The General Political Thread

[Theodin]

Capability doesn't matter. Communism is capable of producing peaceful economic cooperation but has utterly failed in reality to achieve both, just like Islam has failed to provide peace.

[Toffee]

Capability doesn't matter. Communism is capable of producing peaceful economic cooperation but has utterly failed in reality to achieve both, just like Islam has failed to provide peace.

It hasn't failed in many areas though. The majority of Muslims in the UK live peacefully. Seems to me that they've succeeded.

[Toffee]

If you say that Islam has no central leader then how can you classify it as more violent when it is not represented by any one group in particular? My point about the warlords is there have been many famous Christians who have been just as violent. RADICAL Islam is more violent but isn't a true representation in the eyes of many and you should properly differentiate between the two, Islam is a central religion capable of being practiced in peace (just like Christianity).You're constantly using the belief that violence is sowed into their teachings, but this is no different to Christianity which has many violent passages in the bible.

Sure Islam's founder was violent, but many have come after him who are not so. Saladin was a warrior, but showed mercy to Christian prisoners whilst his enemies were slaughtering Muslims by the thousands. Radical Islam is certainly a problem but it is important that we learn to differentiate between a moderate view of Islam and the extreme versions of it. There have been periods throughout history where Christianity has been equally as extreme but it's just that it isn't as prevalent within modern society. Just like Christianity with different versions of beliefs, Moderate Muslims should be allowed to be differentiated from the radical aspects of Muslim society. You wouldn't label a protestant and a catholic together in terms of view points so don't do the same for Muslims. We need to be wary of radicalisation within Islam, not all of the religion as it is not fundamentally any more evil than any other religion in the world. I think it's important to correct yourself with the statement *radical Islam is more violent, not Islam in it's entirety.

[William]

If you say that Islam has no central leader then how can you classify it as more violent when it is not represented by any one group in particular? My point about the warlords is there have been many famous Christians who have been just as violent. RADICAL Islam is more violent but isn't a true representation in the eyes of many and you should properly differentiate between the two, Islam is a central religion capable of being practiced in peace (just like Christianity).You're constantly using the belief that violence is sowed into their teachings, but this is no different to Christianity which has many violent passages in the bible.

Sure Islam's founder was violent, but many have come after him who are not so. Saladin was a warrior, but showed mercy to Christian prisoners whilst his enemies were slaughtering Muslims by the thousands. Radical Islam is certainly a problem but it is important that we learn to differentiate between a moderate view of Islam and the extreme versions of it. There have been periods throughout history where Christianity has been equally as extreme but it's just that it isn't as prevalent within modern society. Just like Christianity with different versions of beliefs, Moderate Muslims should be allowed to be differentiated from the radical aspects of Muslim society. You wouldn't label a protestant and a catholic together in terms of view points so don't do the same for Muslims. We need to be wary of radicalisation within Islam, not all of the religion as it is not fundamentally any more evil than any other religion in the world. I think it's important to correct yourself with the statement *radical Islam is more violent, not Islam in it's entirety.

Chrisitianity literally has a reformation which was people looking at the Bible and the bad stuff in it and saying "no, that's bad, we won't follow that". The secular nature of Europe that followed far outweighs any attempt of Islamic reform. Most modern Muslim reformers are threatened by other Muslims or shunned because of their beliefs. Even "secular" leaning countries like Jordan still convict people for crimes against Islam such as the depiction of the Warlord Prophet 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahed_Hattar

[Toffee]

Yes Christianity had a reformation but many Muslims have rejected certain teachings of radical Islam which they don't want to adhere to. In the same way Christianity did. There may be no attempt at Islamic reform as a collective but, as Conway stated, there is no central leader figure within the Muslim world which makes it harder to implement an official reform. Instead Muslims have reformed in other ways which lead to the moderate Muslims we see within our society today. Just because a certain group of Muslims has a problem with them that doesn't make them any less Muslim. You're making it sound like you're trying to argue that moderate Muslims aren't Muslims at all now to constantly try and frame the entirety of Islam as a bad thing when it clearly isn't. None of this is as black and white as you make it out to be.

[Toffee]

So it's moderate Muslims who have committed all these terrorist attacks is it? Because they are of the same religion they deserve to be put int the same boat. It's not all Muslims who crashed those planes into the twin towers but radical Muslims. As I said you need to differentiate between different aspects of a religion rather than generalisizing it

And I'm glad you think children being slaughtered by Christian soldiers in the streets isn't the fault of the Christians. I thought for a minute there we might have done something wrong.

[William]

Moderate Muslims are the sort of people that wouldn't mind if a radical muslim killed you. They just don't say it out loud.

[Toffee]

That's just ridiculous William your statement is based on personal bias and prejudice and has no proof to back it up. Leading Muslims in the UK have condemned terrorist attacks and have refused to bury the terrorists on their sacred grounds with completely disproved what you've just said.

[Toffee]

Yes Conway you are correct that there is a large number of radical Muslims which is why we need to encourage moderate Muslims rather than putting them down and branding them all as terrorists and as violent. You say that Muslims hate us and yet the number that Ben Shapiro gives still leaves 920 million Muslims who aren't radicalised. But you're still labelling them all in such a way?

[Toffee]

You've said that Islam is a violent religion which is a massive generalization seeing as a gigantic portion of Islam is not radicalized. Moderate Islam has more followers than Radical and should be assessed differently. It's like me calling all Christians anti-gay even though there are large portions which are not, it's factually incorrect.

[Toffee]

I didn't say just Catholicism I said Christianity. I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.

[William]

I didn't say just Catholicism I said Christianity. I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.

The difference is that Christians don't take the Bible literally. They had a reformation to basically stop using the Old Testament as law and instead focus on the New Testament which is based on Jesus.

Catholics/Christians don't kill gays or atheists. They may not agree with them but they don't kill them like Muslims.

Islam is based on the Quran and there has been no reformation so people still take it pretty seriously, especially clerics. I don't see Catholic Priests calling for us to cast down our enemies while on the flipside, radical Muslim clerics exist all over the place and are some of the most antisemetic and homophobic people on the planet.

Jesus, a chill guy who saved people and showed people a new way of life where you respect your neighbor.
Mohammad, a warlord with tons of wives, including children, who brutally murdered opposition and spread his faith through the sword and not by simple word of mouth and preaching.

Do you understand why people are naturally resistant to Islam? Quit being such an apologist and just accept that Islam is the worst religion to exist on this planet in its current state with the current amount of followers. Christianity allows for you to even have free speech. Why don't you bow towards Mecca because I'm sure the Christian Franks were Islamophobic for beating the Moors and saving Christendom.

[Edwin]

You guys are wasting your time. "Toffee" is the very definition of "virtue-signalling SJW".

He's gone from ardent advocate of gay and trans rights to staunch apologist for Islam. A pure contrarian who will never accept he's taken the wrong stance on something.

[Toffee]

When did I say I was for every aspect of Islam? I just think it's important to differentiate between moderate Muslims (who don't kill gays or mistreat women etc) and radical Islam. It's not that hard to understand. You think all Muslims kill gays William then I don't really know what to say seeing as a lot seem to manage to live in western societies without doing so. Not being able to see what differentiates a moderate Muslim from the radicals just highlights how bad fearmongering has gotten to you. There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world and the majority of them aren't radicals. Sure there are a lot that have been radicalised (which I agree needs to be addressed) not being able to differentiate between them and moderates is simply ignoring truths since somehow Muslims seem to be able to live in our society every day without blowing us all up as you would have everyone believe.

Jesus was a good guy, we know that but many of his followers weren't and if you think that there haven't been Cristian figures calling for he destruction of their enemies then you need to read a history book. And Gordo why are you using quotations of Toffee and virtue signalling sjw? It just looks ridiculous. I've noticed you tend to spurt that phrase out whenever I disagree with you since you can't seem to form an argument without it.

[Edwin]

Jesus was a good guy, we know that but many of his followers weren't and if you think that there haven't been Cristian figures calling for he destruction of their enemies then you need to read a history book. And Gordo why are you using quotations of Toffee and virtue signalling sjw? It just looks ridiculous. I've noticed you tend to spurt that phrase out whenever I disagree with you since you can't seem to form an argument without it.

I'd usually frown upon using such labels but I'll make an exception for a walking cliché such as yourself.

There's been pages of evidence showing you the nature of Islam yet you always default on the same "Christianity does it too!!!" pathetic counter-argument.

I'm not using Christianity as a scapegoat at all

I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.

Hmmmm...