Author Topic: The General Political Thread  (Read 35563 times)

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Online Toffee Lad

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1590 on: September 13, 2017, 10:39:55 pm »
British qualification awarded in secondary school
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Offline Theodin

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1591 on: September 13, 2017, 11:30:06 pm »
British qualification awarded in secondary school
Oh. We have a literacy test in grade 10 in Canada (which, for a lot of questions, is literally just "can you read this"?).
If that was a dig at my vocabulary, I'll have you know my mom says I know lots of words!

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Online Toffee Lad

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1592 on: September 13, 2017, 11:32:16 pm »
British qualification awarded in secondary school
Oh. We have a literacy test in grade 10 in Canada (which, for a lot of questions, is literally just "can you read this"?).
If that was a dig at my vocabulary, I'll have you know my mom says I know lots of words!
Just a joke  ;D and if grade 10 is aged 16 in Canada then yes it's the same
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Offline Gordo

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1593 on: September 14, 2017, 12:11:59 am »
How do you think Hitler became leader of the Nazi party in the first place? He was famed for his Nationalistic speeches centred around the treaty of Versailles. Sure his popularity was waning before the hit of the great depression but he used this as a platform to gather support for the reversal of the treaty as he placed great emphasis on it's role in Germany's misfortunes. His entire foreign policy during his first years in power were focused upon the reversal of the treaty of Versailles, hence why many had sympathetic views towards his cause and supported him. Both had a great contribution and it's pretty fair to say that Hitler might not have come to power had the treaty not been so harsh.

No no no, Hitler's rise had everything to do with the depression, considerably more so than the ToV. This is going to be long, I'll try to keep it "brief" (as briefly stated as some of the most important history of modern Germany can be).



In the early days of the Weimar Republic, which had been created after the collapse of the monarchy, the new government had very little support - nobody liked it, with many politicians still holding allegiance to the Germany monarchy while most of the populace saw the experimental government as weak and pro-French. After the chaotic government (which was made up of several different parties fighting for control as a result of the disastrous proportional voting system of the Weimar) failed to pay reparations agreed upon in the treaty of Versailles, France invaded and occupied the Ruhr in 1923 in order to profit by selling its resources.

This was of course seen as an affront by the German voters, who saw the invasion as unnecessary act of aggression against an already beaten nation who believed they rightfully owned the Ruhr's resources. As a result, there was a large surge of nationalism in the polls, with the Nazi party gaining quite a lot of votes. Hitler then of course went on to attempt a a coup d'├ętat against the Weimar, which of course failed and Hitler was imprisoned, though the large surge of nationalism among the court and jury got him off with a very lax sentence (though the party of NSDAP was successfully banned, preventing the party from growing while Hitler was imprisoned). By the time Hitler was released from prison in 1924, the nationalistic and extremist upsurge among voters had faded due to successful negotiations with France. Hitler got the party unbanned and became leader again in 1925, but had little success in the ensuing elections for government.

To make matters even worse for Hitler, the pragmatist and diplomatic wizard Gustav Stresemann brought out the Dawes Plan in 1924, which made paying reparations extremely more manageable for Germany, and reformed the Reichbank and created the Reichmark currency in order to counter the insane hyperinflation that was wreaking havoc among the middle and lower class (the main voter demographic of the Nazis). Stresemann then went on to serve as an extremely effective foreign minister for Germany and started to rebuild relations with France and Britain, but more importantly with the USA. From the mid 1920s support for the Nazis dropped steadily as Stresemann set Germany on the path to economic recovery with the help of the sympathetic USA who granted Germany gracious loans to manage the cost of reparations, and even invested in German business and tourism thanks to Stresemann's successful negotiations. Germany went on to sign the Kellogg-Briand Pact in August 1928, which increased foreign relations considerably (many nations still had PTSD from WW1 and were terrified of Germany rearming. Many nations such as France had purposely done little to aid Germany economically in order to prevent them from rearming. This pact put an end to most of this skepticism, with Germany renouncing the use of violence to resolve international conflicts).

The Kellogg-Briand Pact set the foundation for the Young Plan, which was successfully negotiated with American investment banks and the US government in 1929 and was implemented shortly after. The plan reduced German commitment to reparations and the USA increasingly held up Germany's economy. However, Stresemann conveniently died before the Depression, and the Young Plan was shortly lived. The USA began to pull all money out of Europe including that committed to the Young Plan, and also decided it wanted its money back from earlier investments into German industry and economic recovery. Germany of course did not have the money to repay the USA and defaulted on its loans, with the country plummeting yet again into chaos. Mass hunger and widespread suffering ensued (especially among the working class which was now very large due to the middle class rapidly shrinking). Needless to say Germany was now in an extremely dire economic and social situation, completely abandoned by everyone including the USA. As extreme times call for extreme leadership from the voters, NASDAP's popularity rose rapidly on wards and you know the rest. 

So yes, had the Great Depression never occurred the USA would probably have dragged Germany out of the gutter and Hitler & NSDAP would have faded into irrelevancy.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 12:25:20 am by Gordo »

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1594 on: September 14, 2017, 12:25:15 am »
Yes Gordo we've all done GCSE history

The treaty of Versailles contributed greatly to Hitler's initial break into the political scene and shaped his foreign policy for his first few years of his dictatorship. That was his entire ruse when it came to appeasement right up until Czechoslovakia. No denying that. Germany was ruined by WW1 and the treaty of Versailles rubbed salt in the wounds.

I mean a whole lot of his criticism of the Weimar regime came from the idea that they had stabbed the german people in the back at Versailles, and many people felt that way in Germany. My point isn't that the Great Depression didn't contribute significantly to his rise to power, but that it wasn't the only factor, and what gained Hitler his initial support was discontent caused by the TOV. I'm talking much earlier in his timeline when the Nazis first became a large political power than when they took complete control.
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Offline Gordo

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1595 on: September 14, 2017, 12:40:34 am »
Yes Gordo we've all done GCSE history

Evidently not, given the treaties' irrelevancy to Hitler's political maneuvers which allowed him to become chancellor.

The treaty of Versailles contributed greatly to Hitler's initial break into the political scene and shaped his foreign policy for his first few years of his dictatorship. That was his entire ruse when it came to appeasement right up until Czechoslovakia. No denying that. Germany was ruined by WW1 and the treaty of Versailles rubbed salt in the wounds.

I mean a whole lot of his criticism of the Weimar regime came from the idea that they had stabbed the german people in the back at Versailles, and many people felt that way in Germany. My point isn't that the Great Depression didn't contribute significantly to his rise to power, but that it wasn't the only factor, and what gained Hitler his initial support was discontent caused by the TOV. I'm talking much earlier in his timeline when the Nazis first became a large political power than when they took complete control.


The early party's popularity played little role in the reformed party's success and is completely irrelevant given support for the party was nigh non-existent in the mid-1920s.

And before you resort to speculating about Hitler's entrance into politics: odds are extremely good Hitler would have entered politics in the name of nationalism even if the ToV had never been written, based on what he wrote in Mein Kampf about his views during the war.

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1596 on: September 14, 2017, 12:59:58 am »
If you think the treaty is irrelevant to his political manoeuvres then I don't know what to say. He made speeches in the reichstag condemning the treaty. One of his main ideals was blaming the Jews for the loss of the war. His entire foreign policy for most of the 30s was centred around reversing its effects and clauses!

The Great Depression revived his party and gave them the entrance into government but let's not forget that Hitler did act against the consequences of the treaty throughout his pre war political career.We're not talking about what caused Hitler to rise to power in the end, but what caused the initial dissidence and unrest in Germany and the economic situation which arose from the clauses of said treaty due to its vengeful nature as oppose to the reconciliation that the US wanted. The point is that he TOV, and more specifically the reparations, led to a very vengeful German population. Had the US not aided the Germans then it is likely that Hitler's power would have continued to rise throughout the 20s rather than declining, hence my point that the Polish demand only creates divisions rather than justice.
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Offline fruitocino

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1597 on: September 14, 2017, 01:13:27 am »
It's true though. When I visited Vince in Poland last year it become sorta a meme between us to point out European Union-signs - of which there are, seriously, a lot.

The PiS-government doesn't seriously want or expect the Germans to pay. Like Vince says, it's just a political ploy to draw attention away from uninteresting shit like healthcare, employment, democracy and human rights.
It's pretty much the same thing the greek government did in 2015 (with a different background), empty shitposting. I do enjoy the memes though.

Offline Fraudbear

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1598 on: September 14, 2017, 04:28:13 pm »

Trumpcucks on suicide watch.

"HURRRRRRR YOU SUPPORT IMMIGRATION DURRRRRRRRR"
I honestly don't care if those 800,000 people were to get deported, that's just how American politics works. Its all identity politics that tries to hide or disjoint real issues (Le white patriarchy is keeping black tramsgender muslims down, support Hilldawg!/MEXICANS TOOK OUR JERBS BASED BILLIONAIRE PRESIDENT XD). And if you even dare to venture outside of these then you're called a triggering racist or a (equally triggering) ziokike cuck.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 04:33:01 pm by Fraudbear »
Uncuck yourself:


Offline Theodin

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1599 on: September 14, 2017, 05:15:35 pm »
Or the hate filled "muh third way" droolers
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 05:25:05 pm by Theodin »

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Offline Fraudbear

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1600 on: September 14, 2017, 05:23:22 pm »


One (nothing wrong with me)



Two (nothing wrong with me)



Three (nothing wrong with me)



Four (nothing wrong with me)
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Offline Gordo

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1601 on: September 14, 2017, 05:27:31 pm »
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 05:44:51 pm by Gordo »

Offline Fraudbear

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1602 on: September 14, 2017, 05:56:17 pm »
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
That tweet is from 2013 nigga. Politicians flip flop all the time, their only real interest in a liberal democracy is to preserve and expand bourgeoisie private property, which allows this class of people to control democracy in the first place.

Or the hate filled "muh third way" droolers
Wait are you saying I'm a turd positionist?
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Offline Theodin

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1603 on: September 14, 2017, 06:25:58 pm »
Yes. You're one of those people that moans about how the political system is a bourgeoisie conspiracy to protect the private property of the rich.

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
« Reply #1604 on: September 14, 2017, 07:11:31 pm »
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
That tweet is from 2013 nigga. Politicians flip flop all the time, their only real interest in a liberal democracy is to preserve and expand bourgeoisie private property, which allows this class of people to control democracy in the first place.

It's still a bit weird how Trump would stick his neck out for the members of the Charlottesville rally one week, then post stuff like this the next.