Author Topic: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.  (Read 11639 times)

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Offline Thunderstormer

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As i said in the other thread, for the upcoming patch there is a chance we will do some balancing if there is a consensus on the issue.  Discuss to your hearts content.  Please be civil. 

because this is a serious thread, please don't fill it with "this should of been done years ago"  or things like that.   What has been done is done.  I will just remove those comments.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 12:19:52 am by Vincenzo »
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Offline Knightmare

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Re: Help wanted for upcomming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2017, 12:18:21 am »
Giving health and damage to Foot Guards,lights etc should be increased I think,the speed is noticeable but the damage inflicted is the same by every unit and foot guards would still die in 1 hit just like any other normal unit so they are rendered useless.Giving this consideration might help but just my suggestion.

Offline Vincenzo

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Re: Help wanted for upcomming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2017, 12:19:00 am »
I'm Vincenzo and I endorse this message. Thank you. God bless.

Offline Kore

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Re: Help wanted for upcomming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2017, 12:51:29 am »
I'm Vincenzo and I endorse this message. Thank you. God bless.

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Offline tired

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2017, 02:11:23 am »
IMO officer sword speed is too fast, it can be a spamming weapon. So I would lower that a bit.

Offline Thunderstormer

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2017, 06:17:55 am »
alright, i thought i would make a quick post so people can discuss cav balance.  many people have talked to me over steam, but i would like their to be  a civil debate here about it. 

what are your thoughts on the current cav balance?  any one class too strong, or too weak?  are things fine as is?

i will kick it off

personally, i wouldn't mind seeing dragons getting an athletics buff.   

i wouldn't mind giving HC something as well.  extra horse health, maybe a little more armor, maybe their sword back.   HC tend to be the strongest when they are bunched up but don't fare too well in 1 cav v 1 cav fights.  and they cant dictate the terms of their fights like hussars can. 

a good lancer is theoretically unstoppable, so they are fine imo as most people cant do well all the time.  teamwork kills them quickly. 

Hussars have been in a good spot imo.   they can dictate their fights while still being able to take on the other classes fairly well.  imo it has been the best class for a very long time. 


another topic but similar.  buffs.   for a long time, the horn/flag buffs on horses has been meh.  you need to basically give up one person fighting to give the buff, and only a few people nearby will get it.  should the range be changed, or should the person rather than the flag/horn give the buff instead, much like the officers do currently. it would make the trumpet and flag pointless gameplay wise.   should they just be left as is?

now the officer cav buffs i dont care much for(mainly hussar officers).  the buffs they give themselves makes them very strong.  stronger than someone who is not an officer.  i wouldn't mind the buffs just going to nearby teammates, and not to the officer themselves.  sad thing is, there are quite a few people who rely on the crutch that the buffs provide.   it is pretty clear when you see them do worse when they aren't an officer. 

anyways, thoughts? 


edit.  there are some heavy cav that have different armor #s and some of the heavy cav swords have different lenghts.   i wouldn't mind making all the HC swords equal length.  seems odd the same looking sword has more range.     as for the armor, that one is more open for debate. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 06:23:17 am by Thunderstormer »
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Offline Risk_

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2017, 06:23:21 am »
i am not sure if this a thing but I have always found it harder to kill a horse that is of heavy cav. You can 1 shot a light cav horse but heavy cav takes more hits. Not sure if I am right but have noticed it; maybe lowering the hp down? idk

Offline Thunderstormer

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2017, 06:42:21 am »
i am not sure if this a thing but I have always found it harder to kill a horse that is of heavy cav. You can 1 shot a light cav horse but heavy cav takes more hits. Not sure if I am right but have noticed it; maybe lowering the hp down? idk
Heavy horses have more HP and armor than a light horse.(depends on the horse in question though as different horses have different #s) 

they use to be really really tanky where only  a head shot/stab would reliably one shot them.  they could run down groups of people and be unstoppable because you couldn't do enough dps to the group to stop them.       now a days a single shot has a good one shot to kill, and a decent stab as well. i feel like you are lucky if your horse isn't one hit killed.   imo anyways.  their swords and the horses were both nerfed in the last patch.   im not asking to go back to the super tanks.   i would just like them to get a little stronger.  my preference anyways. 
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Offline Lilja Mariasdóttir

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 12:49:50 pm »
A few thoughts:

1. I would not start to mess with heavy cavalry, lancers and stuff. This would need later adjusting, but as it looks like a "final patch", experimenting would be wrong.
If lancers would be so overpowered, how people tend to say, there would be more lancerregiments out there and people would play lancers in tournaments. They do not.
Heavy cavalry has advantages and disadvantages, and in tournaments they always played a role, a much smaller than hussars, but yet.

2. Hussars are the high level competitive used cavalryunit, making every hussar the same would be a big plus for the competitive part of the community. At the moment french hussars have longer sabres than other nations, if I am not mistaken.

3. It might not be historic, but think about giving britisch dragoons a better gun, right now dragoon regiments often complain and play hussars, when UK is chosen in a Linebattle.

4. Add rifles to france. Adding a complete new class would mean some work of course. Right now as admin I try to avoid france most of the time, and I assume others do that aswell, as the signed up rifle unit cant play their rifles. Often it ends in bad mood of the regiment and more work for the admin, as they take lights then and try to sneak bajonets in "accidently" and so on.
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Offline Thunderstormer

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 02:43:06 pm »
a few quick thoughts before i hop off for the night.  ill check in later in the day.

Quote
1. I would not start to mess with heavy cavalry, lancers and stuff. This would need later adjusting, but as it looks like a "final patch", experimenting would be wrong.
If lancers would be so overpowered, how people tend to say, there would be more lancerregiments out there and people would play lancers in tournaments. They do not.
Heavy cavalry has advantages and disadvantages, and in tournaments they always played a role, a much smaller than hussars, but yet.
well the tweaks would be very minor really.  not like a complete overhaul.  at least not the ones i am referring to.  while i cant promise anything, i would like to have a test server where people can test things out, find any bugs we missed, or may of added when fixing other stuff.  it could also be useful for any balance changes if there are any. 

when i was talking about lancers, i was referring to a player or some players who are very very skilled at them.(more than i ever was with them)   If played properly, other cav in a 1v1 fight wouldn't be able to get in range of them, or hit them.  Now, playing at that level, fight after fight, especially in a cav gf, isn't easy, and even the best players make mistakes.  They are very vulnerable if they make a mistake, thanks to not being able to block with a lance.  with teamwork, you can really shut them down, thanks to their low "defence".   Hussars are move forgiving, and imo, easier to learn.  same with heavy cav to an extent. 

there are some lancer regs out there, probably the most notable being the 1erPLG.  there have been a few others on the NA side, where cav regs(and not detachments, because those are slaves to their lines) are not that common.  It has been a while since i been to an EU LB or the cav gf servers.    i wouldn't know how things are now a days when it comes to what kind of cav regs they have.  if memory serves in the past, EU didn't like lancers and even banned them from some events.  which of course would have a lasting effect over the years. 

Quote
Hussars are the high level competitive used cavalryunit, making every hussar the same would be a big plus for the competitive part of the community. At the moment french hussars have longer sabres than other nations, if I am not mistaken.
i will look at the #s.   ill try and change any of the light cav swords to be the same # if any are off.  like the heavy cav, to me it just makes sense to have the same range for each class on their respective  swords.    i believe there may be some units as well,(prussian cur as an example) that do not get any armor like other nations do with their similar unit.  unless of course this was all intended in the first place.  i will look into it anyways. 

Quote
3. It might not be historic, but think about giving britisch dragoons a better gun, right now dragoon regiments often complain and play hussars, when UK is chosen in a Linebattle.

4. Add rifles to france. Adding a complete new class would mean some work of course. Right now as admin I try to avoid france most of the time, and I assume others do that aswell, as the signed up rifle unit cant play their rifles. Often it ends in bad mood of the regiment and more work for the admin, as they take lights then and try to sneak bajonets in "accidently" and so on.
adding new weapons is not out the window, but idk if its likely.  if more people would like it, maybe it can happen.  i can ask vince and see what he says.  most events i go to let the french light inf act as rifles with their "cav muskets"(more like carbines).   they dont get the same cav musket russians do.   with muskets, it varies. some still let them act as rifles, others make them act like light inf. 



as i am tired, sorry in advance for any poor grammar, or other funny stuff.  wanted to get one last post in before i called it good for the night.
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Offline Nappa1

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2017, 02:51:12 pm »
Please, I beg you.
Reduce the amount of health/armor or whatever that sailors have. It just does not make any sense.
They are nearly completely naked but have as much armor/HP as cuirassiers and other heavily armored cav units.
Instead you could maybe increase their damage with certain weapons above other classes but reduce their defenses considering that they're, you know, NAKED.

Thanks

Offline Chemiespook

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2017, 09:46:55 am »
A few thoughts I had,

I think the marine class could be a little more "unique", as having the same properties as line infantry feels a tiny bit iffy to me for a marine. I guess as a suggestion, maybe a slight buff like "better accuracy while shooting/moving" but a slight nerf like "increased 'presenting' or 'draw weapon' time". These are just some ideas I'm creating at 12:40 am, so maybe they're shit and I just can't tell. However, I feel adding a bit of uniqueness to them would fit well, especially considering their availability in regards to nations with marines.

Russia buff. Or at least a new Russian unit. Only 3 line units (one being foot guard) feels unfair, and the partizani/militia cannot be used competitively. Seeing more unique Russia would be really interesting to me, even if it just means adjusting something. I understand that Russia has very powerful cavalry, but it just doesn't make up for the lack of line infantry diversity. I understand it's hard to make an entire new unit and would take a lot of work and dedication, but Russia just feels super iffy to me.

As everyone else has said, I disagree with the extra sailor armor.

There's a few animation glitches while holding the "A" key and using melee, however I noticed a lot of people use this for melee, so fixing it might get some blow back. However, I feel it's annoying more than anything else, and feels like an unfair exploit of a bug. It doesn't fit in with other melee tactics.

Because this is possibly the last patch, I think adding a couple new songs to the music playing roster for musicians would be cute. Nothing to do with balancing, but just my two cents I guess.

Thanks you for keeping this game updated, and reaching out to the community. It's truly appreciated.

Offline Xethos

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 11:18:28 am »
Russia has the best faction roster in the game. I'd rather see Thomas's four-year-old suggestion of improving the Prussians by giving the Landwehr cav muskets or pikes and maybe giving something militia-like to Austria. And every faction ought to have at least one unit with vodka bottles.

My thoughts on balancing . . . change heavy horse armor to 18 and boost maneuverability to 40 (from 37). Decrease the hussar horse maneuverability to 48 (from 50). Increase medium horse and lancer horse maneuverability to 42 (from 39 and 41). Standardize heavy sword range to 111 (they range from 110-112) and light cav sabre range to 102 (range from 101-102). Give dragoons 3 athletics, but decrease riding skill by 2 (3 for regular dragoons, 4 for light dragoons). Boost riding skill by 1 for cuirassiers and lancers (to 7) and by two for hussars (to 8 ). Change all cav sword weights to equal infantry sword weights (1.5). Most importantly, guarantee the kindjal for Cossack cav and give them a vodka bottle

All of this requires testing, of course.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 11:23:32 am by Thunderstormer »
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04:25:13 - [Cup_of_Tea] Hey Xethos! I bet you're a gentleman of less than reputable quality!

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 11:43:51 am »
The addition of Russian lights (and for that matter, addition of lights to all factions missing it) would be cool but I doubt this is something that you guys want to do at this point.

Offline NickyJ

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Re: Help wanted for upcoming Napoleonic Wars patch, balancing thread.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 12:16:38 am »
The addition of Russian lights (and for that matter, addition of lights to all factions missing it) would be cool but I doubt this is something that you guys want to do at this point.
This, this, absolutely this. I can't count the number of times people have complained about line infantry units being used as lights. Adding line infantry muskets as a weapon option for skirmishers would be enough to solve it. I tried doing that with scripts before, but unfortunately, my scripting skills are lacking.