Author Topic: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)  (Read 29626 times)

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Offline DaMonkey

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2014, 06:46:33 pm »
Duuring hit the nail there. Especially on the loyalties thing. Most Warsaw Pact nations were forcibly involved in it, and many of them had revolutions against it, like the Hungarians.
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MagicTeatowel

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2014, 07:37:23 pm »
If a war were to break out, Would the local populations in Warsaw Pact countries rise up? Resistance Movements etc? - PARTIZANI - In the 50's and early 60's their were groups like the Forest Brothers, UPA, Crusaders, and Goryani to name a few.

Offline Johan

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2014, 07:47:01 pm »
Nobody can proove who is gonna win and this thread is suck-ass.

Offline William

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2014, 07:48:43 pm »
You basically have numbers on Warsaw Pact, vs the higher quality troops of Nato. Essentially, quality vs quantity. IMO, I think Nato would win but it would be a hard fought victory, thousands of cities leveled, Europe being a continent of rubble from the fighting. It would be a victory, but Pyrrhic and with the deaths of millions of civilians and soldiers. Not to mention the fact that nukes are in the equation and if one side launches, then the world burns. Very high stakes, I applaud the Soviet Commander who opted to not fire nukes at America when a sensor went off indicating a launch.
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Offline Desert Thunda

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2014, 07:52:41 pm »

Nobody can proove who is gonna win and this thread is suck-ass.
Yep




Offline Menelaos

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2014, 08:14:27 pm »
Nobody can proove who is gonna win and this thread is suck-ass.

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Offline Stefiboy

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2014, 08:16:33 pm »
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NATO Countries had Volunteer Armies
Ehm, nope. The Netherlands had conscription until 1997. The British until 1960. The Belgians until 1993. France still has it, it just suspended as it's peace, just like Italy and Germany. And so on. 

Several countries in the Warsaw pact had revolutions against the communist, which shows how loyal exactly these people and troops were. Not that anyone can blame them.
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Im talking about the 1980-1991 Period, not the 60's.

Yes, but those were later on, when the Soviet Union was starting to collapse economically and Politically. That is when and why most revolutions took place, also i know about the whole loyalties thing, my Father Served as a Major in the Romanian Ground Forces during the Communist regime, he told me all of his base's close encounters with the Securitate (Basically a Uniformed version of the KGB in Romania) about how some units in his Base wanted to mutiny because their commanders were too harsh or the Communists killed their family for political bullshit. But when it comes to war, those feelings will be gone, your primary focus will be to fight for your country and defend it. The Same thing with the Soviets, alot of their armed forces were angered at the Communist Government, but when they were at war with the Mujaheddin, again Service came before personal feelings and political beliefs, sure there might be desertion but not mutinies, that's the good thing with communist armies, their propaganda works.... (China... ;D) .

Spoiler
You basically have numbers on Warsaw Pact, vs the higher quality troops of Nato. Essentially, quality vs quantity. IMO, I think Nato would win but it would be a hard fought victory, thousands of cities leveled, Europe being a continent of rubble from the fighting. It would be a victory, but Pyrrhic and with the deaths of millions of civilians and soldiers. Not to mention the fact that nukes are in the equation and if one side launches, then the world burns. Very high stakes, I applaud the Soviet Commander who opted to not fire nukes at America when a sensor went off indicating a launch.
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Higher Quality troops of NATO????

The Only Countries in NATO that had the Most well-trained Units and were in position at the Iron Curtain, were the Canadians,The Brits,The Yanks and The French(More or Less at the Iron Curtain) If you put up a Belgian Soldier for example against an NVA Conscript, the NVA Conscript would win, due to superior Infantry equipment and better training, now upgrade that to Section/Squad Size engagements again the East-Germans win again, due to better NCO's(Also Battle-Hardened). Scale it up to Platoon Engagements again NVA, fast-forward to Army vs Army and the NVA Surely wins, due to the Combined arms Doctrine of the Soviets, Pretty Much Outnumbers the Belgians 2-1 and they have twice the tanks, the Belgians have...

Now Put up the Soviets vs the Americans, and then its pretty much uncertain, when it comes to super-powers, the numbers alone can make the difference. (The Ability to put fresher and more men on the battlefield is a decisive factor and advantage that the Soviets and the Warsaw Pact had)

Also don't forget that the US would have to cross the Atlantic to bring their troops to Europe for engagements. And Keep in mind this thread is about Conventional Warfare, so for arguments sake, All Nukes got Dismantled.

Offline Duuring

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2014, 08:31:18 pm »
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Im talking about the 1980-1991 Period, not the 60's.

Great job commenting on only the UK and ignoring all the others

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Yes, but [The revolutions] were later on, when the Soviet Union was starting to collapse economically and Politically

The Hungarian revolution was in 1956. The Czechs had a revolt in 1953. The Polish had massive protests in 1956 and again in 1970. Romania had a large anti-communist underground which wasn't rounded up until 1962. The fact that all those nations rose up again in 1989 when they saw their change is a very clear sign that anti-communism and rebellious feelings were very much alive throughout the period.

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Also don't forget that the US would have to cross the Atlantic to bring their troops to Europe for engagements.

So? The Soviets nor any members of the Pact had air control over the Atlantic. Submarines are ineffective if the USA use convoys, which I'm pretty sure they'll do. You are also forgetting that Russia and the USA are neighbors.

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So much crap I have to put it in a spoiler
The Only Countries in NATO that had the Most well-trained Units and were in position at the Iron Curtain, were the Canadians,The Brits,The Yanks and The French(More or Less at the Iron Curtain) If you put up a Belgian Soldier for example against an NVA Conscript, the NVA Conscript would win, due to superior Infantry equipment and better training, now upgrade that to Section/Squad Size engagements again the East-Germans win again, due to better NCO's(Also Battle-Hardened). Scale it up to Platoon Engagements again NVA, fast-forward to Army vs Army and the NVA Surely wins, due to the Combined arms Doctrine of the Soviets, Pretty Much Outnumbers the Belgians 2-1 and they have twice the tanks, the Belgians have...
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That's the worst logic I've ever seen. 'Fast-forward to army vs army', what? This isn't a board-game.



Offline Gizmo

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2014, 08:31:35 pm »
If you put up a Belgian Soldier for example against an NVA Conscript, the NVA Conscript would win, due to superior Infantry equipment and better training, now upgrade that to Section/Squad Size engagements again the East-Germans win again, due to better NCO's(Also Battle-Hardened).
Why are you making up stuff like this? DDR was seriously behind every western nation in terms of technology, especially if you talk about the latter part of the Cold War. And why the heck would a Belgian soldier would loose against an East-German conscript?

MagicTeatowel

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2014, 08:56:06 pm »
If you put up a Belgian Soldier for example against an NVA Conscript, the NVA Conscript would win, due to superior Infantry equipment and better training, now upgrade that to Section/Squad Size engagements again the East-Germans win again, due to better NCO's(Also Battle-Hardened).
Why are you making up stuff like this? DDR was seriously behind every western nation in terms of technology, especially if you talk about the latter part of the Cold War. And why the heck would a Belgian soldier would loose against an East-German conscript?
Its what happens when you watch highly informative programs about troops fighting each other.  

Offline Hawke

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2014, 08:59:16 pm »
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Offline Duuring

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2014, 09:00:17 pm »
Its what happens when you watch highly informative programs about troops fighting each other.  

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Offline Stefiboy

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2014, 09:06:42 pm »
Look, Just Saying i agree that NATO would win, just not in the early part of the war. All im trying to say is it would be the bloodiest conflict, And the Warsaw Pact would be winning for the first couple of months or so.


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Also don't forget that the US would have to cross the Atlantic to bring their troops to Europe for engagements.

So? The Soviets nor any members of the Pact had air control over the Atlantic. Submarines are ineffective if the USA use convoys, which I'm pretty sure they'll do. You are also forgetting that Russia and the USA are neighbors.

Yes, but im talking about the war in europe, if you want to talk about how the Russians would invade the US? Feel Free to, but we all know how patriotic and revolutionary the americans are, we ultimately know that even if they conquer it all, they still have to face millions of Americans with guns and we all ultimately know that they will eventually pull out...

So im saying that the War in the America's and Siberia would be a stalemate, however Europe would be another story.

Also, im on NATO's Side personally im just saying, at the early stages of a conventional war the Pact would be winning slightly, especially in Germany... in Scandinavia it really depends on how long the Norwegians,Swedish and the Fins can last. Later on, the Soviet's will make the huge tactical error of trying to invade Britain by sea and the flow of american reinforcements will generally be the doom of the soviets, i hate to admit it... but the war would only be won by 2 countries, The US or the USSR. The UK,Canada,France and West Germany would contribute greatly in the war.

If you put up a Belgian Soldier for example against an NVA Conscript, the NVA Conscript would win, due to superior Infantry equipment and better training, now upgrade that to Section/Squad Size engagements again the East-Germans win again, due to better NCO's(Also Battle-Hardened).
Why are you making up stuff like this? DDR was seriously behind every western nation in terms of technology, especially if you talk about the latter part of the Cold War. And why the heck would a Belgian soldier would loose against an East-German conscript?
Making stuff up?

Sure, they wouldn't have technology on their side, but they would have a Battle-Hardened force by the time they reach Belgium and the numbers to beat the Belgian Army, i exaggerated it too much when it comes down to it, 1v1 Belgian vs DDR Conscript. The Belgian conscript would win, but when it goes on to more sizable engagements, the DDR would win, not by technology or training but by the number of troops they could deploy, which is quite alot... Sorry Mate.

MagicTeatowel

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2014, 09:24:10 pm »
Making stuff up?
Later on, the Soviet's will make the huge tactical error of trying to invade Britain by sea

Offline Stefiboy

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Re: NATO vs Warsaw Pact (Who Would Win)
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2014, 09:29:07 pm »

Later on, the Soviet's will make the huge tactical error of trying to invade Britain by sea

What? Its true. An Airborne operation would work out, but a seaborne operation, lots of casualties for what? like 500 metres of beach and 1km inland?