Author Topic: Stand with Hillary  (Read 7978 times)

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Offline Nipplestockings

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2014, 09:04:02 pm »
Nah, her age isn't a problem. We've had a lot of old presidents in the past, and it doesn't really figure into peoples voting decisions. Ultimately it will just come down to how well the media plays each side.

Offline Salt

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2014, 09:08:27 pm »
Nah, her age isn't a problem. We've had a lot of old presidents in the past, and it doesn't really figure into peoples voting decisions. Ultimately it will just come down to how well the media plays each side.
We'll know after NH and Iowa.
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Offline Shredder

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2014, 09:37:43 pm »
Takes money from companies to sell her vote
I hate to say it, but a majority of politicians do this. The only priority for any politician, whether it be Obama, Mitch McConnell, or your local rep, is to be re-elected. In order to do that, you serve the interests of those who give you money.

Only 5-8% of adult voters in America donate to campaigns. Only .5% of Americans adults donate more than $200 (considered big donors.) However, that .5% constitutes over 65% of all campaign donations. More money usually = winner. 95% re-election rate in Congress, with the margin of victory over 65%.

In 2012, Obama raised over $715,677,692. 33% of that came from small individual contributions. (Remember there is a limit as to how much an individual can give to a candidate per election cycle.) While 68% of his campaign money came from large contributions. Let's not forget the SuperPACs that let anyone (including business') to spend any and all money they want.

Every politician does this, because if they don't, they'll be outspent out of office.

All stats came from the Center for Responsive Politics. https://www.opensecrets.org/

(I just used Obama as an example, you could do the same thing for Romney or any other Rep/Dem)
I know, that's why electing Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is essential. They understand this recurring issue and how to deal with economics properly tbh.

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« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 09:39:26 pm by Shredder »

Offline Nipplestockings

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2014, 09:51:37 pm »
>Electing a socialist
>Electing a Jew
>1945+71
I seriously hope etc.

Offline Shredder

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2014, 10:06:49 pm »
Can we just eliminate the presidency altogether? xD

Offline joer5835

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2014, 10:18:38 pm »
Can we just eliminate the presidency altogether? xD

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Offline Salt

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2014, 10:27:27 pm »
Spoiler
Takes money from companies to sell her vote
I hate to say it, but a majority of politicians do this. The only priority for any politician, whether it be Obama, Mitch McConnell, or your local rep, is to be re-elected. In order to do that, you serve the interests of those who give you money.

Only 5-8% of adult voters in America donate to campaigns. Only .5% of Americans adults donate more than $200 (considered big donors.) However, that .5% constitutes over 65% of all campaign donations. More money usually = winner. 95% re-election rate in Congress, with the margin of victory over 65%.

In 2012, Obama raised over $715,677,692. 33% of that came from small individual contributions. (Remember there is a limit as to how much an individual can give to a candidate per election cycle.) While 68% of his campaign money came from large contributions. Let's not forget the SuperPACs that let anyone (including business') to spend any and all money they want.

Every politician does this, because if they don't, they'll be outspent out of office.

All stats came from the Center for Responsive Politics. https://www.opensecrets.org/

(I just used Obama as an example, you could do the same thing for Romney or any other Rep/Dem)
I know, that's why electing Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren is essential. They understand this recurring issue and how to deal with economics properly tbh.

wolf-pac.com ::)
[close]
But is Warren electable? I say this because 1. She's only a first term Senator with not a lot of "mainstream" attention (unless that's changed in the last few months?) 2. She seems to be incredibly hard-line liberal (based off of what I've read about her). That's great for the Dem base, but how does she get the votes that actually matter? (Independents in Ohio, Florida, ect.) It's great if you think she has the stuff to fix the broken system, but if we elected people based off their stances and not the media perception, we wouldn't have this mess of a system to begin with.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2014, 10:28:43 pm »
If you didn't have the craziest and least logical election system for a president in the entire world, maaaybe stuff would be better.

Offline Salt

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2014, 10:32:07 pm »
If you didn't have the craziest and least logical election system for a president in the entire world, maaaybe stuff would be better.
It's an elitist system at its heart. We have the power to fix it, but a large portion of the population either doesn't fully understand why it's elitist, or don't care to change it.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2014, 10:33:28 pm »
It's a system designed to withstand change in the electorate. Go figure.

Offline Shredder

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2014, 10:37:08 pm »
Obama ran as a newly elected senator, and people criticized him for that. They also said he could never win because he was too left of Clinton, but he did. That said, it may be because of the Bush frenzy we were in that everyone wanted something new. My only fear is that people view Obama as the embodiment of progressive ideals when really he isn't, and they could view it as a failure of progressive politics. History does kind of tend to favor something different in general.

However unlikely it seems at first, we shouldn't have to abandon it altogether. Unfortunately most Americans get their news from places like Fox, CNN, or MSNBC (or not at all), which push these establishment candidates up there. I remember MSNBC doing an exact segment on how Warren is too radical.

Offline Salt

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2014, 10:45:38 pm »
Obama ran as a newly elected senator, and people criticized him for that. They also said he could never win because he was too left of Clinton, but he did.
Yes, but you need to remember that Obama was considered a "Rising Star" in the Democratic Party back before the election. Warren hasn't really made much news in the mainstream. I'd be willing to bet that most voters, even in the Dem party, don't know who she is. Also, it's worth mentioning that Obama got a massive boost by winning Iowa and coming close in NH.

It's not impossible for someone like Warren to be elected in the future, but if she plans on running in 2016, I think she'll only serve to make Hillary look more appealing to the moderate voters.
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Offline Shredder

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2014, 10:51:38 pm »
I'm not sure if she disclosed that she would even pursue running too. I see your point, but that's why I feel that Sanders and Warren need to be known.

;D

Offline Augy

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2014, 10:57:29 pm »
Both parties are rotten – how could they not be, considering the complete infestation of the political system by corporate money on a scale that now requires a presidential candidate to raise well over a billion dollars to be competitive in the general election. It's not just the corporate money either, there are hundreds of lobbying organizations for special interest groups.

They had elections in USSR and Nazi Germany too, with candidates that where chosen by the people that really ran the place so no matter what person won, their man was in power. I'm taking extreme cases but there's essentially the same thing going on.

Most people simply let their friends, co-workers, talk show hosts, and the propaganda (funded by the powerful) tell them how to think and how to vote.
Something like half the population won't even read one book per year. Of the other half, how many actually read anything enlightening or educational rather than just recreational.

I will say however, the masses deserve more of the blame just for being so stupid and gullible that they can be deluded into believing that what is so obviously NOT in their own self interest actually somehow IS in their self interest and believing that the rich and powerful elite actually care about the welfare of the masses. With just a small investment of time and effort almost anyone can learn what is really going on, but only a fraction of regular people do.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: Stand with Hillary
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2014, 12:02:38 am »
Augy, we figured out the American political system is rotten 5 pages ago.