pm »
Speaking of those old skins, I've loved using Docs L'aigle skins for my unit for like the past year, but id still like to know if these ones from beta still exist somewhere.
Spoiler
Did some searching for em around a year ago but im pretty sure they are lost to the sands of time sadly. santa plz.

Oof, I don't know. My hard drives got wiped one day due to a malfunction. If it's anywhere, it will either be in my dropbox or mediafire...

edit: I found access to my account again, I will compile a whole file with everything I've had (even work in progress stuff).

4
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 03:09:50 pm »
Nothing went wrong. If NW was advertised it'd have the numbers to replace the generation of leaders/players who grew up and left the game behind. Everyone who still plays it now who are from 2014+ are either addictied or waiting for something new to play that equals NW (which nothing does) but when it does thats when the game will "die".

> the game will never die unless Youtube and steam get deleted from space time simple.
If nothing went wrong, then why are we here discussing this?

Advertisement could have played a role, but currently I think there's a reason why others are just moving on to the newer games such as holdfast, war of rights and any other similar kind of game that gives them a much nicer and fresher feel to the game than what is being offered now.

Aside to that, even if new players are coming in, we don't know how many of them are actually staying or just bought or got the game for a cheap or free deal.

Lack of content in general imo.
That's being handled in another thread though for now, so pitch over the ideas there :)

5
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:29:39 am »
I think toxicity can be handled with moderators in the server, but that's if there are players to moderate. I think at the moment the focus point should be updating mechanics, adding some new features and creating a new scenario at this moment.

The lack of fresh people is a concern, and yes the game is becoming old. But I think we can still kick it a bit longer. It all depends on how we can interest people to come back again.

Sure, I agree. Toxicity isn't something we can do anything with anyways. It really comes down to each individual.

I mean yeah, but we can still come together and help by talking about a good idea that we could do. Like take a feature from each mod you played and liked. It helps to see what worked and what didn't.

Game development is all about discussing ideas and see where they bring us. To fix what is causing the problem, diagnose and create a (creative) solution.

For example, it was mentioned about e-sports. NWL is an example, but the problem is that new players who recently bought the game don't always go to the forums after playing. Which makes it completely oblivious to new players that there is more than just the vanilla game. I wouldn't have known NWL existed had I not checked here. I think the game should somehow mention the forums a bit more, since a lot of the game is surrounded by community more than just the vanilla game itself.

6
Community / Re: Help wanted for upcomming Napoleonic Wars patch
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:28:48 am »
Ah I see. Good to see you're still around kicking.

As for my 2 pennies, I can't recall all that well why the community went down again... But maybe it was due to some balancing patches that no one liked, and then also the revolution, combined with lack of update. Which of course as I understand is the reason why this is now going up, correct?

I would honestly try to put up new units and perhaps a new faction, haven't read olafson's post yet, but I think it'd be nice to see more variety and as well a chance to update the roster without changing multiple units at the same time. That's been annoying for a while.

edit: A new game mode might be far fetched, seeing how Iron Europe flopped due to the server demand stress it had.  Honestly can someone remind me why the whole thing went down?
wb, nice to see you again as well. :)

the game only really dropped off in the last year or so in pop in a real noticeable way.    It still has more players than holdfast.  the revolution thing was in the begging of 2013 and didn't kill the game. 

the new units we are adding add  more diversity in looks and maybe even gameplay.   any new units(from you, or others) will only add to it, which is nice. 

things are still being worked on, but we are trying to make the game run better than it was before.  We still have things to do and things to test.

Ah you're right, been trying to recap what's happened here: http://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=37652.0;topicseen
incase anyone is interested in discussing a bit of a reflection on the current state of the game.

I think for modding, I honestly would just make the uniforms more independent of each other. I understand it's to save memory and space, plus to allow the engine to run smoother, but it has to be worked on. I don't know if Commander mode is still a thing, or if it even works properly at this moment. From my memory, last time it was buggy with units getting stuck or not firing. The lag from just the smoke and the lack of optimization from the engine has left me wondering if my system is just a toaster some times, is that still a problem?

I know this sounds dumb and has been mentioned but has melee been changed in any way? Usually developers constantly change the core aspect of the game to evolve the meta and keep players learning and entranced. Look at CSGO, DOTA, LoL, and really any game ever. I don't think it would hurt NW to change it slightly to force players to reinvent themselves.
As far as I know, not really. The melee I find has been the best melee I have found. Simple yet effective. I think if there were to be any changes to melee, I would look at the medieval game called Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Maybe something to look at or, perhaps the witcher for sword play maybe.
cb is still a popular game mode.  I enjoy playing it from time to time.  it works properly, and has been improved imo.(even fixed that host a game bug last i checked regarding CBs)  Grozni was kind enough to give us his code on making bots have instruments, and playing them.  Though, at this point, between all the stuff i did, and the other devs, it will be somewhat hard to see his original code left.   We added so many things to it.  Tweaked it. etc,. to suit what we are doing.     The server thread is where i listed all the server side only changes.   It lists a lot of the stuff i did.    With that being said, i haven't updated that thread since we started the client side patch.  Dont want to reveal too much yet.  Not to mention no one would be able to play or do much on there without the new files. 

The biggest problem with CB are server owners having too many bots per squad or players in general on the server combined with the bots.  While we are trying to make the game run better as of the whole(the engine doesn't help either), we cant help those with lower end servers who have the settings way too high for the server they are using.(not every server is like this, but i have been on way way way  too many like this over the years)      Sure, it is really neat seeing all those large lines and what not fighting, but when the server is super laggy, it kills the fun.   Each player, bot, and horse all effect the server.  When you have 500-800 of them, it will lag. 

You will have to talk to olaf about any uniform related stuff.
I think there's something still missing that people want, but is not being said or seeing properly... I'm not sure...

7
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:24:19 am »
I think toxicity can be handled with moderators in the server, but that's if there are players to moderate. I think at the moment the focus point should be updating mechanics, adding some new features and creating a new scenario at this moment.

The lack of fresh people is a concern, and yes the game is becoming old. But I think we can still kick it a bit longer. It all depends on how we can interest people to come back again.

8
Historical Discussion / Re: What would you have been?
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:16:59 am »
Cannonfodder

9
Community / Re: How Many Hours Have You Played?
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:15:24 am »
More than I would have liked to

10
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:13:25 am »
Betaknight more like BOTaknight, sent by FSE devs to ask probing but programmed questions about the state of the game.
Nah mate, I'm an actual game developer for another company, so I kinda am asking basics to get a grasp of what the community in general thinks would be a great idea and what people think is "new/modern/cool/fun", but I wanted to help here as well. I loved the game back then, but I want to see if I could maybe help in getting it a new breath.

11
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:11:57 am »
this dlc is just getting older, and every good game is slowly dying as any other game, i dont believe in this "toxic community" argument tbh, some ppl might be but thats not the main point i believe
What would you say would make the game newer to you then?

12
Community / Re: Help wanted for upcomming Napoleonic Wars patch
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:10:46 am »
Ah I see. Good to see you're still around kicking.

As for my 2 pennies, I can't recall all that well why the community went down again... But maybe it was due to some balancing patches that no one liked, and then also the revolution, combined with lack of update. Which of course as I understand is the reason why this is now going up, correct?

I would honestly try to put up new units and perhaps a new faction, haven't read olafson's post yet, but I think it'd be nice to see more variety and as well a chance to update the roster without changing multiple units at the same time. That's been annoying for a while.

edit: A new game mode might be far fetched, seeing how Iron Europe flopped due to the server demand stress it had.  Honestly can someone remind me why the whole thing went down?

wb, nice to see you again as well. :)

the game only really dropped off in the last year or so in pop in a real noticeable way.    It still has more players than holdfast.  the revolution thing was in the begging of 2013 and didn't kill the game. 

the new units we are adding add  more diversity in looks and maybe even gameplay.   any new units(from you, or others) will only add to it, which is nice. 

things are still being worked on, but we are trying to make the game run better than it was before.  We still have things to do and things to test.

Anyone mind telling me what this revolution thing was all about?
Once upon a time, it was 2013. Everyone got their panties due to a change in how the melee speed was being adjusted. Devs refused to change it, or something alike. People complained, they wanted to boycott. Didn't affect much, it ended up more being a meme in itself honestly.
It was more then just that  ;), I wasn't there but if you look up the older topics in the Forum/Website section, you'll find the dark side.
There's a lot of context missing in those posts, generally there were jokes that were jokes then. Some might see it as facts now when in those times it was more of a joke and troll. Yes there was some annoyances with the developers at that point in time, but I don't think that evolved to anything big afterwards.

Point me in the right direction if I'm wrong though!

13
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:07:39 am »
It's hard to say what exactly made people drop the game, but I think it's the lack of updates and the fact that the DLC have been out for 5 soon 6 years people have gotten bored and moved on to other games. (I don't think the whole REVOLUTION saltiness had any major impact on the player count.)

Also welcome back glad I contacted you. ;)
Nah, I agree with the fact the revolution did nothing. But I was wondering what exactly happened more or so, what became boring? The lack of maps, gameplay, the lack of updates in-general? Lack of response or any type of development within the community towards the game?

I mean NW was previously M&M and that has been going on for a while. So why just after so long?

I think that a lot of people get burnt out and take a break from the game for a while, which I myself have done several times, which reflects on the overall playercount. But I think a bigger problem for this DLC is the toxicity that has been slowly killing it, ever since it's start. Toxic people who have made the game less fun for others, I'm sure has been one of the main reasons that has discouraged several players from continuing to play NW, and further driving the playerbase down.

Oh, and also the lack of influx of new players. I don't think many people buy NW nowadays. Mount & Blade itself is quite an old game, so getting a new player is a rare occasion.
Can you explain how toxic it's getting?

"Oh, and also the lack of influx of new players. I don't think many people buy NW nowadays. Mount & Blade itself is quite an old game, so getting a new player is a rare occasion."
Very big point in that. I guess the game being the same has been getting old by itself as well eh? Maybe a new mechanic.... Hm....

the game needs e-sports
Explain?
I meant it semi-seriously. I've for example always admired what the Native community has done with their competitive side, and all the tournaments, leagues etc. It might be because the NW community is more toxic so we can't have nice things. Maybe it's because the Taleworlds guys are more involved with the Native side of things whereas FSE guys don't seem to do much with the competitive side here. Does native have a larger playerbase? Who knows.

Semi-seriously or not, no idea is a bad idea at this point ;)
So you would suggest the game add some kind of competitiveness? How would you approach that?

14
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:05:10 am »
I think that a lot of people get burnt out and take a break from the game for a while, which I myself have done several times, which reflects on the overall playercount. But I think a bigger problem for this DLC is the toxicity that has been slowly killing it, ever since it's start. Toxic people who have made the game less fun for others, I'm sure has been one of the main reasons that has discouraged several players from continuing to play NW, and further driving the playerbase down.

Oh, and also the lack of influx of new players. I don't think many people buy NW nowadays. Mount & Blade itself is quite an old game, so getting a new player is a rare occasion.
Can you explain how toxic it's getting?

"Oh, and also the lack of influx of new players. I don't think many people buy NW nowadays. Mount & Blade itself is quite an old game, so getting a new player is a rare occasion."
Very big point in that. I guess the game being the same has been getting old by itself as well eh? Maybe a new mechanic.... Hm....

the game needs e-sports
Explain?

15
Community / Re: Recap
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:00:26 am »
This isn't the welcome back thread though... I just want to see what's going on....

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