The General Political Thread

[Theodin]

I guess we better compensate all the desendents of the people caught up in the slave trade then. Maybe say sorry to the French for the Hundred Years' War whilst we're at it.

I don't remember when the descendants of the slave trade and the French were promised reparations and then taken over by a foreign power and turned them down against the interests of those people

So because something happened which prevented them from receiving the funds then means that a country which has nothing to do with Nazism anymore has to cough up money? My point is that you can't come back over 70 years later to try and reverse something that has happened through no fault of the German government. The world has moved on and demanding money only creates divisions rather than doing any real justice.

Yeah I'd somewhat agree with you. Just saying your analogy is faulty

[Toffee]

Don't dis my analogies. I'm still waiting for my tea reparations for Boston

[MrTiki]

Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.

[StevenChilton]

Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.

Because as part of the 1953 agreement the USSR forced Poland to waive a large proportion of the reparations they were owed from East Germany. And yeah, they're going after Germany because Berlin has been handing out free money recently and has a moral obligation to pay up.

[Toffee]

Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.

Because as part of the 1953 agreement the USSR forced Poland to waive a large proportion of the reparations they were owed from East Germany. And yeah, they're going after Germany because Berlin has been handing out free money recently and has a moral obligation to pay up.

There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.

[Edwin]

There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.

The Versailles peace negotiations ended with the Weimar Republic paying up for the actions of the German Empire, it's happened before.

[Riddlez]

Yes and that wasn't even 20 years after the war. Poland is now demanding money all of the sudden after 70 years...

[Toffee]

There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.

The Versailles peace negotiations ended with the Weimar Republic paying up for the actions of the German Empire, it's happened before.

Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?

[Edwin]

Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?

The Treaty of Versailles certainly drummed up anger, but I think it's safe to say that the Great Depression was a much larger factor in Hitler's success climbing to power.

Anyway that's a bit of a digression, and Poland's claim has already been denied.

[StevenChilton]

Yes and that wasn't even 20 years after the war. Poland is now demanding money all of the sudden after 70 years...

Doesn't matter, these claims can still be made. Wasn't so long ago Israel demanded a further 1 billion Euros. See also claims by the Mau Mau against the British etc.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-to-seek-another-1b-euros-holocaust-in-reparations-from-germany-1.1739

It's not really 'all of a sudden' given this has been a debate in Poland since the fall of Communism, and Germany disgraced itself by telling the Poles a condition of their EU membership had to be an end to any claims for reparations. It's opportunistic to bring it up again now but it's not that out of the blue. This is still a really good deal for Germany given the amount of destruction they caused.

[Toffee]

Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?

The Treaty of Versailles certainly drummed up anger, but I think it's safe to say that the Great Depression was a much larger factor in Hitler's success climbing to power.

Anyway that's a bit of a digression, and Poland's claim has already been denied.

How do you think Hitler became leader of the Nazi party in the first place? He was famed for his Nationalistic speeches centred around the treaty of Versailles. Sure his popularity was waning before the hit of the great depression but he used this as a platform to gather support for the reversal of the treaty as he placed great emphasis on it's role in Germany's misfortunes. His entire foreign policy during his first years in power were focused upon the reversal of the treaty of Versailles, hence why many had sympathetic views towards his cause and supported him. Both had a great contribution and it's pretty fair to say that Hitler might not have come to power had the treaty not been so harsh.

And Steven it really feels like you just love to get one up on the Germans whenever possible because you feel them and the French are running some sort of EU political monopoly or something. They have no association with what happened all those years ago. Current Germany had nothing to do with the destruction caused by the Nazi regime. You say that it's fair that the Poles are paid for the damage caused, but is it fair that the German people, none of whom had any involvement with what happened, are punished for something done decades ago?

[Vincenzo]

Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.

[Theodin]

Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.

Unnecessary hyperbole is unnecessary

[Duuring]

It's true though. When I visited Vince in Poland last year it become sorta a meme between us to point out European Union-signs - of which there are, seriously, a lot.

The PiS-government doesn't seriously want or expect the Germans to pay. Like Vince says, it's just a political ploy to draw attention away from uninteresting shit like healthcare, employment, democracy and human rights.

[Toffee]

Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.

Unnecessary hyperbole is unnecessary

This guy did GCSE English 👌