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Offline Marks

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2400 on: July 17, 2017, 07:37:05 pm »
Theory


Spoiler
Frodo doesnt destroy the ring
Hi I’m Toffee and I’ve come to this AA meeting about Cuntness to admit that I, too, am a complete cunt

Offline Audiate

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2401 on: July 17, 2017, 08:21:00 pm »
Spoiler
Cant wait for the Jon and Sansa sex scene. :-*

Spoiler
I think they overdid the poop scene. Or maybe not. I actually felt pretty disgusted. How did Mr. Heartbreak land in the Citadel?

Spoiler
me during the episode:

when jon realizes he's a targ and its a family tradition he's gonna be all over sansa

Spoiler
Uh. What? If R+L=J, Sansa and Jon are cousins, and she's not a Targ, that whole logic makes no sense. It has to assume they already wanted to bang. It'll be Jon and Danny and it'll be suuuuppeerrrr forced. We already found out via Samwell that there's, for some fucking reason, a stockpile of dragonglass on Dragonstone. Really, it doesn't make sense why, at least the way they framed it. Why, though, Jon will be the one who ends up sailing to Dragonstone, which is a contested area already between Danny's fleet and Euron's Iron Fleet (speaking of fucking which, isn't Euron and his ships trapped in the Blackwater Bay between King's Landing and Danny's fleet, which is probably already blockading the Blackwater Bay entrance? Better be a naval battle next episode. That said, I don't know why that needs to happen. Guess battles are the only things to keep people like me really interested in a show that's so derailed anymore.

Anyway, for some fucking reason, the King of the North is going to be the one who goes to Dragonstone to check out the dragonglass that may or may not even be there, and he's just going to trust Aegon the Conqueror with Teets. Btw, where exactly are the Dothraki? Are they already invading somewhere?

I'm guessing Cersei's whole "I can get a better offer" tactic is going to bite her in the ass if Euron sails away and ends up losing tons of his ships and men in battle. The Iron Fleet is probably way more battle-ready, but Danny's fleet does have a ton of Iron ships, too, and it's way larger.

Spoiler
I really hope Arya doesn't manage to kill Cersei that would be so fucking lame..

Spoiler
I feel like she could do it, but since she already told us she is going to try...it probably won't happen lol

Spoiler
Arya won't do it, she's too busy getting slayed by cute boiz teehee xd

Spoiler
I kind of do like Sandor turning to the Lord of Light. It sort of connects to Gregor burning his face in fire as a kid, his fear and running from fire his whole life, and his detachment to the Seven because they've never really been there for him ever. But, R'hllor has, and R'hllor has a mission for him.
Spoiler
...plus this episode kind of reveals the whole R'hllor vs. Great Other, Battle of the Lovecraftian Gods thing going on, that a pocket of ASoIaF fans have been obsessed with, myself included. Sure, the battle for the Iron Throne is truly meaningless if it means the realms will be weak for an Other invasion, but if mankind, the Others, the Dragons, and everything else, are just pawns of two Lovecraftian entities that have been battling each other for thousands and thousands of years, then nothing really matters compared to that. Jon, Danny, Littlefinger, Cersei, Sansa, Sandor, Arya, Olenna, Elia, they're all just meaningless pawns.
Spoiler
The theory goes way deeper but I'm assuming no one read this far/fewer care to hear it. I'll explain it a bit if anyone asks though.
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Offline LiquidSkorpion

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2402 on: July 17, 2017, 08:57:12 pm »
Spoiler
Spoiler
Cant wait for the Jon and Sansa sex scene. :-*

Spoiler
I think they overdid the poop scene. Or maybe not. I actually felt pretty disgusted. How did Mr. Heartbreak land in the Citadel?

Spoiler
me during the episode:

when jon realizes he's a targ and its a family tradition he's gonna be all over sansa

Spoiler
Uh. What? If R+L=J, Sansa and Jon are cousins, and she's not a Targ, that whole logic makes no sense. It has to assume they already wanted to bang. It'll be Jon and Danny and it'll be suuuuppeerrrr forced. We already found out via Samwell that there's, for some fucking reason, a stockpile of dragonglass on Dragonstone. Really, it doesn't make sense why, at least the way they framed it. Why, though, Jon will be the one who ends up sailing to Dragonstone, which is a contested area already between Danny's fleet and Euron's Iron Fleet (speaking of fucking which, isn't Euron and his ships trapped in the Blackwater Bay between King's Landing and Danny's fleet, which is probably already blockading the Blackwater Bay entrance? Better be a naval battle next episode. That said, I don't know why that needs to happen. Guess battles are the only things to keep people like me really interested in a show that's so derailed anymore.

Anyway, for some fucking reason, the King of the North is going to be the one who goes to Dragonstone to check out the dragonglass that may or may not even be there, and he's just going to trust Aegon the Conqueror with Teets. Btw, where exactly are the Dothraki? Are they already invading somewhere?

I'm guessing Cersei's whole "I can get a better offer" tactic is going to bite her in the ass if Euron sails away and ends up losing tons of his ships and men in battle. The Iron Fleet is probably way more battle-ready, but Danny's fleet does have a ton of Iron ships, too, and it's way larger.

Spoiler
I really hope Arya doesn't manage to kill Cersei that would be so fucking lame..

Spoiler
I feel like she could do it, but since she already told us she is going to try...it probably won't happen lol

Spoiler
Arya won't do it, she's too busy getting slayed by cute boiz teehee xd

Spoiler
I kind of do like Sandor turning to the Lord of Light. It sort of connects to Gregor burning his face in fire as a kid, his fear and running from fire his whole life, and his detachment to the Seven because they've never really been there for him ever. But, R'hllor has, and R'hllor has a mission for him.
Spoiler
...plus this episode kind of reveals the whole R'hllor vs. Great Other, Battle of the Lovecraftian Gods thing going on, that a pocket of ASoIaF fans have been obsessed with, myself included. Sure, the battle for the Iron Throne is truly meaningless if it means the realms will be weak for an Other invasion, but if mankind, the Others, the Dragons, and everything else, are just pawns of two Lovecraftian entities that have been battling each other for thousands and thousands of years, then nothing really matters compared to that. Jon, Danny, Littlefinger, Cersei, Sansa, Sandor, Arya, Olenna, Elia, they're all just meaningless pawns.
Spoiler
The theory goes way deeper but I'm assuming no one read this far/fewer care to hear it. I'll explain it a bit if anyone asks though.
Spoiler
I've heard of the theory but I haven't read up on it. If you would like, I would love to hear it.

Offline Jelly

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2403 on: July 18, 2017, 01:12:57 pm »
Spoiler
Cant wait for the Jon and Sansa sex scene. :-*

Spoiler
I think they overdid the poop scene. Or maybe not. I actually felt pretty disgusted. How did Mr. Heartbreak land in the Citadel?

Spoiler
me during the episode:

when jon realizes he's a targ and its a family tradition he's gonna be all over sansa

Spoiler
Uh. What? If R+L=J, Sansa and Jon are cousins, and she's not a Targ, that whole logic makes no sense. It has to assume they already wanted to bang. It'll be Jon and Danny and it'll be suuuuppeerrrr forced. We already found out via Samwell that there's, for some fucking reason, a stockpile of dragonglass on Dragonstone. Really, it doesn't make sense why, at least the way they framed it. Why, though, Jon will be the one who ends up sailing to Dragonstone, which is a contested area already between Danny's fleet and Euron's Iron Fleet (speaking of fucking which, isn't Euron and his ships trapped in the Blackwater Bay between King's Landing and Danny's fleet, which is probably already blockading the Blackwater Bay entrance? Better be a naval battle next episode. That said, I don't know why that needs to happen. Guess battles are the only things to keep people like me really interested in a show that's so derailed anymore.

Anyway, for some fucking reason, the King of the North is going to be the one who goes to Dragonstone to check out the dragonglass that may or may not even be there, and he's just going to trust Aegon the Conqueror with Teets. Btw, where exactly are the Dothraki? Are they already invading somewhere?

I'm guessing Cersei's whole "I can get a better offer" tactic is going to bite her in the ass if Euron sails away and ends up losing tons of his ships and men in battle. The Iron Fleet is probably way more battle-ready, but Danny's fleet does have a ton of Iron ships, too, and it's way larger.

Spoiler
I really hope Arya doesn't manage to kill Cersei that would be so fucking lame..

Spoiler
I feel like she could do it, but since she already told us she is going to try...it probably won't happen lol

Spoiler
Arya won't do it, she's too busy getting slayed by cute boiz teehee xd

Spoiler
I kind of do like Sandor turning to the Lord of Light. It sort of connects to Gregor burning his face in fire as a kid, his fear and running from fire his whole life, and his detachment to the Seven because they've never really been there for him ever. But, R'hllor has, and R'hllor has a mission for him.
Spoiler
...plus this episode kind of reveals the whole R'hllor vs. Great Other, Battle of the Lovecraftian Gods thing going on, that a pocket of ASoIaF fans have been obsessed with, myself included. Sure, the battle for the Iron Throne is truly meaningless if it means the realms will be weak for an Other invasion, but if mankind, the Others, the Dragons, and everything else, are just pawns of two Lovecraftian entities that have been battling each other for thousands and thousands of years, then nothing really matters compared to that. Jon, Danny, Littlefinger, Cersei, Sansa, Sandor, Arya, Olenna, Elia, they're all just meaningless pawns.
Spoiler
The theory goes way deeper but I'm assuming no one read this far/fewer care to hear it. I'll explain it a bit if anyone asks though.
do explain further please

Offline Audiate

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2404 on: July 19, 2017, 04:35:50 am »
Oh god I didn't think people would actually want to hear it. It's actually so fucking much to go into lol. Buckle up if you're going to dive in. The theory, potential book/universe spoilers:

Spoiler
So the theory doesn't really have any singular floor, just a lot of bridges that can almost form one. And that alone is a support to the theory, because if it was true, it's something GRRM wouldn't write in directly as it's something the in-world characters couldn't see or comprehend.

To start off, there's several locations in A World of Ice and Fire that are directly inspired by Lovecraftian lore. These include Carcosa, K'Dath, and Leng, all direct names from Lovecraft's work. Additionally, a super key location is Stygai, a corpse city further in the Shadowlands of Asshai (which is also connected to this theory), which is extremely likely to be a reference to Stygia, a city from Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian, which is heavily related to shadows. Robert E. Howard was also a friend of H.P. Lovecraft, which is a minor connection, but fairly significant.

The second most obvious connection, which people have connected to Lovecraft since Book 1, is the Ironborn and the Drowned God. The Drowned God is almost explicitly referencing the most iconic character of the Lovecraftian universe: Cthulhu. However, there's a key bit of information about the Ironborn that is far more important to this theory. The Seastone Chair is the throne from which the Iron Islands was ruled, and the Iron Fleet obey whoever sits upon it (whoever is King, really). It's clearly a very symbolic thing, but it's what it's made out of that's important. The Seastone Chair is made of a mysterious, oily black stone, that happens to show up a lot in ASoIaF. In fact, it shows up all over the world.

In Northern Sothoryos, further inland than the abandoned city of Zamettar, is the abandoned city of Yeen. Nymeria took her Rhoynish refugees across the Summer Sea, looking to colonize any land that would allow them, but only disaster met them at Sothoryos. While Zamettar was the main city in Sothoryos that the Rhoynar attempted to rebuild, Nymeria sent several men to Yeen looking to colonize it. However, not much long later, it was apparent that Sothoryos's jungle climate, filled with dangerous predators, parasites, and pathogens, weren't worth sticking around for. The Zamettar settlers sailed up the delta towards Yeen to deliver the news that they were leaving, but when they arrived, Yeen was abandoned. There were no signs of struggle or conflict, things were abandoned where they were, but all life was gone. The jungle was growing inwards on the city, but refused to touch its foundation or buildings, which were made of oily, black stone.

Just north of Sothoyros, in the Basilisk Isles, is the Isle of Toads. The Isle, inhabited by people with webbed appendages who resemble fish, is home to a massive idol of a Toad, made of the same oily, black stone. In the northeast-most explored lands of the known world, are the Thousand Islands, a massive archipelago, where many things seem alien to what we see in Westeros. While not exactly fish like, the inhabitants of these islands are hairless, green-skinned xenophobes, who file their teeth into sharp points and have allegedly sacrificed sailors to their fish-headed gods. Under the water, the likenesses of these gods can be made out, carved into the rocks beneath the waves. However, interestingly, these people have an extreme phobia of water, and even with the threat of being killed, will never step into the water. From the wiki, "Some believe they are the remnants of a drowned kingdom whose buildings were submerged by the rising sea thousands of years ago."

South of these islands are the lands of the Jogos N'hai and, further south, Yi Ti. It is said that the Great Empire of the Dawn made up these two lands, and more, and was led by the God-on-Earth, the only son of the Maiden-Made-of-Light, a deity celebrated for life and happiness, and the Lion of Night, a god feared for death and destruction. The lineage of this empire is recorded to be small and direct, with one emperor to succeed after the last, each empire ruling for fewer years than the previous. It's said that the God-on-Earth ruled for 10,000 years. However, this empire ended with the Bloodstone Emperor, who killed his sister and usurped the throne. This emperor worshiped a black stone that had fallen from the sky, and was said to have started the Long Night. Things falling from the sky and being worshiped are heavily based on Lovecraftian lore, and this is a fairly significant association between the Long Night and the Black Stone, which I'll get back to later.

The black stone continues to pop up in a few more significant places. In Yi Ti, on the northeastern border, sits five massive towers of black stone, each seemingly impossible to man, as a single tower could hold about ten thousand men. Though not necessarily connected to this theory per se, in Westeros, a massive, ruined curtain wall made of black basalt is located in the Neck, the marshy border between The North and the rest of Westeros.

Finally, a very key part in this theory, is the Battle Isle. In Oldtown, beneath the Hightower (the massive tower you can see in Episode 1 of Season 7), is the Battle Isle, a massive structure of slick, black stone. I can not explain it better than I could paraphrase it from the wiki: "[It is] a square, labrynthine fortress of fused black stone. Its appearance is reminiscent of the dragonroads of the Valyrian Freehold and the Black Walls of Volantis [...] but there is no archaeological evidence of Valyrians at Oldtown. [...] The fortress is plain and unadorned, unlike the fused stone constructions of the Valyrians, who twisted and shaped the fused stone to ornament their buildings.

Archmaester Quillion suggests a connection between the fortress and the mazemakers of Lorath. The legends of Lorath claim the mazemakers were destroyed by something from the sea. Maester Theron, a bastard of Ironborn ancestry, suggests in his Strange Stone that there is a connection between the Hightower's base and the Seastone Chair, and that they were created by the Deep Ones, a legendary race created by the breeding of sea creatures with humans and which may have inspired the legends of merlings."

This is particularly crucial evidence, as it kind of blows the doors on the theory wide open. Deep Ones are a very direct reference to Lovecraft's mythology. Let's take a quick look at a chapter from A Feast for Crows, in which Brienne of Tarth is visiting Crackclaw Point. Dick Crabb, a former soldier (and potential descendant of House Crabb, previous owners of The Whispers, which is a sinister castle with a sinister history located on Crackclaw Point), warns the two about Squishers. From the wiki, again paraphrased: "From a distance squishers appear human, but according to legend their heads are larger than those of men and they have scales instead of hair. They have webbing between their fingers and toes, while their mouths have rows of green, needle-like teeth. A squisher's belly is white like that of a fish. Their name comes from the squish-squish sound made when they move on their webbed feet.

The First Men are said to have killed all of the squishers, but some residents of Crackclaw claim still squishers come by night to steal bad children, saving girls to breed with and boys to eat.

Some or all members of House Borrell (of Sweetsister, one of three "sister" islands located between the Vale and the North) have webbed hands and toes similar to the feet of ducks, which they call the 'mark.' It is unknown if this is a genetic disorder or if they have a connection with squishers.

It is likely the stories of Squishers are related to the Deep Ones."

Now things are falling a bit into place, right? Across the world, scattered about, are races that resemble both fish and man, and an oily black stone, too, is all over, sticking to primarily coastal regions. So, what does this mean? Well, it can be inferred that when looking at the regions the black stone and squishers or fish-like peoples appear, all of it seems to show up around water, or at least, not far from it. Crucially, it appears in places like Yeen, and Asshai, and Battle Isle. But these places are extremely far apart, so how exactly are they to be connected? No known empire has possessed lands from different continents, not even the Valyrian Freehold, as far as we know (excluding Dragonstone, which was barely in Westeros). So, are they different societies who happened to build with the same materials, or, were they built by a society or societies that live primarily underwater? Let's take a quick look at one of those places: Asshai.

Allegedly, Asshai's great walls could allegedly fit Volantis, Qarth, King's Landing, and Oldtown combined. That's several, several million people. By the time of AGoT, the city is barely populated compared to the size of it, and is only really home to people looking to make use of its magical capabilities. That's right, the city is particularly magical. In ASoIaF, there is apparently PLENTY of magic that has simply left the world since the fall of the Valyrian Freehold. Melissandre talks about this while at Castle Black; she can feel more magical potency from Beyond the Wall, just like she can feel more of it in other specific places of the world, too. But what could be the source of this magical strength in either of these places? Well, Beyond the Wall is going to have to be explained in a second, but I have a hypothesis of my own about Asshai. Stygai, I believe, is the R'lyeh of Planetos. In Lovecraft's Mythos, R'lyeh is the subterranean prison of Cthulhu located in the South Pacific. And this brings us to the first side of the battle: the Drowned God. Whether this unnamed, unseen, unconfirmed deity is particularly Cthulhu-like, the connection between Asshai and the "squishers" is amplified when taking Stygai into account. Stygai is a place not even the bravest of Asshai mages go--and Asshai is a place few people can survive to begin with, with its poisonous water, lack of healthy food supply, and constant shadow. Asshai, or Stygai, exudes corruption, but also magic. Often sinister magic, but magic nonetheless. And I believe that Stygai is the home of the Drowned God, who had sent his squishers across Planetos to build and conquer.

So, what happened to them? Well, like the Roman Empire, like Napoleonic France, like the Third Reich, like the USSR, things are bound to fail with enough resistance against them. Simply put, something came to put them in their place. And my bet on that, is man. Ghiscar, Rhoyne, the First Men of Westeros, the Yi Ti (as we now know them), the Andals (pre-invasion), the Hyrkooni, the Qartheen, some of these people began to appear at some point between the Dawn and the Long Night, and pretty quickly began to expand across land and sea. It was these men who likely fought off the Drowned God's people, but they had an open weakness to exploit. They were greatly disorganized, with petty kings in charge at best in places like Westeros and Northern Essos, and the Drowned God, as we'll continue to call him, wanted to exploit that, to beat his opponent. This option would become available when a few Children of the Forest would stumble across him.

In a recent Bran chapter (don't want to bother digging it up), Bran has a vision of him flying above the world. He sees many things, and travels in a relatively linear line. Going from west to east, he eventually reaches Asshai, but keeps going, and finds himself back at the wall. So yes, he's Christopher Columbus. Not only is this important in terms of Planetos being round, but it could mean that if you were to travel north, east, or northeast from Asshai, you'll eventually reach the wall. So, in a theory that can be related to this one, the Children of the Forest that would continue north in hopes of escaping the First Men when things looked their most dire could have stumbled upon Asshai, or more specifically, Stygai. Ever wonder why the White Walkers are called the "Others" in the books? Well, one possibility, is that they're the "other" Children of the Forest, who were transformed into very powerful ice-like, demon-like beings, capable of raising the dead of those who they kill to fight for them. Remember what I said about North of the Wall being particularly magical? Well, that's because it's closer to Asshai than we would think.

I know this is a lot already, like, way more than most people are going to want to read, but in sake of ease over speed to read, I'll roughly explain the area around this mysterious land between Asshai and the North. Blocked to the west by the Five Forts is the Grey Wastes, the Cannibal Sands, Land of the Shrykes, City of the Winged Men, Cities of the Bloodless Men, the City of Bonetown, and the Cities of K'Dath and Carcosa, both direct Lovecraftian references, as mentioned way, way back in this post.

One of these locations is particularly important, and now that some other things have been explained, it should be easier to put this into context. Carcosa is currently home to The Yellow Emperor--a claimant to the Yi Ti empire, who is a reference to Robert W. Chambers' The King in Yellow, which is very Lovecraftian in nature. Though not truly important to much, it's interesting to know that this exiled claimant fled to Carcosa, and that he is magically adept. Is he simply trying to make use of the magical power between Asshai and the North (if the theory holds up), or is he trying to make a deal with the unknown, as the Bloodstone Emperor may have?

Getting back on topic, the Drowned God made a pact with these "other" CotF. They would gain extreme powers that would threaten the world and surely allow them to dominate it, running out mankind, and the Drowned God would be winning. But what does the Drowned God get? He would be beating the Lord of Light, R'hllor. Hell, so that's why R'hllor sounds so damn Lovecraftian!

Note, that it's believed the Bloodstone Emperor was the one who ushered in the Long Night, so it's likely his rule and the pact between the Others and the Drowned God happened around the same time--that's not that important, but just so things are in perspective. R'hllor, possibly the Hastur the Unspeakable of this universe (though I don't fully understand the Hastur/Cthulhu dynamic other than they're brothers and don't get along), then fought back with Azor Ahai. Why, though, Azor Ahai is regarded as an Asshai'i, is unsure--but it should be noted that many cultures had their own Azor Ahai name, like Hyrkoon the Hero, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser. Melisandre, however, is another character in service to the Lord of Light who hails from Asshai. It's certainly possible that it's R'hllor in Stygai instead, and the Drowned God is underwater, but that doesn't line up so well with the rest of the theory. It's equally possible that the Asshai of later days were decent, light-loving people. On the flipside, the Ironborn worship the Drowned God, who would be the enemy they're meant to fight, if they are servants to R'hllor.

R'hllor wouldn't be able to hold this victory for long, however. His "servants," though seemingly indirect ones (though Lovecraftian Old Ones are known to be passive, subtle controllers and guiders), erected the Wall, similar to the Five Forts in Yi Ti, who may have served a similar function at some point far before. I would say it wasn't until the rise of the Valyrian Freehold that R'hllor pulled out ahead in the fight for the world. Think about it: no recorded "evils" between the Long Night ending and the collapse of the Valyrian Freehold, and more specifically, the death of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros, and even more specifically, the end of the Targaryen lineage.

It's probably important to know that in a recent interview about Beric Dondarrion in the future of the books, GRRM essentially said Beric is the light-version of the wights, the zombies the Others control. Like Jon, he has been revived, many times in fact, believed to be for a specific purpose. It's clear, however, that this version of a wight is far more conscious than its colder counterpart, as it retains more thought and personality, with only a "little piece" being taken away each time. There's many possibilities as to why the Other's wights are so much more unhuman, both in strengths and in personality, but my guess is that it's two takes on control. The Drowned God prefers outright domination of an individual and thus strips them of all individuality, personality, and weakness. R'hllor, however, prefers a subtler approach, wanting skill, tactic, and calculation in its subjects rather than a zerg horde. Alternatively, R'hllor could just be weaker at the moment, and reviving specific people is the best it can muster--which makes sense, if darkness is currently prevailing over light. "Why didn't R'hllor choose to resurrect Stannis, then?" - Well, that should be obvious, shouldn't it? Stannis wasn't really getting anywhere, he actually had to rely on other people on a lot of things. However, Stannis did something extremely important for R'hllor: he got Melissandre, a powerful sorceress with an affinity for the light, to meet Jon Snow, and in the show, and most likely the books, she will be needed to resurrect him. I'm sure I don't have to explain the "Jon Snow is the Prince Who Was Promised, otherwise known as Azor Ahai come again" theory to those who actually read all this.

I think I've got most of the theory out, and this is probably the farthest and most in-depth I've explained it. I've heard that a lot of people have had similar theories about this, but I haven't heard anything to the scale or measure as this, and there's a lot of things missing from those versions of the theory than what I put here. I wanted to put this into the form of a video a while back, so it'd be easier to explain this theory/put it out there for more people to hear, but it's so much stuff to make sure I include, lol. Hopefully if I do ever do it, I can refer back to this post. Thanks if you read this far, sorry if I made any weird spelling/grammar/formatting mistakes, I rushed this. :-)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 11:04:44 pm by Audiate »
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Offline Jelly

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2405 on: July 19, 2017, 03:52:41 pm »
Oh god I didn't think people would actually want to hear it. It's actually so fucking much to go into lol. Buckle up if you're going to dive in. The theory, potential book/universe spoilers:

Spoiler
So the theory doesn't really have any singular floor, just a lot of bridges that can almost form one. And that alone is a support to the theory, because if it was true, it's something GRRM wouldn't write in directly as it's something the in-world characters couldn't see or comprehend.

To start off, there's several locations in A World of Ice and Fire that are directly inspired by Lovecraftian lore. These include Carcosa, K'Dath, and Leng, all direct names from Lovecraft's work. Additionally, a super key location is Stygai, a corpse city further in the Ashlands of Asshai (which is also connected to this theory), which is extremely likely to be a reference to Stygia, a city from Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian, which is heavily related to shadows. Robert E. Howard was also a friend of H.P. Lovecraft, which is a minor connection, but fairly significant.

The second most obvious connection, which people have connected to Lovecraft since Book 1, is the Ironborn and the Drowned God. The Drowned God is almost explicitly referencing the most iconic character of the Lovecraftian universe: Cthulhu. However, there's a key bit of information about the Ironborn that is far more important to this theory. The Seastone Chair is the throne from which the Iron Islands was ruled, and the Iron Fleet obey whoever sits upon it (whoever is King, really). It's clearly a very symbolic thing, but it's what it's made out of that's important. The Seastone Chair is made of a mysterious, oily black stone, that happens to show up a lot in ASoIaF. In fact, it shows up all over the world.

In Northern Sothoryos, further inland than the abandoned city of Zamettar, is the abandoned city of Yeen. Nymeria took her Rhoynish refugees across the Summer Sea, looking to colonize any land that would allow them, but only disaster met them at Sothoryos. While Zamettar was the main city in Sothoryos that the Rhoynar attempted to rebuild, Nymeria sent several men to Yeen looking to colonize it. However, not much long later, it was apparent that Sothoryos's jungle climate, filled with dangerous predators, parasites, and pathogens, weren't worth sticking around for. The Zamettar settlers sailed up the delta towards Yeen to deliver the news that they were leaving, but when they arrived, Yeen was abandoned. There were no signs of struggle or conflict, things were abandoned where they were, but all life was gone. The jungle was growing inwards on the city, but refused to touch its foundation or buildings, which were made of oily, black stone.

Just north of Sothoyros, in the Basilisk Isles, is the Isle of Toads. The Isle, inhabited by people with webbed appendages who resemble fish, is home to a massive idol of a Toad, made of the same oily, black stone. In the northeast-most explored lands of the known world, are the Thousand Islands, a massive archipelago, where many things seem alien to what we see in Westeros. While not exactly fish like, the inhabitants of these islands are hairless, green-skinned xenophobes, who file their teeth into sharp points and have allegedly sacrificed sailors to their fish-headed gods. Under the water, the likenesses of these gods can be made out, carved into the rocks beneath the waves. However, interestingly, these people have an extreme phobia of water, and even with the threat of being killed, will never step into the water. From the wiki, "Some believe they are the remnants of a drowned kingdom whose buildings were submerged by the rising sea thousands of years ago."

South of these islands are the lands of the Jogos N'hai and, further south, Yi Ti. It is said that the Great Empire of the Dawn made up these two lands, and more, and was led by the God-on-Earth, the only son of the Maiden-Made-of-Light, a deity celebrated for life and happiness, and the Lion of Night, a god feared for death and destruction. The lineage of this empire is recorded to be small and direct, with one emperor to succeed after the last, each empire ruling for fewer years than the previous. It's said that the God-on-Earth ruled for 10,000 years. However, this empire ended with the Bloodstone Emperor, who killed his sister and usurped the throne. This emperor worshiped a black stone that had fallen from the sky, and was said to have started the Long Night. Things falling from the sky and being worshiped are heavily based on Lovecraftian lore, and this is a fairly significant association between the Long Night and the Black Stone, which I'll get back to later.

The black stone continues to pop up in a few more significant places. In Yi Ti, on the northeastern border, sits five massive towers of black stone, each seemingly impossible to man, as a single tower could hold about ten thousand men. Though not necessarily connected to this theory per se, in Westeros, a massive, ruined curtain wall made of black basalt is located in the Neck, the marshy border between The North and the rest of Westeros.

Finally, a very key part in this theory, is the Battle Isle. In Oldtown, beneath the Hightower (the massive tower you can see in Episode 1 of Season 7), is the Battle Isle, a massive structure of slick, black stone. I can not explain it better than I could paraphrase it from the wiki: "[It is] a square, labrynthine fortress of fused black stone. Its appearance is reminiscent of the dragonroads of the Valyrian Freehold and the Black Walls of Volantis [...] but there is no archaeological evidence of Valyrians at Oldtown. [...] The fortress is plain and unadorned, unlike the fused stone constructions of the Valyrians, who twisted and shaped the fused stone to ornament their buildings.

Archmaester Quillion suggests a connection between the fortress and the mazemakers of Lorath. The legends of Lorath claim the mazemakers were destroyed by something from the sea. Maester Theron, a bastard of Ironborn ancestry, suggests in his Strange Stone that there is a connection between the Hightower's base and the Seastone Chair, and that they were created by the Deep Ones, a legendary race created by the breeding of sea creatures with humans and which may have inspired the legends of merlings."

This is particularly crucial evidence, as it kind of blows the doors on the theory wide open. Deep Ones are a very direct reference to Lovecraft's mythology. Let's take a quick look at a chapter from A Feast for Crows, in which Brienne of Tarth is visiting Crackclaw Point. Dick Crabb, a former soldier (and potential descendant of House Crabb, previous owners of The Whispers, which is a sinister castle with a sinister history located on Crackclaw Point), warns the two about Squishers. From the wiki, again paraphrased: "From a distance squishers appear human, but according to legend their heads are larger than those of men and they have scales instead of hair. They have webbing between their fingers and toes, while their mouths have rows of green, needle-like teeth. A squisher's belly is white like that of a fish. Their name comes from the squish-squish sound made when they move on their webbed feet.

The First Men are said to have killed all of the squishers, but some residents of Crackclaw claim still squishers come by night to steal bad children, saving girls to breed with and boys to eat.

Some or all members of House Borrell (of Sweetsister, one of three "sister" islands located between the Vale and the North) have webbed hands and toes similar to the feet of ducks, which they call the 'mark.' It is unknown if this is a genetic disorder or if they have a connection with squishers.

It is likely the stories of Squishers are related to the Deep Ones."

Now things are falling a bit into place, right? Across the world, scattered about, are races that resemble both fish and man, and an oily black stone, too, is all over, sticking to primarily coastal regions. So, what does this mean? Well, it can be inferred that when looking at the regions the black stone and squishers or fish-like peoples appear, all of it seems to show up around water, or at least, not far from it. Crucially, it appears in places like Yeen, and Asshai, and Battle Isle. But these places are extremely far apart, so how exactly are they to be connected? No known empire has possessed lands from different continents, not even the Valyrian Freehold, as far as we know (excluding Dragonstone, which was barely in Westeros). So, are they different societies who happened to build with the same materials, or, were they built by a society or societies that live primarily underwater? Let's take a quick look at one of those places: Asshai.

Allegedly, Asshai's great walls could allegedly fit Volantis, Qarth, King's Landing, and Oldtown combined. That's several, several million people. By the time of AGoT, the city is barely populated compared to the size of it, and is only really home to people looking to make use of its magical capabilities. That's right, the city is particularly magical. In ASoIaF, there is apparently PLENTY of magic that has simply left the world since the fall of the Valyrian Freehold. Melissandre talks about this while at Castle Black; she can feel more magical potency from Beyond the Wall, just like she can feel more of it in other specific places of the world, too. But what could be the source of this magical strength in either of these places? Well, Beyond the Wall is going to have to be explained in a second, but I have a hypothesis of my own about Asshai. Stygai, I believe, is the R'lyeh of Planetos. In Lovecraft's Mythos, R'lyeh is the subterranean prison of Cthulhu located in the South Pacific. And this brings us to the first side of the battle: the Drowned God. Whether this unnamed, unseen, unconfirmed deity is particularly Cthulhu-like, the connection between Asshai and the "squishers" is amplified when taking Stygai into account. Stygai is a place not even the bravest of Asshai mages go--and Asshai is a place few people can survive to begin with, with its poisonous water, lack of healthy food supply, and constant shadow. Asshai, or Stygai, exudes corruption, but also magic. Often sinister magic, but magic nonetheless. And I believe that Stygai is the home of the Drowned God, who had sent his squishers across Planetos to build and conquer.

So, what happened to them? Well, like the Roman Empire, like Napoleonic France, like the Third Reich, like the USSR, things are bound to fail with enough resistance against them. Simply put, something came to put them in their place. And my bet on that, is man. Ghiscar, Rhoyne, the First Men of Westeros, the Yi Ti (as we now know them), the Andals (pre-invasion), the Hyrkooni, the Qartheen, some of these people began to appear at some point between the Dawn and the Long Night, and pretty quickly began to expand across land and sea. It was these men who likely fought off the Drowned God's people, but they had an open weakness to exploit. They were greatly disorganized, with petty kings in charge at best in places like Westeros and Northern Essos, and the Drowned God, as we'll continue to call him, wanted to exploit that, to beat his opponent. This option would become available when a few Children of the Forest would stumble across him.

In a recent Bran chapter (don't want to bother digging it up), Bran has a vision of him flying above the world. He sees many things, and travels in a relatively linear line. Going from west to east, he eventually reaches Asshai, but keeps going, and finds himself back at the wall. So yes, he's Christopher Columbus. Not only is this important in terms of Planetos being round, but it could mean that if you were to travel north, east, or northeast from Asshai, you'll eventually reach the wall. So, in a theory that can be related to this one, the Children of the Forest that would continue north in hopes of escaping the First Men when things looked their most dire could have stumbled upon Asshai, or more specifically, Stygai. Ever wonder why the White Walkers are called the "Others" in the books? Well, one possibility, is that they're the "other" Children of the Forest, who were transformed into very powerful ice-like, demon-like beings, capable of raising the dead of those who they kill to fight for them. Remember what I said about North of the Wall being particularly magical? Well, that's because it's closer to Asshai than we would think.

I know this is a lot already, like, way more than most people are going to want to read, but in sake of ease over speed to read, I'll roughly explain the area around this mysterious land between Asshai and the North. Blocked to the west by the Five Forts is the Grey Wastes, the Cannibal Sands, Land of the Shrykes, City of the Winged Men, Cities of the Bloodless Men, the City of Bonetown, and the Cities of K'Dath and Carcosa, both direct Lovecraftian references, as mentioned way, way back in this post.

One of these locations is particularly important, and now that some other things have been explained, it should be easier to put this into context. Carcosa is currently home to The Yellow Emperor--a claimant to the Yi Ti empire, who is a reference to Robert W. Chambers' The King in Yellow, which is very Lovecraftian in nature. Though not truly important to much, it's interesting to know that this exiled claimant fled to Carcosa, and that he is magically adept. Is he simply trying to make use of the magical power between Asshai and the North (if the theory holds up), or is he trying to make a deal with the unknown, as the Bloodstone Emperor may have?

Getting back on topic, the Drowned God made a pact with these "other" CotF. They would gain extreme powers that would threaten the world and surely allow them to dominate it, running out mankind, and the Drowned God would be winning. But what does the Drowned God get? He would be beating the Lord of Light, R'hllor. Hell, so that's why R'hllor sounds so damn Lovecraftian!

Note, that it's believed the Bloodstone Emperor was the one who ushered in the Long Night, so it's likely his rule and the pact between the Others and the Drowned God happened around the same time--that's not that important, but just so things are in perspective. R'hllor, possibly the Hastur the Unspeakable of this universe (though I don't fully understand the Hastur/Cthulhu dynamic other than they're brothers and don't get along), then fought back with Azor Ahai. Why, though, Azor Ahai is regarded as an Asshai'i, is unsure--but it should be noted that many cultures had their own Azor Ahai name, like Hyrkoon the Hero, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser. Melisandre, however, is another character in service to the Lord of Light who hails from Asshai. It's certainly possible that it's R'hllor in Stygai instead, and the Drowned God is underwater, but that doesn't line up so well with the rest of the theory. It's equally possible that the Asshai of later days were decent, light-loving people. On the flipside, the Ironborn worship the Drowned God, who would be the enemy they're meant to fight, if they are servants to R'hllor.

R'hllor wouldn't be able to hold this victory for long, however. His "servants," though seemingly indirect ones (though Lovecraftian Old Ones are known to be passive, subtle controllers and guiders), erected the Wall, similar to the Five Forts in Yi Ti, who may have served a similar function at some point far before. I would say it wasn't until the rise of the Valyrian Freehold that R'hllor pulled out ahead in the fight for the world. Think about it: no recorded "evils" between the Long Night ending and the collapse of the Valyrian Freehold, and more specifically, the death of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros, and even more specifically, the end of the Targaryen lineage.

It's probably important to know that in a recent interview about Beric Dondarrion in the future of the books, GRRM essentially said Beric is the light-version of the wights, the zombies the Others control. Like Jon, he has been revived, many times in fact, believed to be for a specific purpose. It's clear, however, that this version of a wight is far more conscious than its colder counterpart, as it retains more thought and personality, with only a "little piece" being taken away each time. There's many possibilities as to why the Other's wights are so much more unhuman, both in strengths and in personality, but my guess is that it's two takes on control. The Drowned God prefers outright domination of an individual and thus strips them of all individuality, personality, and weakness. R'hllor, however, prefers a subtler approach, wanting skill, tactic, and calculation in its subjects rather than a zerg horde. Alternatively, R'hllor could just be weaker at the moment, and reviving specific people is the best it can muster--which makes sense, if darkness is currently prevailing over light. "Why didn't R'hllor choose to resurrect Stannis, then?" - Well, that should be obvious, shouldn't it? Stannis wasn't really getting anywhere, he actually had to rely on other people on a lot of things. However, Stannis did something extremely important for R'hllor: he got Melissandre, a powerful sorceress with an affinity for the light, to meet Jon Snow, and in the show, and most likely the books, she will be needed to resurrect him. I'm sure I don't have to explain the "Jon Snow is the Prince Who Was Promised, otherwise known as Azor Ahai come again" theory to those who actually read all this.

I think I've got most of the theory out, and this is probably the farthest and most in-depth I've explained it. I've heard that a lot of people have had similar theories about this, but I haven't heard anything to the scale or measure as this, and there's a lot of things missing from those versions of the theory than what I put here. I wanted to put this into the form of a video a while back, so it'd be easier to explain this theory/put it out there for more people to hear, but it's so much stuff to make sure I include, lol. Hopefully if I do ever do it, I can refer back to this post. Thanks if you read this far, sorry if I made any weird spelling/grammar/formatting mistakes, I rushed this. :-)
that's an incredibly vivid theory, bloody hell audiate

Offline Audiate

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2406 on: July 19, 2017, 11:50:36 pm »
I actually missed some stuff, and there were some confusing typos that kind of made things confusing. Like I forgot to mention that Asshai is made of the same oily black stone, and that it's in the Shadowlands, not the Ashlands--that's from The Elder Scrolls.
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Offline BabyJesus

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2407 on: July 24, 2017, 03:59:01 am »
Spoiler
o no the sand snakes died. Such tragic so sad


Out of all the battles, that was the worst one imo
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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2408 on: July 24, 2017, 04:05:36 am »
Better then last week for sure.

Spoiler
o no the sand snakes died. Such tragic so sad


Out of all the battles, that was the worst one imo

Spoiler
Season 2-3 battles xD

Offline TheRedRedcoat

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2409 on: July 24, 2017, 09:18:02 am »
Spoiler
im really glad there was a naval battle, I thought it was stupid that both fleets could be so close in the blackwater and not fight one another

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2410 on: July 24, 2017, 11:48:10 am »
Spoiler
The thing that dragonstone sits on a fucking huge deposit of dragonglass shouldn't need an explanation: it's obsidian, obviously and Dragonstone jsut hapopens to be built on a dead volcano. It's barely suprising, especially if you've read the books.

The Dothraki horde and the unsullied army have landed around Dragonstone, obviously, since that's where Dany did land... It was suprising they chose to have Yara and that mad fucker meet so earl on but I guess it's because it's war and unexpected things happen. Dany can't have it too easy, seeing she is the largest threat on the continent. I didn't mind the Sand Snakes getting killed though... it does make me wonder waht role the Iron Islands will play, considering they're shit at prolonged land wars - The Unsullied and Dothraki would crush them in a hartbeat
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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2411 on: July 24, 2017, 05:20:26 pm »
Spoiler


"We have it on Dragonstone"

... No follow up

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2412 on: July 24, 2017, 05:53:16 pm »
Spoiler


"We have it on Dragonstone"

... No follow up

Fucking lol, they don't even pay attention to their own show. Even if he 'forgot' there's still Davos who didn't think to mention it.

Also...
Spoiler
I'm really worried not all the shit snakes got killed, I think one survived (I only counted four deaths maybe I miscounted I dunno)
so we might be lumbered with them still which is a shame.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:58:37 pm by StevenChilton »

Offline Audiate

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2413 on: July 24, 2017, 06:17:17 pm »
Tried to get this out last night but internet went out rip :(

@BJ
The battle wasn't bad imo, it was just short. They made the Ironborn WAY too Roman with the corvus and fireballs, though, that was bad.
kinda expected
I thought it was a weird episode that did nothing that wasn't already expected. I knew from the start that Grey Worm and Missandei would get a super awkward sex scene, I just didn't expect it to go for as weirdly long as it did. Out of all the sex scenes that weren't primarily dialogue, that felt the longest. Which is ironic because...

The Nymeria thing was also spoiled in the trailers, I think, because even though I wasn't thinking about it I knew Nymeria would show up the scene she did.
dumbest part
My main problem was the letters. Jon Snow got a letter from Tyrion, and because a specific sentence was used, he said "yup, I'm going!" Sure, Samwell also told him there was dragonglass at Dragonstone, but what idiot wouldn't at least consider that the crown captured a completely abandoned castle with huge strategic value for either the attacker or defender? Oh yeah, the fucking show writers. That's not what really bothered me, though. What was really painful to sit through was that Jon Snow had never heard of Daenerys Targaryen, I'm sure, and now believes that not only does she exist, but that she has an Unsullied army, a Dothraki army, the support of the Tyrells and Martells, and THREE FUCKING DRAGONS. It's totally possible that rumors eventually reached the common folk and some of them ended up going to the Wall, but what idiot (even though it's true) believes that a hot Targaryen girl is across the sea with an army the equivalent of an unbreakable shield and unstoppable sword--plus three dragons, which have been extinct since before anyone alive was born. This is like the real life equivalent of someone you met once years ago randomly texting you in the middle of the night "yo man i know this super hot girl with rich parents, shes funny, smart, and could easily make it to #1 pornstar on pornhub if she tried, and shes single bro, come to 123 asswipe road and go into the alley with the broken lights! oh btw, [insert the one thing you two connected over years ago] :)"

...it's super dumb. Also, is anyone else getting really tired of this format of throwing in a line by the Mormont girl at the end of every single debate? It seems like a cheap tactic to make people not think to much about what's going on and just say "d'aawww."

...and is anyone else realizing that the North essentially has an early version of Parliament? That's actually pretty cool.

I did like the Samwell and Jorah scene, I'm interested to see if there'll be any similar scene in the books, maybe with Jon Connington, but I kinda highly doubt it.
lovecraft theory
Another bit of the theory is that the Rhoynar Water Magic was another "gift" of the Drowned God,
 and that greyscale, which was, as legend says, created by a Rhoynar Prince, are other subjects of the Drowned God--mindless thralls just like the white walkers.

@Furrnox and SC
Samwell did mention that Stannis told him about the dragonglass last episode. Davos wouldn't have necessarily known there was dragonglass on the island, it's clear in the way Stannis said it that he never really understood why there was dragonglass on the island, just that there was, and it was only then that he realized it may have some application. It's just the type of person Stannis is though to say "I'll win this war, then I'll get the dragonglass and fight the next," which made him a terrible candidate for Azor Ahai v2. He was one of the players completely obsessed with the wars of man that the white walkers just remain stories still, just like Cersei, Tywin, Renly, Walder, etc.. Even though he was given confirmed reports about the wight in Castle Black, he just doesn't care because fighting the white walkers means not beating the Lannisters.

The Sand Snakes in the show are just three, in the books there's eight. The older woman, Ellaria Sand, Oberyn's paramour, she's not considered a Sand Snake, but she's the mother of the four youngest, but again, they're not really in the show. I think she's supposed to be the three show snakes' mother, though, so it won't be "too confusing." I'm of course kind of glad that the writers acknowledged that basically everyone hated the Sand Snakes, but killing two of three off isn't solving anything, really. It's unrepairable, because the Dornish storyline was just made so fucking weak last season. RIP Arianne Martell, and her/Dorne's pretty awesome book plotline.

But hey, at least they kept the cutest snake. I'd let her poison me any day.




Not to defend that retarded "you need a bad pussy" line. That was dumb. She's just a cutie, and I like her hair in the new season.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 07:02:56 pm by Audiate »
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Offline Prince_Eugen

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Re: Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)
« Reply #2414 on: July 24, 2017, 07:13:36 pm »
Spoiler
The battle was clearly expected, only one thing i believed, that Daenerys will throw main forces at Kings Landing, just because of her will to reach the capital as fast as possible, which is dumb. Death of Sand snakes, nah, i dont care tbh. Now it's interesting, how Lannisters would act in situation with Casterly, going in field against much more powerfull enemy wil be a suicide, and as long as we see on trailer, the seige will brake to city streets, the battle will be, though it could be a trap for The unsullied.